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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Default Amazons and baby boys

    I said this on the controversial thread about the amazons having children. That their children are reborn souls of girls being abandoned or killed has infants. Someone said what about boys. If this id handled well how should the Amazons deal with boys? Why should no man enter on Paradise Island? I think due to the fact Ares is now on the Island that Ares wants the men to conquer the Amazons.
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  2. #2
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I said this on the controversial thread about the amazons having children. That their children are reborn souls of girls being abandoned or killed has infants. Someone said what about boys. If this id handled well how should the Amazons deal with boys? Why should no man enter on Paradise Island? I think due to the fact Ares is now on the Island that Ares wants the men to conquer the Amazons.
    If my ancient memory serves me right, it use to be something like this:
    * Golden-Age to pre-CoIE = Amazons didn't have babies (hence Diana created from clay)
    * post-CoIE = under George Pérez' tenure(?), the idea of children of the Amazons as "reborn souls of girls being abandoned or killed" was introduced
    * post-Flashpoint/New52 revision = Amazons become pregnant through encounters with sailors; any male infants are given to Hephaestus and are forced to work for him

    Personally, with an all-female society like the Amazons, especially if they normally don't leave the island, avoiding the issue of children / pregnancy makes the most sense.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Pérez had the original Amazons come from the souls of women killed by "man's ear and ignorance"; Diana is the first child among them "in over 30 centuries".

    My personal take on it would be that there were children born on Themyscira—both male and female—by Amazons already pregnant when they arrived, and likely some children arriving with them as well. The girls were raised as Amazons, and were Diana's childhood friends and those who competed against her in the contest. The boys were given to the care of the Patrons, probably Artemis and Hermes. Their fate is unknown to the Amazons. The knowledge about them is a shameful secret and source of sorrow for the original Amazons.

    (That's also how I'd give Diana a brother. It is Hippolyta's first-born son to an unknown father.)
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I like the idea that Diana is the only child of the Amazons as it makes her unique and gives a different perspective than the rest of her sisters. At least I liked how Perez presented it. The familiarity Diana had with all Amazons and how some had a more familial vibe.

    The clay birth works best for me as well, because I like how it blends somewhat into Diana finding a family of choice over a family of genetics. For that same reason, I prefer Donna Troy's original origin. It shows Diana showing up for a lost, alone little girl, seeing something special in her, and embracing her as family, along with Hippolyta and the other Amazons.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    If my ancient memory serves me right, it use to be something like this:
    * Golden-Age to pre-CoIE = Amazons didn't have babies (hence Diana created from clay)
    * post-CoIE = under George Pérez' tenure(?), the idea of children of the Amazons as "reborn souls of girls being abandoned or killed" was introduced
    * post-Flashpoint/New52 revision = Amazons become pregnant through encounters with sailors; any male infants are given to Hephaestus and are forced to work for him

    Personally, with an all-female society like the Amazons, especially if they normally don't leave the island, avoiding the issue of children / pregnancy makes the most sense.
    Actually the Golden Age amazons did have children(from clay). Mala was one of them. In one comic we have Diana's 7th birthday with the other Amazon children. All the Golden Age Amazons were born of clay and the children they wanted were to.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 07-04-2019 at 09:16 AM.
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  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Pérez had the original Amazons come from the souls of women killed by "man's ear and ignorance"; Diana is the first child among them "in over 30 centuries".

    My personal take on it would be that there were children born on Themyscira—both male and female—by Amazons already pregnant when they arrived, and likely some children arriving with them as well. The girls were raised as Amazons, and were Diana's childhood friends and those who competed against her in the contest. The boys were given to the care of the Patrons, probably Artemis and Hermes. Their fate is unknown to the Amazons. The knowledge about them is a shameful secret and source of sorrow for the original Amazons.

    (That's also how I'd give Diana a brother. It is Hippolyta's first-born son to an unknown father.)
    What if instead Ares had kidnapped them? That he found away to get the boys to be his servants?
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  7. #7
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    What if instead Ares had kidnapped them? That he found away to get the boys to be his servants?
    Nah. That seems really icky. The trading for weapons from Hephaestus was weird enough.

