MCU - Next Big Villain?

[Derek Metaltron]

If they don’t want to do a Doom solo film the logical thing to do is tell his origin via a Doctor Strange movie. Adapt Torment and Triumph and reveal Victor as a former student of the Ancient One... and yes I know going rogue after being her disciple might end up being a bit of a cliche but it works perfectly for a pre armour bandage wrapped Doom to have studied under her before seeking elsewhere.

[AJBopp]

I really don't understand why people are saying Doom couldn't be his own movie.

Think about it this way. Take any MCU movie you want, especially the origin movies. People here talk of a Marvel formula. Some hate it, some say it's ridiculously successfully. But clearly it's a consistent approach to movie making that they are going to stick with until they have reason not to.

Now, let's take a character like Doom. Who the hell wants that character dropped into a Marvel formula solo movie? Seriously?

People have already complained about Iron Man and Captain America being too "quippy." What sort of howls of rage would occur if you drop Doom in the middle of that?

This is what I mean when I say he can't hold a solo movie within the context of what the MCU is. You can make the story work (kind of), not not in this context. Not even close.

[Flash Gordon]

Think about it this way. Take any MCU movie you want, especially the origin movies. People here talk of a Marvel formula. Some hate it, some say it's ridiculously successfully. But clearly it's a consistent approach to movie making that they are going to stick with until they have reason not to.

Now, let's take a character like Doom. Who the hell wants that character dropped into a Marvel formula solo movie? Seriously?

People have already complained about Iron Man and Captain America being too "quippy." What sort of howls of rage would occur if you drop Doom in the middle of that?

This is what I mean when I say he can't hold a solo movie within the context of what the MCU is. You can make the story work (kind of), not not in this context. Not even close.

Meh, time to break the formula. Get weirder.

Bring on DOOM.

[Punisher007]

Doom, Doom, and more Doom.

[Midvillian1322]

Think about it this way. Take any MCU movie you want, especially the origin movies. People here talk of a Marvel formula. Some hate it, some say it's ridiculously successfully. But clearly it's a consistent approach to movie making that they are going to stick with until they have reason not to.

Now, let's take a character like Doom. Who the hell wants that character dropped into a Marvel formula solo movie? Seriously?

People have already complained about Iron Man and Captain America being too "quippy." What sort of howls of rage would occur if you drop Doom in the middle of that?

This is what I mean when I say he can't hold a solo movie within the context of what the MCU is. You can make the story work (kind of), not not in this context. Not even close.

Cap is Quippy? Black Panther told a story where the bad guy was a sympathetic mass murdering psychopath who had a point(A small one but at the root of his idea he had a point.) Tchaka was shown to not to only being deeply flawed but self aware.

To your point coukd they make a Doom movie with Victor being an unbearable jerk? No they would have to make him Sympathetic and some level of likable to fit into what the MCU does. But that doesn't mean he has to be quippy. I mean Tchalla was very stoic, Strange was badly quippy in his solo movie but I think Marvel heard the complaints because he has been pretty pitch perfect in ever appearance since. Anyway off topic they can do a Doom movie, Doom can have plenty of likea le qualities without turning him into a jokster. Especialy if it's based on him taking over Latveria. You can have him do some evil **** but show how hes doing it for his people. Basicaly what you would have to do with Namor. Though Namor can be such a smartass dick that's its swing back around to funny

[Flash Gordon]

Doom can be likable without being someone you'd want around you. He can be a terrible person, but someone you enjoy watching. That's good storytelling.

The formula of the Marvel flicks is just so boring. Do something like Civil War and spice it up.

[Theleviathan]

The idea that Marvel has one formula is bizarre. They make fun, entertaining movies. Their movies are well paced, have good effects, have humor and action, and often can be very serious, dark, or challenging if need be.

The idea that they have some set formula that Doom can't fit is nonsense. Almost as much nonsense as the idea that they are boring or simple. They aren't winning anyone awards as the pinnacle of humanity, but they are slick, fun, well produced, cohesive stories that people have embraced the **** out of. Even if you don't personally feel enraptured, the cultural effect is undeniable.

[Flash Gordon]

The idea that Marvel has one formula is bizarre. They make fun, entertaining movies. Their movies are well paced, have good effects, have humor and action, and often can be very serious, dark, or challenging if need be.

The idea that they have some set formula that Doom can't fit is nonsense. Almost as much nonsense as the idea that they are boring or simple. They aren't winning anyone awards as the pinnacle of humanity, but they are slick, fun, well produced, cohesive stories that people have embraced the **** out of. Even if you don't personally feel enraptured, the cultural effect is undeniable.

The Russo Brothers are largely the only cats that seem to know how to bend the formulaic structure to their needs and make something interesting. Even they fall prey to stuff like the airport fight in CIVIL WAR where the whole movie screeches to a sudden halt for *insert middle fight sequence*.

