Mcu vs dceu mixed battle:

[The Arbiter]

Technically, a black hole is not matter. It's an intense gravitational force. The source of a black hole is matter but not the black hole itself.

I was getting tired of writing "singularity" lol. In official charts on the "composition of the universe" (yes, these exist) they are defined as "ordinary matter". The actual visible/non-visible portion is not matter obviously, but in order to create that, intense concentrations of super collapsed matter are totally a requirement.

[The Arbiter]

All transmutation is not the same as some people can only effect energy, some only biological materials, and other high end people do both. Stranges feat while against a black hole(even though it didn't act like a actual black hole of that size would) doesn't mean he could transmute Thor into butterflies or Iron Man into water without doing something similar.

If Strange could easily transmute solid matter/people than he would have shown to do so before in many occasions where it would have been preferable instead of 1 time between his own movie, Thor's movie, and 2 World changing wars(Infinity and Endgame).

I know PIS goes hand in hand with MCU but casually saying Strange can easily transmute anything does not seem right at all.

Glad you mentioned PIS so I didnt have to! :P

The thing with transmutation, especially in comics, is that a weakness to or inability to affect organic matter is generally the /exception/ and not the rule. A power set as potent as transmutation does NOT in fact get preconceived limitations imposed upon it due to other infrequent instances of people being unable to do the thing as a point of character.

It's like saying "yeah this super brick can eat a nuke... but what about knives?". Unless your name is Wonder Woman and you have a specific character trait that legitimately compartmentalizes your abilities, you do in fact get the logical ramifications of your power set applied to you on Rumbles.

One of the characters you might even have in mind would probably be Firestorm. He had a legit inability to affect living matter. It was suuuper duper a specific limitation of his (possibly even self imposed? can't remember) and is/was an intentional compartmentalization of his capabilities. It is not the sort of thing we handwave onto other charcters.

[Slade1]

I was getting tired of writing "singularity" lol. In official charts on the "composition of the universe" (yes, these exist) they are defined as "ordinary matter". The actual visible/non-visible portion is not matter obviously, but in order to create that, intense concentrations of super collapsed matter are totally a requirement.

It is a requirement, but the a singularity or a black hole is not composed of any matter at all. Now, since gravity is not typically a force but more of a warp in spacetime, you would need to have reality warping powers to affect it. Transmutation would not work because there is no matter to transmute. Yes, the theory of relativity states that matter and energy are interchangeable but out of all the four fundamental forces of the universe, gravity is different as it's not really a force. Or maybe I'm going too deep into theoretical principles of the real world.

[The Arbiter]

It is a requirement, but the a singularity or a black hole is not composed of any matter at all. Now, since gravity is not typically a force but more of a warp in spacetime, you would need to have reality warping powers to affect it. Transmutation would not work because there is no matter to transmute. Yes, the theory of relativity states that matter and energy are interchangeable but out of all the four fundamental forces of the universe, gravity is different as it's not really a force. Or maybe I'm going too deep into theoretical principles of the real world.

Slade im gonna need you to get allllll the way off my back on this ;P

*ahem* Black Holes (not the effects, gravity or otherwise) are listed as "ordinary matter". Meaning, everything that has quarks and leptons is classified as such. They are pretty much impossible to truly observe in a traditional sense, but it stands to reason that the stuff that made them and is in fact still holding mass, hasn't suddenly disappeared. I am NOT a scientist, but I have had people more intelligent then myself label it as "matter".

Singularities have no atoms. Buuut neither do Neutron Stars and those are decidedly still matter.

Besides, even if you ARE right, then by your own admission, Strange is not using transmutation, but is instead using full on reality warping. That's like transmutation on steroids and should have nooo problem with organic matter whatsoever.

[moonknight11]

I'm iffy on granting Strange transmutation of living things. Sure would have been useful against Thanos, at least the lack of use of sling ring portal kill was explained by the Russo's.

Claiming PIS isn't get out of jail free card to give someone powers they never show.

[The Arbiter]

I'm iffy on granting Strange transmutation of living things. Sure would have been useful against Thanos, at least the lack of use of sling ring portal kill was explained by the Russo's.

Claiming PIS isn't get out of jail free card to give someone powers they never show.

Except he showed it.

Also, why is living material more complicated?

Also, in the sanctum (presumably boosted) he made beer out of nothing.

Here is a good counter argument: "But Arby! He only ever demonstrated this ability in a defensive manner - shield wall and everything. there is no indication he can manifest this program easily in an offensive manner as your first post suggests!" I would totally understand that logic. It being a tricky thing to use at range etc.

[Slade1]

Slade im gonna need you to get allllll the way off my back on this ;P

Never!

*ahem* Black Holes (not the effects, gravity or otherwise) are listed as "ordinary matter". Meaning, everything that has quarks and leptons is classified as such. They are pretty much impossible to truly observe in a traditional sense, but it stands to reason that the stuff that made them and is in fact still holding mass, hasn't suddenly disappeared. I am NOT a scientist, but I have had people more intelligent then myself label it as "matter".

Singularities have no atoms. Buuut neither do Neutron Stars and those are decidedly still matter.

Besides, even if you ARE right, then by your own admission, Strange is not using transmutation, but is instead using full on reality warping. That's like transmutation on steroids and should have nooo problem with organic matter whatsoever.

I'm going to have to disagree with you but to each his own. In regards to Strange, I never argued against it; like I said I was just talking about the singularity.

[rhyvurg]

No BFR, but can't Strange still use local portals for portal cuts? I mean, it's not like there's a minimum distance, he could open a portal six inches away and snap it shut, slice.