  8. #8
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    True. I just don't like the idea of the Amazons giving away their children. Unless something was going to happen to the men. Maybe some of the Amazons moved to a Island to take care of their sons instead of giving them away.
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  9. #9
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    What if instead Ares had kidnapped them? That he found away to get the boys to be his servants?
    Apart from what CRaymond wrote, it wouldn't fit thematically. What if the price the Amazons had to pay for their refuge of Themyscira was literally to give up half of their children?

    If a writer gets to explore this, I don't want it to be any evil acts or dark secrets or conspiracies involved. Shame, love, regret, and longing yes, but not evil acts.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Apart from what CRaymond wrote, it wouldn't fit thematically. What if the price the Amazons had to pay for their refuge of Themyscira was literally to give up half of their children?

    If a writer gets to explore this, I don't want it to be any evil acts or dark secrets or conspiracies involved. Shame, love, regret, and longing yes, but not evil acts.
    But much llike Banas. I feel like some Amazons still had their sons on the Island. One thing could also work that the original contest was for amazons who gave up their children were to fight to visit their sons. So a number of stories can be explored. Why would the price of half their kids be refuge.That would be a great reason. Maybe out of fear from some of the Amazons.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 07-04-2019 at 10:01 AM.
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  11. #11
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    But much llike Banas. I feel like some Amazons still had their sons on the Island. One thing could also work that the original contest was for amazons who gave up their children were to fight to visit their sons. So a number of stories can be explored. Why would the price of half their kids be refuge. That would be a great reason. Maybe out of fear from some of the Amazons.
    By the way, how are you having the Amazons become mothers in the first place?

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    By the way, how are you having the Amazons become mothers in the first place?
    There is the clay baby way. Then, as mentioned earlier, the original Amazons could have had children before being separated from the rest of the world, with the boys being taken in for safe keeping by someone like Hermes. Another could be that, over the years to see what's happening in the outside world, the Amazons would send a champion out to learn about the latest changes.

    It would explain the origins of someone like Grace Choi (half Amazon herself). And it would also fill in there being a Wonder Woman (perhaps Hippolyta herself) being with the JSA.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    That children are reborn on the Island. infant children or sent to Paradise Island and are nursed back to care and are adopted by the Amazons. I would have Donna be one of them. When Diana is is still a child.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 07-04-2019 at 10:59 AM.
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  14. #14
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    Here's my headfanon. I addressed the childbearing issue by making it the reward for winning an Amazonian Contest.

    The exiled Amazons arrived at the magical islands of Themyscira and quickly reestablished the Amazonian capital, complete with emissaries sent to the centaurs, cyclops, sirens and harpies also settled on the island. In accordance with their patrons, the Amazons tended the orchards of divine fruit and maintained everlasting peace.

    Within the first hundred years on Themyscira, the Amazons were forced to deal with considerable changes to their bodies, thoughts, and feelings. Due to the celestial vegetation in their diet, Amazons gained a cumulative sense of time that increased reaction speed in most cases, and prophetic visions in very few. They would practice and refine this skill by deflecting arrows.

    ...

    Sadly, decades of immortality was too much for some Amazons to bear. A few killed themselves, a few went mad, and many longed for children they could never have on an island full of women. To address the risk to their population and bring purpose to her people, Hippolyte instituted the Contest. Every thirty years, all Amazons would compete in a series of games. The winners would venture to the Outside World, return with the technology of the age, and life in her womb.
    I wanted to make the island's pocket realm magically incompatible with "males". It would sicken and decompose male creatures, humans, and gods, keeping the Amazons safe. It would also immediately abort male fetuses, and prevent male Amazons before birth. What I didn't consider is male vegetation or animals --because I can't see divine immortality extending all the way to algae and bacterium.

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I agree that the Island should be dangerous to males. At nightfall males will turn into creatures. Unless the Amazons gave any of the males their blessing by giving them bracelets. There are several different bracelets. It terms of protecting the Amazons is it something the Amazons can control or more divine? I don't know I feel it can go both ways. That the Amazons created a pocket dimensions and found a way to control who comes in the Island. Why be harmful to men maybe the Amazons in their angry did it or maybe someone like Hera did it so Zeus can never enter the Island.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 07-04-2019 at 02:34 PM.
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