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  1. #31
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    We've seen Clark use guns in a number of instances (Return, Hunter/Prey, All-Star, etc). He also has a vast collection of them in the Fortress, and I'm somewhat sure I recall seeing a rifle or shotgun at the Kent household (though I could be remembering wrong), which would make sense given the farm's rural location. Lois has also been shown to have a number of weapons stashed around the house/apartment (in Identity Crisis she pulls a New Genesis mega rod out from under the sink or something) and I *think* she's been shown to have her concealed carry permit, which again, would make sense given the situations she gets into.

    Since Clark didn't destroy the guns in the Fortress, no one mentioned his anti-gun views while he was actively using them, and he grew up around them, I doubt Clark is anti-gun. As I already said, he's probably not on the extreme NRA end of the spectrum but I have never seen Clark express any problem with firearms, merely the way some people use them. Batman is the guy who would abolish the 2nd if he could, but while Clark must have certain opinions on the regulation of firearms I've never seen anything on the page to make me think he's against them. Unless you have examples from the page it seems you're just projecting here. Which, I mean, we all are to one degree or another; there's not enough exploration of Clark's politics for us to have clear-cut answers. But as my literary analysis professor said, the evidence is whatever's on the page. If there are examples that support your view, I'm either forgetting them or never saw them. Certainly haven't read every single issue yknow?



    I think the libertarian thing largely comes in from Clark's strong belief in personal privacy, which isn't really a talking point for either the democrats or republicans anymore. Clark goes through a lot of trouble to ensure his identity remains a secret, especially from any government/military force, which strikes me as being very libertarian. And this has less to do with evidence on the page so I'm breaking a basic analysis rule here, but I've always had the impression he's for small government, which again, is more libertarian (formerly more republican) than anything else these days, it seems.

    As for the right-leaning opinions, this example is a bit of a stretch because to my knowledge no comic has ever tackled the subject, but given how Clark feels about the sanctity of life and his no-kill rule (not that he keeps that rule all the time, but I digress) he's *probably* pro-life. I'd assume that he's not Alabama levels of crazy about it, of course.

    Clark also seems to be a big supporter of first responders (including cops) and soldiers. He definitely takes issue with corruption within those institutions, but he's always friendly with the guys in uniform (autographing helmets during OW@W, for example). Clark's no supporter of people in authority abusing that power whether they're generals or businessmen or husbands, but he seems to have a lot of respect for the guys on the ground. Pa Kent (in several continuities) was a soldier as well, which helps provide some context for Clark's opinion, and while it's a one-off outlier Year One has him joining the Navy. But it *is* important to point out (again) that supporting cops and soldiers is not the same thing as supporting the decisions their bosses make. Clark's anti-corruption, but doesn't appear to be anti-cop or anti-military, unless he expressed those opinions in issues I didnt read. And the left is pushing further in that direction, so I think this is another case where Clark's ended up in the middle mostly because, as the parties keep pushing further to the extreme, the goal posts have shifted.

    Golden Age Superman (and the New52) was very much a hardcore leftist, probably some flavor of Bernie-style democratic socialist. Outside of those eras, his politics have been far more muted, and while that's a corporate mandate to ensure Superman appeals to everyone, it's ended up skewing his politics into centrist middle ground.

    I myself would rather see the guy go all-in on his classic politics and start throwing his weight around the political arena. But what I want to see isn't what's on the page.
    Are libertarians pro-privacy? Arent they almost entirely the opposite of that? They mostly believe that corporations should be able to do as they please with information and that the government shouldn't be able to limit the corporate spying? Genuinely asking!

    There is next to nothing showing Superman to be anti-abortion. If anything he and Lois would both believe in a person's personal sovereignty.

    I guess I agree with you that he would vaguely agree with the 2nd amendment, though that wouldnt make him "right".

    Clark has been friends with specific police officials. Bill Henderson, Maggie Swayer, Dan Turpin. He's anti corruption, like ya said, but he knows that a police force is necessary in society.

