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  1. #46
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Perhaps. If so, that'd be closer to my own opinion. But we've also never seen (to my knowledge) Superman do anything that shows he's pro-abortion. The best we have to judge is his stance on lethal force, capital punishment, and the value of all life. Given how he feels about those things, and the effort he'll go to in order to protect life, I feel like he'd be against abortion in a very general kind of way.....but probably also recognize that it's sometimes the best/only option. But this is me projecting my own opinion so I tend to rule it out just for that fact. The fact is we don't know how Clark feels about it because (as far as Im aware) he's never talked about it.
    Lethal force and capital punishment have nothing to do with abortion issues though.

    Hopefully I never ever ever have to read a Superman adventure comic book that deals with Kal-El's opinions on abortion, but I think it's safe to say he believes in a woman's right to choose what happens to her own individual body. He's Superman, he would realize that it's a horrible decision to have to make and regardless of his own morality they have a right to govern their own human form.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 07-09-2019 at 03:18 PM.
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  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Lethal force and capital punishment have nothing to do with abortion issues though.

    Hopefully I never ever ever have to read a Superman adventure comic book that deals with Kal-El's opinions on abortion, but I think it's safe to say he believes in a woman's right to choose what happens to her own individual body. He's Superman, he would realize that it's a horrible decision to have to make and regardless of his own morality they have a right to govern their own human form.
    I believe, clark would privy to details, regarding any law being implemented. It would be idiotic to think clark would take "women's liberty is paramount" stance.when in reality no living thing's freedom should be unrestrained. For example,attempted suicide is punishable by law in many countries.we can't do what we please with our own bodies either.
    Another example, clark wouldn't be for aborting a fetus that has matured enough, unless there is medical emergency. He would suggest giving child up for adoption,otherwise.
    Taking a life for someone like clark who has went vegetarian in some continuities,will be hard no matter what.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I see current Rebirth Supes being an Obama Democrat or at least center-left. His friendliness with LGBT people alone doesn’t really seem to make him a good fit for the modern Republican Party, and given how Krypton ended up, I can see Superman being a big supporter of things like the “Green New Deal”. I seem to recall the “Talking Superman” Twitter account posting that Supes has a strong history of being pro taking care of the environment. And then there’s his role as a journalist, an infamously left-wing dominated field as well as his fights with Lex.

    Ultimately I’d say Supes would probably vote for Sanders or Biden in the primaries but would vote Democrat regardless of who won the primaries in the general election. Given that the Post-Crisis Lex was explicitely modeled on Trump, I can’t see Clark being a fan lol.

    Lois I see being a much more left-wing person than Clark. Given the bad relationship she had with her father, I can’t see her being too enamoured with the right-wing glorification of the traditional lifestyle and family values. Plus like Clark she’s a journalist, a left-wing field. In the primaries I see her voting for Warren.

    Ron Troupe is the left-wing guy at the planet, I could see him being a Sanders or Warren guy.

    Jimmy Olsen doesn’t vote because his alien ex-gf wiped him from the government records as revenge for dumping her.

    Steve would vote for Trump because he “says it like it is” and doesn’t waste time on “political correctness”.

    Perry would vote for Biden I feel.

    Cat would vote for Trump, either for the laughs if she’s the gossip columnist at the Daily Planet and because it provides fodder for her column, or because Trump would give her lots of tax breaks even though she personally hates him if she’s CEO of CatCo.

  4. #49
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I really want to see that story happen now.
    Me, too!

    No, I'm thinking of the modern day parties, not what we had 50+ years ago. Neither group actually seem to give a damn about our privacy these days. The republicans legalized spying on American citizens after 9/11, the next democratic POTUS renewed it, and the current guy doesn't seem likely to change it either (yes there's more to it all than that, but who has the time/desire for a detailed breakdown?). In the modern day the libertarians seem to be the only group that makes privacy an actual talking point and work towards it (not that they accomplish much). There's some exceptions out there of course, but as far as party lines go? The closest we get to the topic (most of the time) is net neutrality. At least, so it seems to me. But I also dont read every article or watch C-Span 24/7 so I'm not a reliable narrator here.
    I'd say that's pretty accurate. There may be more groups/candidates interested in privacy issues than we tend to see, it's just not a topic that comes up because so many other things are front and center.

