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  1. #1
    Boisterously Confused
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    Default Marvel's Archenemies: how has the beef between the pro/antagonists changed?

    The Red Skull's issues with Captain America have been pretty consistent since they first met. They each fervently represent irreconcilable philosophies, plus The Skull is spitefully vengeful.

    On the other hand, the relationship between Magneto and Prof. X looked nothing like X-Men no. 1 by the time Xavier bit the dust.

    These examples provoke two questions from me:
    • What are some of the long-running archenemy pairings whose dynamics have changed, and why was that for better or worse?
    • Alternatively, what are some of the long-running animosities that have stayed the same, and what's given them that staying power?

  2. #2
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Iron Man's beef with The Mandarin has also been pretty consistent, no matter how many times they've revamped the latter.

  3. #3
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Iron Man's beef with The Mandarin has also been pretty consistent, no matter how many times they've revamped the latter.
    Beat me to it. There battles have always been from their differing perspectives and really has not changed.
    " I've learned that free will isn't a gift-it's muscle that needs to be exercised-and only when it's in peak condition-is a man truly awake" TONY STARK

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Iron Man's beef with The Mandarin has also been pretty consistent, no matter how many times they've revamped the latter.
    What's made it work over all these decades?

  5. #5
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    What's made it work over all these decades?
    Presumably lack of competition. Iron Man has a pretty weak rogues gallery.

  6. #6
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Presumably lack of competition. Iron Man has a pretty weak rogues gallery.
    And I mean...Mandarin's got 10 rings, each with different abilities. That's pretty overpowered compared to the other villains Iron Man fights .

  7. #7

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    making prominent bad guys "misunderstood" or anti-heroes after years of mayhem and murder (attempted and completed) is abominable to me. I don't accept it.

  8. #8
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    either a lot or a little has changed, it's all a matter of perspective



    tag the movie made me cry

  9. #9
    Amazing Member Knight27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    making prominent bad guys "misunderstood" or anti-heroes after years of mayhem and murder (attempted and completed) is abominable to me. I don't accept it.
    I agree with this so much. I wouldn't even mind it THAT much if the "redemption arcs" weren't written so poorly.

  10. #10
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    Does redemption really happen that often outside the X-Books?

  11. #11
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    Does redemption really happen that often outside the X-Books?
    Check out Spider-Man sometime. A lot of his enemies have gone straight, or at least made the attempt. Some have made it work. Others . . . not so much.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  12. #12
    Mighty Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Check out Spider-Man sometime. A lot of his enemies have gone straight, or at least made the attempt. Some have made it work. Others . . . not so much.
    or go right to superior Spiderman and see one on his main bad guys taking a crack at it.

    Black Cat has been if not gone straight at least slanted.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    making prominent bad guys "misunderstood" or anti-heroes after years of mayhem and murder (attempted and completed) is abominable to me. I don't accept it.
    I mean, it works sometimes. I think an interesting example is Loki, who is a character who has gotten very lucky to have not just good parts in a couple of great movies, but who's also had a lot of great writers and editors there to make the comics work.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    And I mean...Mandarin's got 10 rings, each with different abilities. That's pretty overpowered compared to the other villains Iron Man fights .
    That's not why he's lasted. He's lasted because he is fundamentally an image of wealth and savagery, whereas Tony Stark is an image of wealth and civilization. An Ares vs Athena dynamic. The rings are at once the jewelry of a rich aristocrat, and the brass knuckles of a pimp or thug. This makes The Mandarin a kind of exaggeration of Stark's original flaws as a rich, hedonistic, warmonger. The Mandarin buys, the Mandarin conquers, the Mandarin exploits.

    This makes him in many ways to Tony Stark what Oswald Cobblepot or Black Mask is to Batman, but worse, because Mandarin is a sort of living reminder of original sin in a way Penguin or Black Mask can't be for Batman.


  15. #15
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageturner View Post
    or go right to superior Spiderman and see one on his main bad guys taking a crack at it.

    Black Cat has been if not gone straight at least slanted.
    Good points there. I'd also throw in Venom.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    That's not why he's lasted. He's lasted because he is fundamentally an image of wealth and savagery, whereas Tony Stark is an image of wealth and civilization. An Ares vs Athena dynamic. The rings are at once the jewelry of a rich aristocrat, and the brass knuckles of a pimp or thug. This makes The Mandarin a kind of exaggeration of Stark's original flaws as a rich, hedonistic, warmonger. The Mandarin buys, the Mandarin conquers, the Mandarin exploits.

    This makes him in many ways to Tony Stark what Oswald Cobblepot or Black Mask is to Batman, but worse, because Mandarin is a sort of living reminder of original sin in a way Penguin or Black Mask can't be for Batman.

    That's actually a very good point about the dynamic between the Mandarin and Tony Stark and how they play off each other.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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