    Superman would largely be pro-worker, anti-big business. I mean he spends most of his time in battle with billionaires. He's an investigative journalist so I'm sure he'd find corruption interesting and be all over it. I don't imagine him being moderate, though I do believe he would be very careful where he says what and who he backs- thus creating an illusion of moderacy.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 07-07-2019 at 01:19 PM.
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  2. #32
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Very well said, misslane.

    Being pro-2nd Amendment doesnt make you a right winger or a libertarian. A lot of progressives hold those opinions.
    No, it doesn't. But it seems to me that the democrats (like the republicans) are sliding further and further into the extreme ends of their ideology, so I figure that means Clark's views on gun control have ended up being closer to the middle ground than they would've been a few years ago.

    I figure Clark's ended up more moderate/centrist simply because both parties have gone insane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Are libertarians pro-privacy? Arent they almost entirely the opposite of that? They mostly believe that corporations should be able to do as they please with information and that the government shouldn't be able to limit the corporate spying? Genuinely asking!
    You could be right? I always thought libertarians were pro-privacy, pro-small government, pro-mind your own business. But I could be wrong. I know we have some libertarians here, maybe they can inform us?

    EDIT: I did a quick Google, and this is the front page of a libertarian site.

    The libertarian or “classical liberal” perspective is that peace, prosperity, and social harmony are fostered by “as much liberty as possible” and “as little government as necessary.”

    With a long intellectual tradition spanning hundreds of years, libertarian ideas of individual rights, economic liberty, and limited government have contributed to history-changing movements like abolition, women’s suffrage, and the civil rights movement.

    Libertarian is not a single viewpoint, but includes a wide variety of perspectives. Libertarians can range from market anarchists to advocates of a limited welfare state, but they are all united by a belief in personal liberty, economic freedom, and a skepticism of government power.


    A lot of that *does* sound like Clark.

    There is next to nothing showing Superman to be anti-abortion. If anything he and Lois would both believe in a person's personal sovereignty.
    Perhaps. If so, that'd be closer to my own opinion. But we've also never seen (to my knowledge) Superman do anything that shows he's pro-abortion. The best we have to judge is his stance on lethal force, capital punishment, and the value of all life. Given how he feels about those things, and the effort he'll go to in order to protect life, I feel like he'd be against abortion in a very general kind of way.....but probably also recognize that it's sometimes the best/only option. But this is me projecting my own opinion so I tend to rule it out just for that fact. The fact is we don't know how Clark feels about it because (as far as Im aware) he's never talked about it.

    I guess I agree with you that he would vaguely agree with the 2nd amendment, though that wouldnt make him "right".
    Not usually, no. But like I said, the parties have lost their minds and gone insane, and I feel like this shift has put Clark closer to the middle than he used to be, and on this particular issue he's possibly closer to the right side of the middle than the left now, since so much of the democratic party has taken a relatively extreme stance on the gun issue.

    Clark has been friends with specific police officials. Bill Henderson, Maggie Swayer, Dan Turpin. He's anti corruption, like ya said, but he knows that a police force is necessary in society.
    Exactly. And he's friendly with people in uniform until he has reason to believe they're abusing their authority.

    Superman would largely be pro-worker, anti-big business. I mean he spends most of his time in battle with billionaires. He's an investigative journalist so I'm sure he'd find corruption interesting and be all over it. I don't imagine him being moderate, though I do believe he would be very careful where he says what and who he backs- thus creating an illusion of moderacy.
    Oh he's definitely against big business. No question there at all. I think if you made a list of all the issues, he'd end up on the left side of things more often than the right. But that doesn't mean he's not near the middle of where the two parties currently reside.

    And if he has more radical political opinions he keeps to himself.....well, we dont know if he does or what they are. We can say that he's still the hardcore leftist he was in 1938 but that would really be projecting, since there's zero evidence of it.
    Last edited by Ascended; 07-07-2019 at 04:15 PM.
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  3. #33
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I get where you're coming from on the "sliding scale" things. What one considered themselves maybe just a decade ago may not be an apt descriptor anymore as both parties have drastically shifted to the radical ends. Unless the individual also shifts with them. But I know its certainly affected what I would consider my beliefs falling into now. Used to be easily liberal. I think I'd be best described as a moderate now in today's landscape.
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  4. #34
    Superfan Through The Ages BBally's Avatar
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    I can definitely imagine Clark being a Centrist/Independent voter.

