Spider-Man Far From Home SPOILERS!

[Jekyll]

So we discussed general feelings/thoughts to the film in the other thread. This thread is for more specifics.

spoilers:

The Mid Credit scene genuinely surprised me! They have definitely upped the stakes for Spidey. Now that his identity is out what do you think they will do? Who are they going to have come after him? .

end of spoilers


Also, where would you rank this to previous spider-man films? I place this at no. 3 behind Spiderverse on my list.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

FULL SPOILERS

I'll be seeing it again with some family, so maybe my opinion will change. I think it's maybe as good if not slightly better than Homecoming. So it's basically a toss between fourth and fifth place (Top 3 is ITSV>Spider-Man 1> Spider-Man 2).

The flaws of the movie are more or less the flaws of the first film. The choices baked into inserting Spider-Man into MCU at very short notice and the decision to make MCU Spider-Man into an Iron Man sub-franchise and legacy. To me those flaws continue to hamper it. It was fine if we were promised Marvel Team-Up and maybe Part 2 will have him team up with Cap or Ant-Man or whoever, but now that's not gonna happen. At this rate, we can forget about seeing Spider-Man vs. Juggernaut which is what a Spider-Man in a shared universe should be focused on in terms of priorities. The stuff I liked in Far From Home is more or less the Endgame fallout, Zendaya's stuff and so on. But Jon Watts continues to be a weak director of these movies and I think a poor horse for this racecourse.

spoilers:

As for Mysterio...I felt they misread the character by making him a scientist. He's an artist. I think the goofy special effects stuff and so on should have been retained. And the constant grudge match against Tony Stark these movies have are getting annoying and pointless. If this was done before Civil War and Peter fought for Cap against Tony and came to blows with Iron Man then at least it would have meant something. Now we have a situation where bad guys have legitimate grievances against Iron Man but are also evil, and so there's no actual catharsis for this. It's a pointless source of conflict. The lack of Uncle Ben. I am sorry Mysterio creates a vision of Peter's worst nightmare and it's Tin Man Downey Jr and not Uncle Ben. In the words of Norman Osborn, "I have a bridge to sell you". Simmons coming back as Jameson. I have mixed feelings about that. I like seeing Simmons' Jameson but I don't know what that's supposed to mean. For one thing, MCU Jameson doesn't know Peter, has never employed him, and so on, so the entire basis of their relationship is simply not there. By casting Simmons, the film-makers want the emotions we retain from the Tobey movies and give it to Tom Holland's movies without the latter earning it. The other thing about Peter's identity being outed...again all of Peter's supporting cast know his identity, Vulture knows, the entire superhero community knows, and MCU Peter's inept at keeping his identity secret, so there's nothing at stake for this reveal to screw up. In Civil War, Jameson didn't know until Peter unmasked himself, Peter's job as a high school teacher was compromised and so on, Dr. Octopus went berserk about being humiliated by a teenage Peter and so on. In USM, Bendis made Peter's unmasking a signal that he was gonna die and it was there to drive stakes and it was tragic...here I just felt nothing. To me the post-credits scene, felt like clickbait. I wish they went with Simmons' Jameson showing up at the end-credits, and Peter getting a summer internship there and the next movie set their relationship. I mean in the next movie, if they have MCU Peter dying and Miles coming in, I am like okay we're getting rid of the incompetent and an actual professional is coming in because they haven't sold MCU Peter the way Bendis did Ultimate Peter for Miles coming in to be "in bad taste". If the next movie is about Dr. Strange making the world forget Peter's identity and so on...then the fourth movie is going to be a "back to basics" take where we have Peter in a world with everyone knowing his identity, I would be like...we are waiting three movies to see a legit Spider-Man story?

end of spoilers

[WebSlingWonder]

FULL SPOILERS

I'll be seeing it again with some family, so maybe my opinion will change. I think it's maybe as good if not slightly better than Homecoming. So it's basically a toss between fourth and fifth place (Top 3 is ITSV>Spider-Man 1> Spider-Man 2).

