Lois Lane #1

[JAK]

I find that an extra-ordinary stretch.

He can’t hear and see a bit more than a normal human...he can see and hear gazillions times more. Plus super speed, perfect memory. Plus the little matter..in some incarnations of super intelligence.

If his power set is taken seriously...he should be a better reporter.

But most super hero comics really aren’t remotely consistent. They start with the premise that some heroes have colossal powers...show those powers as operating sometimes, sometimes not.

If he’s using his superpowers to cheat (which is what you are implying he should do) than it doesn’t make him a better reporter than Lois. It makes him a cheater.

Lois is who she is distinctly because she doesn’t have that kind of privilege to fall back on. Her power is her drive and her power is the ability to push and go and pursue when other people might quit.

There is literally one thing in the world where Superman has to settle for being second best. One thing. That’s it. It certainly doesn’t bother Clark that he’s second best to her. If anything, it turns him on. Why does it bother you so much? Why does he have to be #1 at every last thing?

Just offering a bit of perspective on this, hope you both don't mind:

His powers aren't "cheating," but they also don't have much of anything to do with his journalistic skills. Good journalism is about what's done with information, not the information itself.

And while he's an exceptionally good reporter (particularly when he sets his mind to it) and they're certainly close enough that they're competitive (otherwise she'd just trounce him easily and we don't often see that happen), she's certainly better.

Jack, I know you addressed some of this a bit later in the thread, but I thought it was still relevant to what you talked about and wanted to make it clear that I'm just positing an overall observation as opposed to taking sides or whatnot.

[JackDaw]

Just offering a bit of perspective on this, hope you both don't mind:

His powers aren't "cheating," but they also don't have much of anything to do with his journalistic skills. Good journalism is about what's done with information, not the information itself.

And while he's an exceptionally good reporter (particularly when he sets his mind to it) and they're certainly close enough that they're competitive (otherwise she'd just trounce him easily and we don't often see that happen), she's certainly better.

Jack, I know you addressed some of this a bit later in the thread, but I thought it was still relevant to what you talked about and wanted to make it clear that I'm just positing an overall observation as opposed to taking sides or whatnot.

Always happy to debate comic issues. And interested in your view, which clarified my thinking on issues raised on this thread.

You’re right I think to suggest there are two issues:-

1/ Whether a fully powered Clark..if he 100 percent concentrated on reporting...would be a “better” reporter than Lois.

2/ Whether a Clark without his extreme physical powers (I assume loss of powers would not effect his intellect or character) would still be a very good reporter.

Before I take these questions, let me say one other thing. I know Lois has been consistently written over many years as the more successful reporter. This doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Indeed I think I understand reasons why this is done, and am glad it’s always been written this way.

Let me take the second question first. I think a non powered Clark would still be a superb reporter. I reject the notion that “Lois would mollywopp him”. I can expand on my reasons for this, if you disagree. But let me say I think it’s an important part of Clark’s character that he would pride himself on mastering the basics of his chosen trade. But yes..I accept Lois would be even better.

On issue of whether a fully powered Clark...if he concentrated solely on reporting and forgot super heroics...would be a more successful reporter than Lois..I disagree with you.

I think reporting is just as much (at least) about finding out information as styling the information into a news report. This is..where I think we disagree fundamentally. I think getting information (and backing it up by various means) is the bedrock of investigative journalism.

(Investigative journalism . Different..of course..when it comes to writing opinion pieces, humorous pieces, etc. But Lois and Clark are traditionally written as investigative journalists.)

In that process of info gathering...in my view one of reporting’s core activities..a fully powered Clark has a massive advantage over Lois or any other reporter.

And as far as I know no one has ever seriously suggested Clark struggles to write stylishly.

Of course, a fully powered Clark will never 100 percent concentrate on reporting. And this is one credible reason why Lois can be written as the more successful reporter.

[daBronzeBomma]

No, I wasn’t implying he should use his powers to “cheat”. (Though I find that a strange way to think about it, if he uses his powers to get info, then backs up that info via conventional means. That is no different to Lois getting a tip off from a paid informer.)

It IS different when that "paid informer" is ... yourself. The real issue here is Clark doesn't have any journalistic integrity when he is reporting on news involving Superman, who, once again, is himself. So, hell yeah, it's cheating. It's how he got his job at the DP in the first place. Clark games the system every time he writes about Superman, which is all the time. If Clark were anything other than journalist (for whom exposing the truth is the whole point) his secret identity wouldn't leave him open for charges of hypocrisy if the truth ever came out.

I was suggesting that if a guy is resourceful enough to be “worlds greatest hero” loves a job enough to do it when he can do any job in the world...then if you write him consistently he should master the basic skills of the job and become really, really good at it.

To write it any other way is to move away from writing as a superb all rounder..very intelligent as well as physically strong...to becoming solely reliant on his physical prowess.

We are not quite at Hulk levels of “me strongest there am” yet, but give it time!

Kal has lots of skills. It's just they mostly relate to his handling of his solar-powers. Kal is the Batman of solar-powered Kryptonians.

No one, not Kara Zor-El, not Karen Starr, not Jon, not Kon, not Val-Zod, not Calvin Ellis, not Krypto, not Dru-Zod, not Ursa, not Faora, not Non, not Car-Vex, not Jax-Ur, not Xa-Du, NO Kryptonian has or ever will master yellow solar power like Kal has.