    Speaking of his views, during a time between the late 90's to early 2000's, Clark was shown not to be a fan of the death penalty.
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  5. #35
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I get where you're coming from on the "sliding scale" things. What one considered themselves maybe just a decade ago may not be an apt descriptor anymore as both parties have drastically shifted to the radical ends. Unless the individual also shifts with them. But I know its certainly affected what I would consider my beliefs falling into now. Used to be easily liberal. I think I'd be best described as a moderate now in today's landscape.
    Same. I was never on the extreme end of the left, but I used to be firmly in democrat territory (aside from one or two exceptions, like business regulations. Never agreed with the left about the amount of restrictions put on free markets....though I definitely think there needs to be some, primarily anti-trust and environmental). But now the political landscape has shifted and I'm far closer to the middle than I used to be, even though my opinions haven't changed. Im actually pretty disgusted with a lot of these new age democrats and think they're just as bad as the extreme right.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBally View Post
    I can definitely imagine Clark being a Centrist/Independent voter.

    Speaking of his views, during a time between the late 90's to early 2000's, Clark was shown not to be a fan of the death penalty.
    Yeah, Clark's pretty much always been against the death penalty. He's okay with killing in self-defense, he accepts the necessity of killing to protect innocent lives (and has done so himself several times), but he is most definitely a big believer in redemption and against capital punishment.
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  6. #36
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    Clark would stand on the sidelines keeping his opinions to himself till it comes time to vote. He would probably talk things over with Lois. I imagine when Trump took office he paid him a friendly visit intimating he'd keep an eye on him, as he would do for any President. He would keep the things he has discovered in mind when he goes to vote in 2020

  7. #37
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    I think it comes down less to ideologies in general and more about what they see each person as trying to do, with a bit of the candidate's story also having a small amount of sway.

    I could see Lois and Clark being most interested in Gabbard, Sanders, and Warren (that's alphabetical order, not preference). Mainly because L&C'd have had more first-hand experience with seeing the effects of business/etc's grip on both society and politics (Lex Luthor, etc) and want to see some accountability for that and a shift in the power structure. But being professionals in their jobs (a rarity in almost any medium now), they'd be VERY quiet about it and grill each candidate equally (and honestly) to see what makes them tick. People could probably guess on some level who they're against, but not have a strong idea of who they prefer.

    For Jimmy, probably Buttigieg and Sanders. Though also Yang - the $1k/month idea would be tempting, depending on his living conditions. Or even 3rd party - I could certainly see that as well.

    Perry's a tough one. Generationally, I'd have said Biden - and there's a strong case for that. But he's sharp and doesn't trust any political power easily, so I think he'd be undecided - settling on whoever he thinks he'd have to "fight the least" (in print).

    With Cat, I think it's between Harris and Warren - especially in her more recent iterations (Supergirl, etc).

    Ron's another tough one. He's had a few different depictions over the years, which makes it harder to say.

    Steve, Dirk, and Morgan are definitely Trump voters, though for very different reasons, respectively.


    It's an interesting thought experiment, at the very least!
    Last edited by JAK; 07-08-2019 at 02:48 AM.
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  8. #38
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Yknow, I'm not a huge Cat Grant fan and she's been written in some very different ways over the years and Im far from an expert on any of them, but I think I could see some versions of her voting for trump.

    The 90's era....probably not.....especially after what happened with Morgan Edge and her son. Possibly before that, I dont know.

    The 00's version, the gossip columnist who tried to seduce a married man with her bad boob job? I could see her voting for trump just for the spectacle of it all. I mean, trump in office makes the gossip writer's job super easy for the next four years. And this Cat wouldn't be bothered at all by trump's multiple scandals.

    The modern version is supposed to be some cold blooded corporate shark right? I haven't read Supergirl but they're stealing from the tv show (which I haven't watched) yes? I could see this Cat voting for trump because of all the business regulations he's cut.

    Jimmy......I'm not sure if the guy actually votes? I mean, I'm sure he'd plan to and intend to......but it's Jimmy. Crazy stuff happens to him and I could see him either just forgetting to vote or being too busy (trying to escape Gorilla City, trapped in a giant turtle body, etc).