The flaws of the movie are more or less the flaws of the first film. The choices baked into inserting Spider-Man into MCU at very short notice and the decision to make MCU Spider-Man into an Iron Man sub-franchise and legacy. To me those flaws continue to hamper it. It was fine if we were promised Marvel Team-Up and maybe Part 2 will have him team up with Cap or Ant-Man or whoever, but now that's not gonna happen. At this rate, we can forget about seeing Spider-Man vs. Juggernaut which is what a Spider-Man in a shared universe should be focused on in terms of priorities. The stuff I liked in Far From Home is more or less the Endgame fallout, Zendaya's stuff and so on. But Jon Watts continues to be a weak director of these movies and I think a poor horse for this racecourse.

spoilers:

As for Mysterio...I felt they misread the character by making him a scientist. He's an artist. I think the goofy special effects stuff and so on should have been retained. And the constant grudge match against Tony Stark these movies have are getting annoying and pointless. If this was done before Civil War and Peter fought for Cap against Tony and came to blows with Iron Man then at least it would have meant something. Now we have a situation where bad guys have legitimate grievances against Iron Man but are also evil, and so there's no actual catharsis for this. It's a pointless source of conflict. The lack of Uncle Ben. I am sorry Mysterio creates a vision of Peter's worst nightmare and it's Tin Man Downey Jr and not Uncle Ben. In the words of Norman Osborn, "I have a bridge to sell you". Simmons coming back as Jameson. I have mixed feelings about that. I like seeing Simmons' Jameson but I don't know what that's supposed to mean. For one thing, MCU Jameson doesn't know Peter, has never employed him, and so on, so the entire basis of their relationship is simply not there. By casting Simmons, the film-makers want the emotions we retain from the Tobey movies and give it to Tom Holland's movies without the latter earning it. The other thing about Peter's identity being outed...again all of Peter's supporting cast know his identity, Vulture knows, the entire superhero community knows, and MCU Peter's inept at keeping his identity secret, so there's nothing at stake for this reveal to screw up. In Civil War, Jameson didn't know until Peter unmasked himself, Peter's job as a high school teacher was compromised and so on, Dr. Octopus went berserk about being humiliated by a teenage Peter and so on. In USM, Bendis made Peter's unmasking a signal that he was gonna die and it was there to drive stakes and it was tragic...here I just felt nothing. To me the post-credits scene, felt like clickbait. I wish they went with Simmons' Jameson showing up at the end-credits, and Peter getting a summer internship there and the next movie set their relationship.

end of spoilers

Let me ask you something: do you actually like Spider-Man?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Let me ask you something: do you actually like Spider-Man?

I have never been entirely satisfied with any live-action version of Spider-Man, if that's what you mean. And there are legitimate dramatic issues with the choices taken in this movie that again because of the surprise and the nature of the marketing, people are giving a free pass on for the time being. I think in general people are overly forgiving of the MCU movies simply because it's better than ASM and Spider-Man 3. I find the MCU movies more frustrating than bad. I liked Spider-Man best when he showed in CIVIL WAR and it's a real shame that the Russos couldn't handle the solo Spider-Man movies and instead it was handled to someone like Jon Watts.

The issues about Spider-Man stem from the fact that unlike the X-Men and the FF, who Feige has all the time in the world to carefully integrate and introduce into the MCU, the Spider-Man movies had to be inserted very quickly and at short notice into an ongoing franchise and the seams show in the too-hasty integration. They cast a character actor in a lead actor's part, and we have a fairly one-dimensional version of Peter Parker in these movies.

[Mister Mets]

The talk about the ending is probably going to overshadow everything else, but I think it was really well-paced.

spoilers:

The brief conversation between Peter, May and Happy is framed as if he's confessing to the world that he's Spider-Man, which bookends nicely with the later reveal. With Homecoming largely set in the suburbs, and this film largely set in different European cities, Director Jon Watts has made conscious decisions not to repeat visuals from earlier Spider-Man films, so when the MCU Spider-Man is swinging through New York City in broad daylight, which is probably the most iconic Spider-Man visual, this is the first time we've really seen that happen. It creates the impression that this Spider-Man has arrived, that he's done with the origin story. Peter flying w/ MJ is fun. The Alex Jones-ish J. Jonah Jameson debut is excellent. The first big surprise is that we've got JK Simmons back as Jonah, after a period of twelve years. It's the right approach. When he blames Spider-Man for Mysterio's death, that seems like a good enough final twist. Peter Parker is going to be the superhero who no one can trust. And then they've got the big reveal. In the post-credits scene, the idea that the Nick Fury and Maria Hill of this film were Skrulls, helps avoid any problems with characterization in a film that requires Nick Fury to make some big mistakes.

end of spoilers

[Revolutionary_Jack]

With Homecoming largely set in the suburbs, and this film largely set in different European cities, Director Jon Watts has made conscious decisions not to repeat visuals from earlier Spider-Man films,