    I definitely think Clark recognizes that big business *can* be a good thing. Growing up in rural America, he'd never have had access (or affordability) to certain things without a local Wal-Mart (just for an example), and he sees the good that Bruce does. But he also sees that power and authority abused constantly (even Bruce uses that power illegally). I dont recall Clark ever talking about it specifically, though I'm sure there's gotta be examples out there (he's fought Lex and Edge etc., too often to not have commented on big business at some point) so this is just a guess, but I'd say he's mostly against big business, but also recognizes that it can have positive value when channeled right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    His being pals with Bruce Wayne is more a BATMAN and SUPERMAN are 2 major IPs. Batman's wealth has also gotten really overblown in recent years.

    I guess it does muddy the waters, but hey Batman is a pal!
    Bruce is an exception, not a rule - he's the fictional "one of the good ones" because not many want to mess much with the business side of Wayne Industries.

    Some great points (which is why I quoted them together) on Superman seeing Batman vs other entities. To those points as they relate to the current campaign landscape, there's been a lot of conflation in media/etc of candidates who are "pro-regulation" into them being "anti-business" - one is not the other, even as much as it's said they are. What's largely being talked about is regulation and taxes as a means to stop a least some of what's happening to people from large entites who are either intentionally gaming the system or simply using an easily gamed system because it's there. But the way it's being portrayed has been conflated and outright twisted to the point that many think one means the other - and that's not actually the case for any candidate afaik (except maybe Gravel... maybe).

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Almost all progressives are for net neutrality and against spying on citizens.

    Some libertarians might agree, but for the most part they seem more interested in big businesses having free reign over the land than anything else.
    Yes to the first part, definitely. And on the second: while I don't agree that they're necessarily "more" interested in the second, that seems to be what's brought up in interviews with many libertarian candidates, and it's where they tend to lose me.
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  5. #50
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Lethal force and capital punishment have nothing to do with abortion issues though.

    Hopefully I never ever ever have to read a Superman adventure comic book that deals with Kal-El's opinions on abortion, but I think it's safe to say he believes in a woman's right to choose what happens to her own individual body. He's Superman, he would realize that it's a horrible decision to have to make and regardless of his own morality they have a right to govern their own human form.
    No, you're right it's a pretty thin line to hang an opinion on. But since Clark has never talked about his feelings on the topic, it's all we have. How does he feel about death and when is it okay for something to die? Its complicated by the fact that the abortion issue is heavily influenced by religion and Clark pays homage to his native culture. Who knows what Krypton thought of the issue or what scientific knowledge they had about fetal development that we don't that would influence his opinion?

    I'd like to believe that Clark would feel the same way I do (as we all like to believe) but while he might respect an individual's right to choose in most situations, he has never been very good at dealing with death. This a total guess of course; since Clark has never talked about abortion there's nothing we can actually analyze on the page. And you could be right where I'm wrong. But my guess is that Clark would be pro-life in **most** situations. If the mother's life was in danger or it was an instance of rape or incest, I suspect he'd be more sympathetic though.
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  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Ultimately I’d say Supes would probably vote for Sanders or Biden in the primaries but would vote Democrat regardless of who won the primaries in the general election.
    I agree here, though I think Bernie might not get the modern Superman's vote over Joe. He'd definitely get Golden Age Superman's vote though. And yeah, I can't see Clark voting for trump. The dynamic with the news media and the mountain of scandals alone would, I think, be enough to make Clark wary. Even if you wanted to say Clark would support most of trump's policy choices (and I'm not sure how you'd convincingly argue that) Clark's so anti-corruption that, even without a firm indictment of crimes committed, there's enough smoke for Clark to believe there's fire, and it just hasn't been found yet. After all, he's spent much of his career trying to prove Lex is a criminal and failing to gather sufficient evidence. I'm not saying trump is like Lex (Im sure trump has his fans here and Im not trying to throw shade) but I think if nothing else Clark would be gunshy as hell about the donald and vote for the other guy (or woman).
    Last edited by Ascended; 07-09-2019 at 07:02 PM.
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    I am very impressed this has not turned into a abortion/immigrant/trump hate thread yet! Congrats everyone!