And Clark has skills too (not just journalism skills, btw). But his non-power-related skills are always put on the back-burner until he loses his powers, only then his human skill-set shine. And most people aren't interested in a consistently non-powered Clark.

Genuine question: When was the last storyline that clearly focused on Clark's journalist skills while he still had all his powers? I can't recall, if it exists, but I doubt it attracted as big-time talent or sold as well as Lois' 1st issue is doing.

But for several years now we have seen Batman as way more of intelligent, multi-skilled and resourceful than Superman.

If Bruce has been a journalist since leaving school..everybody would expect him to be superb. I expect the same of Clark...including those periods where he has no powers.

At no point in his life has journalism been the top priority for Clark, powers or no powers. When he loses his powers, the focus doesn't become "now I'll focus on my journalistic career!", it's "I've got to get my powers back as fast as possible!"

Superman's powers are and will always be what pays the bills. His journalism is a nice bonus. He's very good but not great at it. Not compared to Lois.

Lois' journalism? That's EVERYTHING to her. Not her fallback. Not a choice among infinite others. She's been on this track since forever. Her integrity in the field never gets compromised the way Clark's does.

I don’t feel remotely “threatened” by Lois being a bit better journalist than Clarke. I was replying to daBronzeBomma’s notion that without powers Clark would be a far worse journalist than Lois. I think that sells Clark way short.

To use a sports analogy, think of comic-book journalists as NBA basketball players (starters). Just to get to that level means you are already better than everyone else in the world at your profession. You're better than every college player, every international player, every non-starter in your own league. But even at the top, there are levels.

In journalism, Clark is Scottie Pippen.

Lois is Michael Jordan.

[The World]

Personally I just like the idea that hard work pays off, you get out what you put in, etc. Lois works harder than pretty much anybody in the journalism game I think its a good message that she also gets the prestige of being the best.

If you look back into the Golden Age being a reporter was always more a means to an end than anything. Whether it was to gather information or disperse it, his job was just a thing he did and he's drop it over the course of his time in publication. Back in the Golden Age he would scoop Lois but it was more of a gag than anything, usually with Lois trying to figure out how he could get somewhere, know something so easily because she was missing the pieces as to how. It's fine as a joke but I think if we're to take it more seriously and modern comics almost always do it doesn't really fit his character to be trying to out do people he has a million advantages over. It doesn't really help Superman or the franchise for him to be the best reporter. It's why the football thing is dumb.

[JackDaw]

It IS different when that "paid informer" is ... yourself. The real issue here is Clark doesn't have any journalistic integrity when he is reporting on news involving Superman, who, once again, is himself. So, hell yeah, it's cheating. It's how he got his job at the DP in the first place. Clark games the system every time he writes about Superman, which is all the time. If Clark were anything other than journalist (for whom exposing the truth is the whole point) his secret identity wouldn't leave him open for charges of hypocrisy if the truth ever came .

I think Clark’s “journalistic integrity” is largely intact..certainly higher than zero even reporting on the doings of Superman.

First I think there is no ethical requirement to report ALL the truth. Indeed there are clear cases where that would be a profoundly unethical thing to do. A journalist might discover the details of how to create a bomb or wage germ warfare...it would be profoundly unethical to publish.

Other cases..are of course..more borderline...for example if publishing details of some corrupt government officials might profoundly damage the career of the journalists own informers...the reporter will have a profoundly difficult choice to make. Factors like degree of damage to the informers would have to be weighed against allowing the corrupt practices go unchecked.

It is by no means as simple as “I know the truth therefore I must publish it”. The ethical journalist must make a judgment call.

But if decision is made to publish ..then what he publishes must be true to best of journalists knowledge.

I think Clark has weighed up balance of public benefit to public knowing his secret identity (nobody is being hurt to any degree by refusing to publish) against degree of damage to his friends, family and self...and come to a justified (and ethical) decision not to run this particular story...

After that...when he does publish Superman stories, does he get the facts right? Pretty sure he does! So he passes the second ethical test...that when he decides to run stories he tells truth to best of his ability. (Just not the whole truth.)

Heatwave expected tomorrow...so I will most likely lounge round house all day and at some point post some thoughts on rest of your latest missive...but sadly far less interesting stuff has to be done this evening.

[manwhohaseverything]

Since, we are talking about Clark's journalists integrity. What do you guys think of this?

[JackDaw]

Since, we are talking about Clark's journalists integrity. What do you guys think of this?
]

Amusing and made some good points.

But must admit the funniest moment came in last thirty seconds (approx)...when after over 14 minutes on need for lack of bias, a product is plugged super strong...there was naff all evidence there of worrying about objectively assessing merit of something. Not when advertising revenue is at stake!

[daBronzeBomma]

I feel like we're derailing the thread with the current topic.

Clark Kent's career and legitimate skills in pure journalism deserves its own thread.

Let's bring the focus back to the 1st issue of LOIS LANE.

Two questions:

1. I know Leviathan will be the primary focus of this series, but do you think we'll get any scenes with Lucy or Ella? I'm sure Sam will turn up as his fate should be a plot point (as will Jon), but I don't know what the status is of her sister and mom post-Rebirth.

2. Besides the Questions, what other non-Superverse guest stars might show up? Personally, I'm really rooting for a Lois/Selina team-up, as well as a Lois/Diana/Steve interaction. No idea if this will happen, but the first issue makes me think this series will be a bit like Luthor's BLACK RING saga in terms of guest-stars.