Which is super-annoying. I mean imagine people being ashamed of having a Batcave or Gotham City or so on just because previous movies did it.

spoilers:

The Alex Jones-ish J. Jonah Jameson debut is excellent. The first big surprise is that we've got JK Simmons back as Jonah, after a period of twelve years. It's the right approach.

end of spoilers

I am not comfortable with that.

spoilers:

Because JJ isn't Alex Jones. JJ is a good reporter with a conscience who just happens to hate Spider-Man. He's Spider-Man's guilty conscience. He is the one decent guy with a vice and lapse of judgment, not totally insincere and cynical. He's not a racist conspiracy theorist nutcase. This is the guy who dumped a white supremacist like Bullitt even if he promised to hunt down Spider-Man. Framing Jameson as Alex Jones is the false-good-idea.

end of spoilers

I mean, to be honest, and this goes for everyone: if we set our expectations sky high, we'll always be disappointed. I wasn't expecting this movie to be say Spidey PS4 level (which I consider to be the absolute closest next to "Spectacular Spider-Man") but I'm hoping for a good time. If it can give me that, I'm good.

Since cinema is a more prestigious art-form than games and cartoons, it should be the other way around...i.e. lower standards for games and cartoons who genuinely do have excuses when it comes to budget/voice casting/medium problems than in live-action (people paid higher than any field in the arts).

[WebSlingWonder]

I have never been entirely satisfied with any live-action version of Spider-Man, if that's what you mean. And there are legitimate dramatic issues with the choices taken in this movie that again because of the surprise and the nature of the marketing, people are giving a free pass on for the time being. I think in general people are overly forgiving of the MCU movies simply because it's better than ASM and Spider-Man 3. I find the MCU movies more frustrating than bad. I liked Spider-Man best when he showed in CIVIL WAR and it's a real shame that the Russos couldn't handle the solo Spider-Man movies and instead it was handled to someone like Jon Watts.

The issues about Spider-Man stem from the fact that unlike the X-Men and the FF, who Feige has all the time in the world to carefully integrate and introduce into the MCU, the Spider-Man movies had to be inserted very quickly and at short notice into an ongoing franchise and the seams show in the too-hasty integration. They cast a character actor in a lead actor's part, and we have a fairly one-dimensional version of Peter Parker in these movies.

I mean, to be honest, and this goes for everyone: if we set our expectations sky high, we'll always be disappointed. I wasn't expecting this movie to be say Spidey PS4 level (which I consider to be the absolute closest next to "Spectacular Spider-Man") but I'm hoping for a good time. If it can give me that, I'm good.

[Snoop Dogg]

my wife pretended to blip

[Celgress]

...Spidey PS4 level...

The PS4 game is top notch it is not much below Into the Spiderverse or Spider 2 in terms of quality, IMO.

[Noronha]

Let me ask you something: do you actually like Spider-Man?

I love Spider-Man and I don't like this "Spider-man".
This is Iron Boy with some elements of Spider-Man (names of the characters basically).

We have a Peter, MJ, May, Ned, Betty etc, but they are just there...

I agree that in this universe Peter´s uncle Ben is Stark, everything he does or thinks he should do, begins and ends with Tony.
That to me isn't appealing.

I thought the dynamic between MJ and Peter in HC with nicely established, the seeds were carefully planted, and here they just hit you in the head with it.
It goes from, there might be something there, to...OMYGODIMSOINLOVEWITHMJICANHARDLYBREAD in the first scene.

Mysterio on the other hand, just like the Vulture in HC, was perfect.
The way they adapted his character and his "powers of illusion" to the movie was flawless, thanks to fantastic CGI and a very good performance be Gyllenhaal.

I like Tom Holland though and would love to see him with more spider-man content and less marvel iron boy

[WebSlingWonder]

I love Spider-Man and I don't like this "Spider-man".
This is Iron Boy with some elements of Spider-Man (names of the characters basically).

We have a Peter, MJ, May, Ned, Betty etc, but they are just there...

I agree that in this universe Peter´s uncle Ben is Stark, everything he does or thinks he should do, begins and ends with Tony.
That to me isn't appealing.

I thought the dynamic between MJ and Peter in HC with nicely established, the seeds were carefully planted, and here they just hit you in the head with it.
It goes from, there might be something there, to...OMYGODIMSOINLOVEWITHMJICANHARDLYBREAD in the first scene.