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Would Superman vote for a superior third-party candidate if one such candidate ran? Or would Superman vote strategically and try to push a policy or ideology across even if it meant voting for a more flawed candidate?

    I could see Superman's vote going to a candidate who had no chance regardless of electability if he liked the candidate enough. Supporting a "hopeless" candidate sort of seems up his alley, especially if he had reason to believe the main candidates are in any way compromised.

  9. #54
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I agree here, though I think Bernie might not get the modern Superman's vote over Joe. He'd definitely get Golden Age Superman's vote though. And yeah, I can't see Clark voting for trump. The dynamic with the news media and the mountain of scandals alone would, I think, be enough to make Clark wary. Even if you wanted to say Clark would support most of trump's policy choices (and I'm not sure how you'd convincingly argue that) Clark's so anti-corruption that, even without a firm indictment of crimes committed, there's enough smoke for Clark to believe there's fire, and it just hasn't been found yet. After all, he's spent much of his career trying to prove Lex is a criminal and failing to gather sufficient evidence. I'm not saying trump is like Lex (Im sure trump has his fans here and Im not trying to throw shade) but I think if nothing else Clark would be gunshy as hell about the donald and vote for the other guy (or woman).
    I agree for the most part - though I do tend to think (and this is absolutely projection here) that he'd lean more to the former than the latter of those first two. Donor base would be one, but also that I tend to see modern Clark as much more reserved..but still having a slightly gentler version of his Golden Age mindset. But I do know that's absolutely just my headcanon version's preferred mentality.

    Tomasi's Clark from those vacation issues would likely be a different story, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Would Superman vote for a superior third-party candidate if one such candidate ran? Or would Superman vote strategically and try to push a policy or ideology across even if it meant voting for a more flawed candidate?

    I could see Superman's vote going to a candidate who had no chance regardless of electability if he liked the candidate enough. Supporting a "hopeless" candidate sort of seems up his alley, especially if he had reason to believe the main candidates are in any way compromised.
    I could certainly see this, depending on the situation.
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  10. #55
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Would Superman vote for a superior third-party candidate if one such candidate ran? Or would Superman vote strategically and try to push a policy or ideology across even if it meant voting for a more flawed candidate?

    I could see Superman's vote going to a candidate who had no chance regardless of electability if he liked the candidate enough. Supporting a "hopeless" candidate sort of seems up his alley, especially if he had reason to believe the main candidates are in any way compromised.
    Im inclined to believe Clark would vote for whoever he thought would be the best person for the job, regardless of what their odds looked like.
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  11. #56
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    I agree for the most part - though I do tend to think (and this is absolutely projection here) that he'd lean more to the former than the latter of those first two. Donor base would be one, but also that I tend to see modern Clark as much more reserved..but still having a slightly gentler version of his Golden Age mindset. But I do know that's absolutely just my headcanon version's preferred mentality.
    Its hard, if not impossible, to not project at least a little here. There's not enough on the page to really judge how Clark feels about most issues, much less actual individuals. And even on the issues where we do have some on-page stuff, it's usually not enough to do more than judge whether he'd be generally on the left, right, or center of the issue. Like, we can tell that Clark is a supporter of immigration; he's helped and saved several illegal aliens in recent years and didn't turn them over to ICE or deport them himself or even try to get them to do things the right, legal way. And he's an illegal immigrant himself, so we know he's vaguely left on the issue. But how does he feel about sanctuary cities, the duration/complexity of the citizenship process, zero tolerance policies, living conditions at holding faculties, the wall, etc? We have no idea. We can just guess, and odds are most of us are going to guess that Clark would agree with us.
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  12. #57
    Astonishing Member Doctor Know's Avatar
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    It's more apt to say that Supes is a refugee. Since Krypton was destroyed in a fiery holocaust, when the core exploded. He can't go home again.

