How would you fix the Robins and Batgirls' origins in a new modern timeline?

[Restingvoice]

Jean Paul

Pre Flashpoint:
- was a Graduate Student when he first apeared
- was 22 or 23 after the end of No Man's Land
- not 25 yet shortly before his death
- that would make him roughly Dicks age

Post Flashpoint his age is unknown

Luke Fox

Was 23 when he became Batwing. (Dick and Barbara were at the Time still supposed to be 21)

Huh. Luke's older than I thought, but that's because they aged down Dick and Babs. I always get the impression that Luke's younger than both of them.
I'll put them the same age range.

Damian's 10, Tim, Steph, Jason, Cass around 17-18, Dick, Helena, Bette, Luke and Jean Paul 25, Barbara and Kate around 32-33, Bruce 40, Kathy 47-48

Do you know anything about David Zavimbe, Michael Cane, Knight, and Squire?

Wasn't Damien artificially aged, though, or am I just making that up?

He was but only in New 52 to accommodate the 5-year timeline.

Speaking of Damian, because in my space he's 10 when Bruce is 40, then he's conceived when Bruce is 30 and Dick is 15. This will also automatically age Talia up because she was originally in Dick's age range, both were in college when they met, give or take a few years.

Hnnng... I'm of two minds for this, because... on one hand, the idea that Bruce is making a move on a college girl while his son is in college is so squicky, but on the other hand, it started the kinda hilarious feud between Dick and Talia, originally because they fight over Bruce's attention and morality (for dating a crook), and later on, over Bruce's child.

I want to keep that feud. If Dick was 15 and Talia was 21, they won't have the same dynamic. Maybe they'll have one as an adult, after all, it's not like they butt heads anywhere between those two eras, but I like it if in my version that dynamic perpetuate slowly through their lives. I'll put this one on hold.

[Tzigone]

This will also automatically age Talia up because she was originally in Dick's age range, both were in college when they met, give or take a few years.

Hmm, she said she was studying medicine, right? So I guess that could be pre-med or med school. Either way, she's fairly young. Was there a more specific reference? Just trying to figure out which is more likely. Of course, I don't know how long med school in Egypt is (then or now).

but on the other hand, it started the kinda hilarious feud between Dick and Talia, originally because they fight over Bruce's attention and morality (for dating a crook), and later on, over Bruce's child.

Well, and she did at least seem to aware of his kidnapping by her father (and Bruce's life being endangered in pursuit), didn't she? Or am I misremembering? It's been a while since I read those. That could contribute to hostilities.

[Aahz]

Do you know anything about David Zavimbe, Michael Cane, Knight, and Squire?

David Zavimbe: No idea
Michael Lane: was 27 (which would also put him close to Dicks age, pre flashpoint)

Knight and Squire
That depends which incarnation you mean.

No idea about the original Knight Percy Sheldrake, but just based on the age of his son probably older than Bruce.

Cyril Sheldrake (the original Squire and 2nd Knight) should be Dicks age (based on his golden/silver age appearences). As should be Raven Red.

I don't know about Beryl Hutchinson (the 2nd Squire and current Knight), I guess she is younger than Cyril but probably already out of her teens.

[Restingvoice]

Hmm, she said she was studying medicine, right? So I guess that could be pre-med or med school. Either way, she's fairly young. Was there a more specific reference? Just trying to figure out which is more likely. Of course, I don't know how long med school in Egypt is (then or now).

Well, and she did at least seem to aware of his kidnapping by her father (and Bruce's life being endangered in pursuit), didn't she? Or am I misremembering? It's been a while since I read those. That could contribute to hostilities.

I think Denny O'Neil said she was 19? I don't remember when or where I got that though.

Wasn't the kidnapping to prove that Bruce is worthy to be Ra's successor and Talia's betrothed? The moment Batman rescued Dick, Ra's revealed that Talia's his daughter and announce his proposition, and then she kissed Batman? I just remember the panels, not the chronology.

I think so, though, because I remember Batman's goofy look while being kissed is signature Neal Adams. ^^

David Zavimbe: No idea
Michael Lane: was 27 (which would also put him close to Dicks age, pre flashpoint)

Knight and Squire
That depends which incarnation you mean.

No idea about the original Knight Percy Sheldrake, but just based on the age of his son probably older than Bruce.

Cyril Sheldrake (the original Squire and 2nd Knight) should be Dicks age (based on his golden/silver age appearences). As should be Raven Red.

I don't know about Beryl Hutchinson (the 2nd Squire and current Knight), I guess she is younger than Cyril but probably already out of her teens.

Oh yeah, there's a Golden Age one. I remember reading him in either Batman Inc or Black Glove. I just didn't know how far the flashback went.