    I think Perry would likely go with Biden. It's the obvious choice but I dont think that makes it wrong.

    Not sure who Ron Troupe would vote for. As I recall he was a big democrat, but he hasn't seen real panel time in many years and the democratic party has changed a lot from what it was in the 90's.
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  9. #39
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yknow, I'm not a huge Cat Grant fan and she's been written in some very different ways over the years and Im far from an expert on any of them, but I think I could see some versions of her voting for trump.

    The 90's era....probably not.....especially after what happened with Morgan Edge and her son. Possibly before that, I dont know.

    The 00's version, the gossip columnist who tried to seduce a married man with her bad boob job? I could see her voting for trump just for the spectacle of it all. I mean, trump in office makes the gossip writer's job super easy for the next four years. And this Cat wouldn't be bothered at all by trump's multiple scandals.

    The modern version is supposed to be some cold blooded corporate shark right? I haven't read Supergirl but they're stealing from the tv show (which I haven't watched) yes? I could see this Cat voting for trump because of all the business regulations he's cut.
    Possibly - but most iterations have had her persona be something she puts on as an act or advertising. And given her reactions to Edge's advances, etc, I think his various statements and alleged history would put her off of him.

    The Cat from Supergirl is very much a fan of a strong woman leading, which imo would supersede her corporate instincts. Plus, the market she's in has only been deregulated in the last decades, so the business regulations cuts wouldn't mean much to her.

    Jimmy......I'm not sure if the guy actually votes? I mean, I'm sure he'd plan to and intend to......but it's Jimmy. Crazy stuff happens to him and I could see him either just forgetting to vote or being too busy (trying to escape Gorilla City, trapped in a giant turtle body, etc).
    That's a good thought, actually, and him trying to vote but having all these things happen that keep (or almost keep) him from it would indeed be a very "Jimmy" story.

    I think Perry would likely go with Biden. It's the obvious choice but I dont think that makes it wrong.
    I kinda think that, too - but given everything he'd likely have seen across his desk that we as a general public don't even hear about (over the years), I can just hear him saying "I don't know if I care for any of these yay-hoos. So whoever I think is going to give us the least trouble, that's who I'll go with." I could certainly see him giving Biden more of a look than the others would, though - especially considering that Keith would almost certainly have looked up to President Obama (assuming Keith still exists).

    Not sure who Ron Troupe would vote for. As I recall he was a big democrat, but he hasn't seen real panel time in many years and the democratic party has changed a lot from what it was in the 90's.
    Yeah - the sad part is that he hasn't had much real "face" time in forever, so it's hard to say. Going by the 90's, though, you're right iirc.
    Last edited by JAK; 07-08-2019 at 09:29 PM.
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think the libertarian thing largely comes in from Clark's strong belief in personal privacy, which isn't really a talking point for either the democrats or republicans anymore. Clark goes through a lot of trouble to ensure his identity remains a secret, especially from any government/military force, which strikes me as being very libertarian. And this has less to do with evidence on the page so I'm breaking a basic analysis rule here, but I've always had the impression he's for small government, which again, is more libertarian (formerly more republican) than anything else these days, it seems.
    Distrusting the US government makes you a right wing libertarian? Were Fred Hampton and the Black Panthers libertarians?

    Superman was created as a leftist Jewish creation that has since been appropriated by conservative Christians and I think it's fair to say that the mid-50s to post-Crisis version of Superman was often written as a conservative/centrist guardian of the status quo (that's why that version ain't good). But that's a bad thing and people should oppose it for butchering Siegel and Shuster's radical vision.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Not sure Superman is necessarily against big business; after all, he's besties with Bruce Wayne. Maybe he'd rationalize it that Bruce Wayne needs all that capital so that he can appropriate it (illegally) to fight crime and injustice in Gotham.

    I think we can all say he's against the exploitation that big businesses are often guilty of, but I'd imagine that if a large corporation donated its resources to charities, didn't pollute the environment, and worked out a desirable collective bargaining agreement with its labor force then he'd be OK with them.