    It's tightrope issue for sure. On the one hand, there is a legal process that millions of people use and millions of people don't. The current admin has said it's a crisis and many are using the letter of the law to beat the spirit of the law. The party out of power (Democrats) and in other countries (like France and Germany) have campaigned and incentivized people to come anyway they can. With promises of housing, welfare and safety. But wont lift a finger to actually bring people to their respective countries. Leading to tragedies like people drowning in Rio Grande, Mediterranean sea and crossing the deserts.

    Couple in human traffickers, child exploitation (Florida, Louisana and I believe Texas have all had recent cases of sex rings broken up with migrant children as victims), the drug cartels etc.

    Not to mention, mass migration does nothing to fix the problems in the countries tens of millions are fleeing. Nor does it assuage reservations native citizens have about their own communities, tax payer money and thoughts on the issue.

    Supes picking a side would make the problem worse. Tightrope is balancing the right thing, with the smart thing.

  13. #58
    Spectacular Member RickWJ324's Avatar
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    I would prefer NOT to know how ANY comic character leans....I hear enough BS on a daily basis when it comes to politics. Too many "agendas" and other things bleed over into our comics and tv shows as it is. I don't need to know who a fictional character would pull for, unless they are voting for/against Lex Luthor or some other FICTIONAL character.

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Know View Post
    It's more apt to say that Supes is a refugee.
    Correct you are sir. Not the best word choice on my part.

    It's tightrope issue for sure.
    I think the entire concept of exploring real-world politics with Clark is a tightrope, honestly. Superman is, and should always be, for everyone. No one should feel like they're "left out" or "not allowed in" because Clark has different politics. Just look at this thread, we've got people on the left, right, the middle.....and most of us believe that, at least for the most part, Clark represents our views and reinforces what we believe to be right. Sure, there's some exceptions; Superman is very clearly against discrimination and a racist wouldn't be able to say otherwise, he's very clearly pro-immigration while some may think that foreigners shouldn't be allowed in at all, etc, but generally? I've seen people spin the character to fit their own ideals across the spectrum, and often they have solid arguments to support it. And in a lot of ways that's one of the character's biggest strengths; despite our different opinions we all believe we've got Clark in our corner. Superman is for everybody, right?

    But at the same time, you can't completely avoid politics, especially right now, and trying not to offend anyone at all often means not saying anything worth saying. And I think when Clark started dealing with aliens and super villains more often than corrupt businessmen or other "real" problems, he lost a lot of his bite (I love the crazy sci-fi Silver Age stuff, dont get me wrong, but I adore the social crusader too). Is a vanilla so bland no one hates it anyone's favorite flavor? You get what I mean?

    And I gotta wonder; have we reached a point where we can no longer enjoy or support something if it doesn't reflect our own ideas? How sad would that be, if we couldn't accept anything outside our own echo chamber? I think Clark has political opinions that don't mirror my own. I *know* Ollie Queen does (he's too left even for me). But that's never stopped me from enjoying either of them. Would it really be so terrible if Clark expressed a little more of an opinion on things? He stood up to the KKK, he championed tolerance and acceptance when most of the nation was still of the opinion that PoC and women didn't have the same rights as white men. Taking a stand never seemed to hurt his popularity then, can we be sure it would now?

    Stuff we dont like happens in the books all the time. Maybe someone thinks Clark shouldn't have kids at all, like Sacred (and to a lesser extent myself). Maybe someone doesnt like Jon Kent being aged-up. We're still reading because despite the things we dont like, there's still a lot we do. So if Clark expressed an opinion someone didn't agree with, why would it be any different from the other stuff? Maybe Clark is all in support of Space Force, and you think that's a stupid, costly idea. If Clark was like "I support it!" would it be enough for you to drop the book? And if so.....is the problem really Clark?
    Last edited by Ascended; 07-11-2019 at 02:44 PM.
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  15. #60
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Correct you are sir. Not the best word choice on my part.



    I think the entire concept of exploring real-world politics with Clark is a tightrope, honestly. Superman is, and should always be, for everyone. No one should feel like they're "left out" or "not allowed in" because Clark has different politics. Just look at this thread, we've got people on the left, right, the middle.....and most of us believe that, at least for the most part, Clark represents our views and reinforces what we believe to be right. Sure, there's some exceptions; Superman is very clearly against discrimination and a racist wouldn't be able to say otherwise, he's very clearly pro-immigration while some may think that foreigners shouldn't be allowed in at all, etc, but generally? I've seen people spin the character to fit their own ideals across the spectrum, and often they have solid arguments to support it. And in a lot of ways that's one of the character's biggest strengths; despite our different opinions we all believe we've got Clark in our corner. Superman is for everybody, right?