[Aahz]

Oh yeah, there's a Golden Age one. I remember reading him in either Batman Inc or Black Glove. I just didn't know how far the flashback went.

In the Golden Age Knight and Squire were the British counterparts if Batman and Robin, while Man-of-Bats and Raven Red where their Native American counterparts.

They were later in the silver age with several other counter parts of Batman (non of whom had sidekicks back then) from different countries in the "Batmen of All Nations". And that is what Morrison used as basis for Batman inc.

But I'm not a big fan of Morrioson and not so knowledgeable about his version of these characters.

[Tzigone]

Wasn't the kidnapping to prove that Bruce is worthy to be Ra's successor and Talia's betrothed? The moment Batman rescued Dick, Ra's revealed that Talia's his daughter and announce his proposition, and then she kissed Batman? I just remember the panels, not the chronology.

Sure, but I don't expect Dick to be okay with being kidnapped for that reason.

Plus, there was the framing of Bruce for murder to get him to her side? Can't remember timing. But I thought she was involved in that. Didn't Ra's drug and kidnap him and try to force him into marriage at gunpoint declare them married (and Talia completely went along with it in Batman Spectacular)? And other villainous acts. Some good ones, too, though her turn to good still seemed inadequately foreshadowed to me. I mean, not as unforeshadowed as an amnesiac flight attendant reveal, but that's not saying much.

I think so, though, because I remember Batman's goofy look while being kissed is signature Neal Adams. ^^

Ah, Batman. One day he talks about her warm lips that chill him to marrow and her murderous heart. Next thing you know, he's all besotted again. Dude has thing for a pretty face and villainous heart. Not just Talia and Selina, either - there have been others.

[Restingvoice]

Sure, but I don't expect Dick to be okay with being kidnapped for that reason.

Plus, there was the framing of Bruce for murder to get him to her side? Can't remember timing. But I thought she was involved in that. Didn't Ra's drug and kidnap him and try to force him into marriage at gunpoint declare them married (and Talia completely went along with it in Batman Spectacular)? And other villainous acts. Some good ones, too, though her turn to good still seemed inadequately foreshadowed to me. I mean, not as unforeshadowed as an amnesiac flight attendant reveal, but that's not saying much.

Ah, Batman. One day he talks about her warm lips that chill him to marrow and her murderous heart. Next thing you know, he's all besotted again. Dude has thing for a pretty face and villainous heart. Not just Talia and Selina, either - there have been others.

I forgot about framing one! That one she's definitely involved because the one who got murdered was Talia XD

Amnesiac flight attendant was Catwoman right

Speaking of her, she's 30 when they revealed identity to each other in Earth 2 and this is before Dick went to college. However, in Earth 1 Bruce was 28 when Dick's in college. It's not a big age difference so I'll put Selina between Babs and Bruce. You know what I'll age Kate up too.

Oh, and since Alfred, Lucius, and Jim are all Bruce's father figure too, I'll put them at the 15 years interval, and their kids accordingly.

Damian's 10, Tim, Steph, Jason, Cass, Tamara Fox, Duke, Cullen Row around 17-18, Dick, Helena, Bette, Luke and Jean Paul 25, Barbara 32-33, Kate, Selina, Vicki, Julia 35, Bruce, Julie Madison 40, Kathy 47-48, Alfred, Lucius and Jim 55

I honestly can't imagine Vicki and Julia as older women, probably because of all the retcon, so I still put them around Kate and Selina. Julie Madison, because she's the oldest character and the same age in Snyder verse, I can imagine her older.

I might as well ask about the GCPD crowd. I think Renee's fine in the 30s range by her relationship with Kate. I don't know about Harvey.

How old is Harper Row? I know she's working, but I don't know if she's in college or skipped. I can imagine her skipping college straight after high school to support the family.

[Aahz]

How old is Harper Row? I know she's working, but I don't know if she's in college or skipped. I can imagine her skipping college straight after high school to support the family.

Her Mother was killed when she was 11, got emancipated at the age of 15, and was based on the timeline 16 during the eternals. So she is roughly the age of Tim.
Cullen is a little bit younger then her.

I think Renee's fine in the 30s range by her relationship with Kate.

She became a detective during Knightfall, so she would have probably been in her mid 20s at this point.

[Jackalope89]

Btw. when it comes to Jason being killed by the Joker, I neither like the original Version where Joker is just lucky to get the drop on Jason nor the new 52 Version where Joker has manipulated everyting from the start, I think it would be nice to find some middleground between both.

Original version, that's actually referenced a LOT in fanfics, is the one where Sheila lures him into a trap by the Joker, and both Jason and Sheila bite it in the explosion.