I would love to see these flicks break out of all of that. I thought they would with Dr. Strange honestly, perfect chance to- but that was so safe. Give us more stuff like Thor's subplot in IW, holding open a star to forge his hammer. Weird, cool stuff that doesn't just tie A to B to C.

[Theleviathan]

The Russo Brothers are largely the only cats that seem to know how to bend the formulaic structure to their needs and make something interesting. Even they fall prey to stuff like the airport fight in CIVIL WAR where the whole movie screeches to a sudden halt for *insert middle fight sequence*.

I would love to see these flicks break out of all of that. I thought they would with Dr. Strange honestly, perfect chance to- but that was so safe. Give us more stuff like Thor's subplot in IW, holding open a star to forge his hammer. Weird, cool stuff that doesn't just tie A to B to C.

They do those things plenty. If they made entire movies about it they'd get criticized for that too.

[Punisher007]

Doom can be a person who can understand and perhaps even empathize with to a degree, while still being "bad." I mean plenty of fans do that with Loki, Killmonger, heck even Thanos, yet they're all decidedly not "good." It's all in how you do it.

Doom believes that what he does will ultimately make the world better, and he has a certain twisted code of honor. So there's a decent basis to build from right there.

[Flash Gordon]

They do those things plenty. If they made entire movies about it they'd get criticized for that too.

Where, outside of the Russo Brothers stuff?

[Theleviathan]

Where, outside of the Russo Brothers stuff?

What "stuff" do you need to see exactly?

Black Panther wrestled with some meaty racial and injustice issues. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 dealt with sacrifice and family. Iron Man wrestled with sacrifice and terrorism. You can talk about how well any of these were pulled off, but to suggest only the Russos (who, by the way, account for a pretty god damn big chunk of the MCU) did it falls flat to me.

[Flash Gordon]

What "stuff" do you need to see exactly?

Black Panther wrestled with some meaty racial and injustice issues. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 dealt with sacrifice and family. Iron Man wrestled with sacrifice and terrorism. You can talk about how well any of these were pulled off, but to suggest only the Russos (who, by the way, account for a pretty god damn big chunk of the MCU) did it falls flat to me.

"Sacrifice and family" is about as vague as it gets, though. For the most part these flicks flirt with lofty ideas but leave them in the lofts. Black Panther had some really great ideas pulsing through it, especially with Killmonger, but that stuff just culminates into big CGI battle and forgets itself.

I "get" that Disney is a giant corporation that has seized up the media, so you cant expect things to always catch a landing- but lofty is just lofty.

You said that they do weird esoteric all the time. I pointed to Thor's subplot in IW as one of the only times I've seen something actually weird and fun play out that wasnt just plot driven.

Now, I think a flick about Doctor Doom being Doom-y would be really different if they went that way. In the way that Kingpin was so well done in Daredevil (actually all the Netflix Marvel bad guys were well done and genuinely spooky!)

[Theleviathan]

"Sacrifice and family" is about as vague as it gets, though. For the most part these flicks flirt with lofty ideas but leave them in the lofts. Black Panther had some really great ideas pulsing through it, especially with Killmonger, but that stuff just culminates into big CGI battle and forgets itself.

I "get" that Disney is a giant corporation that has seized up the media, so you cant expect things to always catch a landing- but lofty is just lofty.

You said that they do weird esoteric all the time. I pointed to Thor's subplot in IW as one of the only times I've seen something actually weird and fun play out that wasnt just plot driven.

Now, I think a flick about Doctor Doom being Doom-y would be really different if they went that way. In the way that Kingpin was so well done in Daredevil (actually all the Netflix Marvel bad guys were well done and genuinely spooky!)

I guess I'm unclear what you're looking for that Thor's thing in IW represents. Or why it can't be "plot driven".

But I did love Purple Man, Kingpin, and Cottonmouth. But I also love Loki, Thanos, Zemo, the Winter Soldier, and even the wonky stuff in Iron Man 3.

[Flash Gordon]

I guess I'm unclear what you're looking for that Thor's thing in IW represents. Or why it can't be "plot driven".

But I did love Purple Man, Kingpin, and Cottonmouth. But I also love Loki, Thanos, Zemo, the Winter Soldier, and even the wonky stuff in Iron Man 3.

Yeah I think we might just be misunderstanding each other here. I love Kingpin and Cottonmouth too. Loki, Zemo, and Winter Solider also.

My big gripe is just how plot driven these movies are. They feel very A to B to C. I would like a little more to chew on. Thor going into that weird axis and opening up a dead star was more in the vein of where I want these things to go. That's why I love these characters in the comics. Just wild silly stuff.

I would have loved ENDGAME if Thanos had been killed and then the rest of the movie was timey wimey junk to save everybody. No need for a different Thanos to show up. It just becomes too predictable otherwise.