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  1. #61
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    I think it depends on the situation and the perspective.
    Oh, certainly. Taken to an extreme, or hitting too directly on an actual policy/person/issue......well, taking anything to an extreme usually means the whole argument falls apart. I definitely agree that a degree of.....consideration.....for the other side of the issue has to be taken into account. But I think there's room in the way Clark's written these days where he could be a little more out spoken without crossing a line.

    However, I can still enjoy Lois & Clark and like Dean Cain even though I generally don't agree with and sometimes can't stand his politics (and I'm sure he'd find my Sanders-leaning as equally offensive as I find his like of Gorka, lol). That doesn't change the fact that he's one #ell of a nice guy, on-screen and in person. It was a treat meeting him. And his fans were lovely. I was in my Superman suit when we did, and one of them asked to take my picture. I of course said yes, and she asked if I could hold something - and they were a pair of Trump socks. When I hesitated, she said gently "oh, do you not like him?", to which I responded "Well, it's just that Superman should never endorse any political candidate - he should be for everybody." She said "wow, you're absolutely right, I didn't think of that" and gladly took my picture without them. Still makes me smile when I think about it.
    I feel like I've heard you relate that story before, and I absolutely love your response. It's exactly what Superman would say. Much love and respect for how you handled that situation.

    Back on topic: For something similar, look at Smallville since we discovered what we know now about Allison Mack. That's an extreme comparison, to be sure, but I bring it up because the political charge can sometimes be that strong in people's minds. Eventually, things will settle a bit and that won't be the case, but that'll take time for society to "de-program" itself. I'm ever the optimist, but I do think it'll happen in time.
    Your optimism is, as always, refreshing, even if I can't bring myself to give people as much benefit of the doubt as you do. In this case though, I think I actually agree. Seems to me the path we've been on leads to one of two places; either things become so charged it becomes violent and we find ourselves fighting with our neighbors, or we realize that despite different politics we're all trying to make the nation we love a better place, and simply disagree on the details and re-learn how to co-exist. I dont think America has the stones for another civil war (at least on my good days) so I think you may be right.

    But for now - it's a fun thought-experiment to think of who we think he (and the rest of the cast) would support and why we feel that way, because this place is (gladly!) more about geekdom, and is barely political at all. And as you said, Superman should be the same way when it comes to individual candidates or identity politics on any side (and all sides have it to at least some degree). What he absolutely can and should take stands on is looking at other people as people, treating you fellow (hu)man with compassion, and standing up against oppression, greed, and corruption. Those are strong messages that, while sometimes they can seem political, are necessary and central enough that we can each follow to some degree, no matter what side we stand on.
    I definitely love digging into the possibilities and the un-turned rocks in Clark's character. It's fun to contemplate, especially because it's *just* a creative exercise and nothing is riding on the outcome. As for the bold part, that too is easily politicized it seems. I recall a few complaints when Morrison started his New52 run that Clark was, once again, going after big business, which some took as an attack on their politics (not sure why, unless they supported corruption). But I do very much agree that there are certain things that are universal, and Superman taking those issues on might be a nice way to remind us that (as Black Panther said in the film) more connects us than separates us.
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  2. #62
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh, certainly. Taken to an extreme, or hitting too directly on an actual policy/person/issue......well, taking anything to an extreme usually means the whole argument falls apart. I definitely agree that a degree of.....consideration.....for the other side of the issue has to be taken into account. But I think there's room in the way Clark's written these days where he could be a little more out spoken without crossing a line.
    Oh, absolutely. What I mean is that there are actual lines and perceived lines to due political/media manipulation. Caring for the well being of others is a basic tenant of humanity, at least to the average person. But when things become conflated as they have, it gets perceived as stepping across actual political lines due to manipulation. Life's "political moralities" don't really have a "side" generally (or certainly doesn't have to), and I see those as more than fine (as long as they're in character). And I think we're starting to see some of that experimented with in stories again (LL#1, for example). I certainly wouldn't mind more of it, as long as it's handled well (and in character).

    I feel like I've heard you relate that story before, and I absolutely love your response. It's exactly what Superman would say. Much love and respect for how you handled that situation.
    You know, as I was typing that, I thought "I feel like I've said this before" lol - but I appreciate that. I definitely had early Post-Crisis in my head as I said it.

    Your optimism is, as always, refreshing, even if I can't bring myself to give people as much benefit of the doubt as you do. In this case though, I think I actually agree. Seems to me the path we've been on leads to one of two places; either things become so charged it becomes violent and we find ourselves fighting with our neighbors, or we realize that despite different politics we're all trying to make the nation we love a better place, and simply disagree on the details and re-learn how to co-exist. I dont think America has the stones for another civil war (at least on my good days) so I think you may be right.
    I'm actually not sure if the nation doesn't have those stones, but I will say that I'm starting to see more people call out the difference between the "optics" of something and the "reality" of it, even if calling that out isn't in the person's best interest. That's one heck of a good start to turning that corner, and that gives me a lot of optimism. Ironically, it's coming along with some of the ol' Superman "Golden Age" mentality, which I won't complain about too much.

    I definitely love digging into the possibilities and the un-turned rocks in Clark's character. It's fun to contemplate, especially because it's *just* a creative exercise and nothing is riding on the outcome. As for the bold part, that too is easily politicized it seems. I recall a few complaints when Morrison started his New52 run that Clark was, once again, going after big business, which some took as an attack on their politics (not sure why, unless they supported corruption). But I do very much agree that there are certain things that are universal, and Superman taking those issues on might be a nice way to remind us that (as Black Panther said in the film) more connects us than separates us.
    Absolutely, and well said. Funny enough about folks saying Clark went after big business too much - that was definitely a phase of it's time. I can't imagine that being too much of a problem today, lol. But like anything else, these things have cycles.
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  3. #63

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    Clark wouldn't vote; he'd feel like he can't, except against Luthor.

  4. #64

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    Lombard would vote for Trump with little care for his politics. He'd be motivated to support Trump because he isn't "PC" and "Tells it like it is".

    The others are all fucking libs. Whoever they vote for in the primaries wouldn't matter because they would all vote for the Dem candidate in the general, whether it was Bernie or Biden and they wouldn't make an issue out of it.

  5. #65
    Mighty Member Adekis's Avatar
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    Huh, I'm thinking of the pre-Crisis Maggin style of Superman, where Clark is like a really elaborate alternate reality game Superman plays. Obviously that doesn't apply to the whole pre-Crisis era, but certainly for Maggin. I wonder if that Clark would ever vote for a different person than his Superman would, and Superman just has to let him do it.
    "You know the deal, Metropolis. Treat people right or expect a visit from me."

  6. #66
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adekis View Post
    Huh, I'm thinking of the pre-Crisis Maggin style of Superman, where Clark is like a really elaborate alternate reality game Superman plays. Obviously that doesn't apply to the whole pre-Crisis era, but certainly for Maggin. I wonder if that Clark would ever vote for a different person than his Superman would, and Superman just has to let him do it.
    That's an interesting question. I don't know if the schism between "Clark" and "Superman" ever went *quite* that deep.....but it very well may have, under Maggin. Is the guy on social media? Someone should ask him.

    If the answer is yes.....that opens up some really interesting concepts.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

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