Mysterio on the other hand, just like the Vulture in HC, was perfect.
The way they adapted his character and his "powers of illusion" to the movie was flawless, thanks to fantastic CGI and a very good performance be Gyllenhaal.

I like Tom Holland though and would love to see him with more spider-man content and less marvel iron boy

I was actually just asking Revolutionary_Jack, but thank you for your input!

[Noronha]

I love Spider-Man and I don't like this "Spider-man".
This is Iron Boy with some elements of Spider-Man (names of the characters basically).

We have a Peter, MJ, May, Ned, Betty etc, but they are just there...

I agree that in this universe Peter´s uncle Ben is Stark, everything he does or thinks he should do, begins and ends with Tony.
That to me isn't appealing.

I thought the dynamic between MJ and Peter in HC with nicely established, the seeds were carefully planted, and here they just hit you in the head with it.
It goes from, there might be something there, to...OMYGODIMSOINLOVEWITHMJICANHARDLYBREAD in the first scene.

Mysterio on the other hand, just like the Vulture in HC, was perfect.
The way they adapted his character and his "powers of illusion" to the movie was flawless, thanks to fantastic CGI and a very good performance be Gyllenhaal.

I like Tom Holland though and would love to see him with more spider-man content and less marvel iron boy

Another thing that bother me and took me out of the SM feel is the absence of stakes.

SM in the MCU isn´t alone and he isn't the underdog fighting against the odds, triumphing through his guts/brilliance/perseverance.

The moment he is defeated and left stranded in the middle of nowhere in freaking Holland, he just makes a phone call, gets a private jet to pick him up, receives a pep talk, a new costume and he is off after Mysterio...

And I didn't even mention Nick Fury backing him up in the first half of the movie

[Scott Taylor]

This movie was great, Mysterio was truly amazing and I can't believe how well they modernized yet remained true to the character. The only "flaw" for me is that its still a Disney made-for TV franchise. The schoolkids, teachers, all the goofiness when characters are interacting. This thing is half serous Spider-Man movie and half run of the mill typical Disney teen flick. Also its the Ultimate verse rather than the 616, like all the rest of the MCU, which is just a lesser universe than the one Stan Lee built. This comes out especially with the "Iron Boy" stuff that continues and the interconnectivity of everything that happens to Stark and/or the Avengers. Bendis lives on at Marvel.

So my new up-to-date Spidey movie list preferences:

1. Spider-Man 2 - still perfection
2. Into the Spider-Verse - near perfection, but points knocked off for some weak villainy
3. Spider-Man 1 - flawed but its solidly the 616 and had great set up material
4. Spider-Man 3 - honestly I could flip this with Spider-Man 1 and be ok. They are about equal to me.
5. Spider-Man: Far From Home - yep this is closest to Raimi yet! Even had you know who in an after-credits scene, I mean wow
6. Spider-Man: Homecoming - good flick
7. Amazing Spider-Man 2 - Polished turd
8. Unpolished turd that was ASM

[Mister Mets]

Another thing that bother me and took me out of the SM feel is the absence of stakes.

SM in the MCU isn´t alone and he isn't the underdog fighting against the odds, triumphing through his guts/brilliance/perseverance.

The moment he is defeated and left stranded in the middle of nowhere in freaking Holland, he just makes a phone call, gets a private jet to pick him up, receives a pep talk, a new costume and he is off after Mysterio...

And I didn't even mention Nick Fury backing him up in the first half of the movie

There is also a big gap between the apparent stakes early on (the destruction of the world) and Peter wanting to hang out with his friends.

[exile001]

SM in the MCU isn´t alone and he isn't the underdog fighting against the odds, triumphing through his guts/brilliance/perseverance.

This is the entire final act of the movie. Spider-man goes into battle alone against impossible odds, a threat who has the power and intention of leveling London/UK/Europe (it kinda changes), with nothing more than a suit he made on the fly (accidental pun, I'm keeping it). In the end he literally closes his eyes and relies only on his Spider-Sense (that is it's name, screw you movie! Lol). That is the most Spider-man thing you can do!

In the same vein as the first movie, he has help and support throughout the movies and tends to fail or fall short. When his back is against the wall, when there is no one around to help him, he somehow plucks up his courage and rises to the occasion, gets his ass kicked and still gets up to find a way to win. This was actually something Ditko put in this early issues to keep Spider-man away from other heroes, usually with Spidery and Human Torch.