    But at the same time, you can't completely avoid politics, especially right now, and trying not to offend anyone at all often means not saying anything worth saying. And I think when Clark started dealing with aliens and super villains more often than corrupt businessmen or other "real" problems, he lost a lot of his bite (I love the crazy sci-fi Silver Age stuff, dont get me wrong, but I adore the social crusader too). Is a vanilla so bland no one hates it anyone's favorite flavor? You get what I mean?

    And I gotta wonder; have we reached a point where we can no longer enjoy or support something if it doesn't reflect our own ideas? How sad would that be, if we couldn't accept anything outside our own echo chamber? I think Clark has political opinions that don't mirror my own. I *know* Ollie Queen does (he's too left even for me). But that's never stopped me from enjoying either of them. Would it really be so terrible if Clark expressed a little more of an opinion on things? He stood up to the KKK, he championed tolerance and acceptance when most of the nation was still of the opinion that PoC and women didn't have the same rights as white men. Taking a stand never seemed to hurt his popularity then, can we be sure it would now?

    Stuff we dont like happens in the books all the time. Maybe someone thinks Clark shouldn't have kids at all, like Sacred (and to a lesser extent myself). Maybe someone doesnt like Jon Kent being aged-up. We're still reading because despite the things we dont like, there's still a lot we do. So if Clark expressed an opinion someone didn't agree with, why would it be any different from the other stuff? Maybe Clark is all in support of Space Force, and you think that's a stupid, costly idea. If Clark was like "I support it!" would it be enough for you to drop the book? And if so.....is the problem really Clark?
    I think it depends on the situation and the perspective. Right now, tensions are high because both parties (with a few exceptions) are gaming the system with identity politics or things that don't really matter as a means of galvanizing their respective bases - which is amplified by most mass media (on all sides), making the problem worse because all of it is weaponizing not only policy, but culture.. and even people who don't get policy are surrounded by culture, so they get caught up in it. Only lately has that barely started to shift, which is refreshing to see - even if it's in it's infancy and only the result of politics becoming a reality show glut-fest. In that environment, it can be hard to separate the politics from the people, and/or their art.

    However, I can still enjoy Lois & Clark and like Dean Cain even though I generally don't agree with and sometimes can't stand his politics (and I'm sure he'd find my Sanders-leaning as equally offensive as I find his like of Gorka, lol). That doesn't change the fact that he's one #ell of a nice guy, on-screen and in person. It was a treat meeting him. And his fans were lovely. I was in my Superman suit when we did, and one of them asked to take my picture. I of course said yes, and she asked if I could hold something - and they were a pair of Trump socks. When I hesitated, she said gently "oh, do you not like him?", to which I responded "Well, it's just that Superman should never endorse any political candidate - he should be for everybody." She said "wow, you're absolutely right, I didn't think of that" and gladly took my picture without them. Still makes me smile when I think about it.

    Back on topic: For something similar, look at Smallville since we discovered what we know now about Allison Mack. That's an extreme comparison, to be sure, but I bring it up because the political charge can sometimes be that strong in people's minds. Eventually, things will settle a bit and that won't be the case, but that'll take time for society to "de-program" itself. I'm ever the optimist, but I do think it'll happen in time.

    But for now - it's a fun thought-experiment to think of who we think he (and the rest of the cast) would support and why we feel that way, because this place is (gladly!) more about geekdom, and is barely political at all. And as you said, Superman should be the same way when it comes to individual candidates or identity politics on any side (and all sides have it to at least some degree). What he absolutely can and should take stands on is looking at other people as people, treating you fellow (hu)man with compassion, and standing up against oppression, greed, and corruption. Those are strong messages that, while sometimes they can seem political, are necessary and central enough that we can each follow to some degree, no matter what side we stand on.
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