[Restingvoice]

Her Mother was killed when she was 11, got emancipated at the age of 15, and was based on the timeline 16 during the eternals. So she is roughly the age of Tim.
Cullen is a little bit younger then her.

She became a detective during Knightfall, so she would have probably been in her mid 20s at this point.

Okay, adjusted... Cullen's already in high school, so he's most likely a junior. I read there's about 3 years different between Jason and Tim since he died at 15 and Tim was 12/13 so I'll detail it here.

Damian's 10, Maps 14, Cullen 15, Tim, Tam, Duke, Harper 16, Steph and Kyle 17, Jason and Cass 19, Dick, Helena, Bette, Luke, Jean Paul and Renee 25, Barbara 32-33, Kate, Selina, Vicki, Julia 35, Bruce, Julie Madison 40, Kathy 47-48, Alfred, Lucius and Jim 55

Let's add the Gotham Academy kids while I'm at it. I know Maps and Kyle but how about Olive, Pom, and Colton?

You know what, how about Harley and Ivy? I'm worldbuilding now so let's just include everyone. Harley already finished college and was interning in Arkham when she turned. By this point, Dick would already be Robin. I'm gonna follow the Animated Series Robin Age and put Dick at late teens when Harley first show up. I just don't know how long did it take to finish med school plus let's say a year interning before she fully becomes Harley Quinn.

Oh, but to keep things on topic, I kinda sorta want to reconcile the ginger Jason timeline with the Crime Alley Jason. I prefer the Crime Alley Jason in origin because it's unique, but I want to include some elements from ginger Jason, for example, Killer Croc and Nocturna's involvement.

[Aahz]

Okay, adjusted... Cullen's already in high school, so he's most likely a junior. I read there's about 3 years different between Jason and Tim since he died at 15 and Tim was 12/13 so I'll detail it here.

I think it is more like 0-2 years difference between them. We know that Jason was Robin at the age of 12 and that Tim 13 in A Lonley Place of Dying that is set only a few month after DitF.
It was also mentionend that Jason and Cass are roughly the same age.
That Jason died at the age of 15 is only mentioned in the death certificate in "The Batman Files" and that also claims that he was only 4'6'' at that age, that not really a canon source imo.

Let's add the Gotham Academy kids while I'm at it. I know Maps and Kyle but how about Olive, Pom, and Colton?

According to the role cards DC published by the start of the series Mia was 14, Olivem Colton and Pomeline were 15 and Kyle was 16.

And when I'm already at it. According to their profiles the "We are Robin" Kids had the following ages: Duke and Riko 16, Izzy, Drax, Dre and Troy 17.

[mikelmcknight72]

I'd set a permanent age for Clark, Bruce, Hall, Barry, etc around 38-40. Through the wonders of comic books, the more human members of the Big 7 would have had their aging slowed a bit and their vitality preserved.

When Bruce had been operating as Batman for roughly 3-5 years, he'd take on Dick as a ward. After some training, Dick would have become Robin at 12-13, Nightwing at 17-18, and he is currently around 25 (as are the rest of his generation of Titans and Barbara). Bruce would have adopted Dick before taking in Jason
Jason was with Bruce about a year before Dick became Nightwing. He'd have been adopted shortly before his death, and he is currently about 21-22. He operated as Robin for perhaps two years, and was believed dead for several years before Under the Red Hood.
Tim would be 17-18, as would his YJ compatriots. He became Robin around 13. Cassandra Cain is older than Tim but younger than Bruce. Spoiler is Tim's age. At some point after both his parents deaths, Bruce adopts him. Cassandra was adopted most recently.
Damien would be about 13 and has been Robin for about a year. For a while, he and Tim are both active as very different Robins. Jon would be at most one year older than Damien. This timeline affords the necessary time for natural conception and aging for Damien.

Exact ages would not be shown in panel for any character, and birthdays would NOT be shown....EVER. The above information would inform how characters are written. It isn't a perfect timeline, but it is close enough that I think all but the most stringent continuity buffs could accept it.

[Westbats]

Her Mother was killed when she was 11, got emancipated at the age of 15, and was based on the timeline 16 during the eternals. So she is roughly the age of Tim.
Cullen is a little bit younger then her.

In Batman and Robin Eternal Harper says she's applying to Gotham Technical Institute, and Tim got admitted to Yale, so I'd probably put them at 17, and Cullen at 14/15.

[Flash Gordon]

So much focus on these fictitious ages. I think OP was mainly looking for new ideas for the origins of the Bat-family.

[dietrich]

So much focus on these fictitious ages. I think OP was mainly looking for new ideas for the origins of the Bat-family.

I know right. I don't much care for the ages so long they make some sort of sense and Dick grayson came to live with Batman when he was young. It's important that they have a strong special bond. Different from Bruce and the other Robins. Red Robins and Signals.