  12. #42
    Superfan Through The Ages BBally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Not sure Superman is necessarily against big business; after all, he's besties with Bruce Wayne. Maybe he'd rationalize it that Bruce Wayne needs all that capital so that he can appropriate it (illegally) to fight crime and injustice in Gotham.

    I think we can all say he's against the exploitation that big businesses are often guilty of, but I'd imagine that if a large corporation donated its resources to charities, didn't pollute the environment, and worked out a desirable collective bargaining agreement with its labor force then he'd be OK with them.
    Yeah, I don't think he has a problem with big businesses per say, just that the huge number of them he came across have done some very "questionable" deeds is what he has an issue with.
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  13. #43
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Possibly - but most iterations have had her persona be something she puts on as an act or advertising. And given her reactions to Edge's advances, etc, I think his various statements and alleged history would put her off of him.
    That's a good point. Like I said, I haven't paid her enough attention over the years to really be able to say. I forget that her attitude was often an act.

    That's a good thought, actually, and him trying to vote but having all these things happen that keep (or almost keep) him from it would indeed be a very "Jimmy" story.
    I really want to see that story happen now.

    Quote Originally Posted by EsotericFailures View Post
    Distrusting the US government makes you a right wing libertarian? Were Fred Hampton and the Black Panthers libertarians?
    No, I'm thinking of the modern day parties, not what we had 50+ years ago. Neither group actually seem to give a damn about our privacy these days. The republicans legalized spying on American citizens after 9/11, the next democratic POTUS renewed it, and the current guy doesn't seem likely to change it either (yes there's more to it all than that, but who has the time/desire for a detailed breakdown?). In the modern day the libertarians seem to be the only group that makes privacy an actual talking point and work towards it (not that they accomplish much). There's some exceptions out there of course, but as far as party lines go? The closest we get to the topic (most of the time) is net neutrality. At least, so it seems to me. But I also dont read every article or watch C-Span 24/7 so I'm not a reliable narrator here.

    And I didn't say "right wing libertarian." I said that supporting small government *used* to be a republican trait, which it was, and *is* a current libertarian concern.

    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Not sure Superman is necessarily against big business; after all, he's besties with Bruce Wayne. Maybe he'd rationalize it that Bruce Wayne needs all that capital so that he can appropriate it (illegally) to fight crime and injustice in Gotham.

    I think we can all say he's against the exploitation that big businesses are often guilty of, but I'd imagine that if a large corporation donated its resources to charities, didn't pollute the environment, and worked out a desirable collective bargaining agreement with its labor force then he'd be OK with them.
    I definitely think Clark recognizes that big business *can* be a good thing. Growing up in rural America, he'd never have had access (or affordability) to certain things without a local Wal-Mart (just for an example), and he sees the good that Bruce does. But he also sees that power and authority abused constantly (even Bruce uses that power illegally). I dont recall Clark ever talking about it specifically, though I'm sure there's gotta be examples out there (he's fought Lex and Edge etc., too often to not have commented on big business at some point) so this is just a guess, but I'd say he's mostly against big business, but also recognizes that it can have positive value when channeled right.
    Last edited by Ascended; 07-09-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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  14. #44
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Almost all progressives are for net neutrality and against spying on citizens.

    Some libertarians might agree, but for the most part they seem more interested in big businesses having free reign over the land than anything else.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 07-09-2019 at 03:07 PM.
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  15. #45
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Not sure Superman is necessarily against big business; after all, he's besties with Bruce Wayne. Maybe he'd rationalize it that Bruce Wayne needs all that capital so that he can appropriate it (illegally) to fight crime and injustice in Gotham.

    I think we can all say he's against the exploitation that big businesses are often guilty of, but I'd imagine that if a large corporation donated its resources to charities, didn't pollute the environment, and worked out a desirable collective bargaining agreement with its labor force then he'd be OK with them.
    His being pals with Bruce Wayne is more a BATMAN and SUPERMAN are 2 major IPs. Batman's wealth has also gotten really overblown in recent years.

    I guess it does muddy the waters, but hey Batman is a pal!
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 07-09-2019 at 03:19 PM.
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