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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Default Reread New Krypton Recently

    Moved to a new place and went to the local library where I found that much to my surprise they had a really good Superman comics selection. They had pretty much the entire New Krypton saga volumes, so I decided to give it a reread. Man the ending is still just as anti climatic and disappointing as it was the first time I read it. I really felt like that as I was reading it the first time that this was going to radically shake up the Superman status quo and be Zod’s defining story like how Johns redefined the modern Brainiac. And you know what? I really enjoyed the majority of the New Krypton storyline. Kal and Kara trying to guide the New Kryptonians while back on Earth Jimmy and Lois try to expose General Sam Lane. Zod comes off as the Ra’s Al Ghul type villain I had always hoped he would become, cruel and ruthless at times but with a certain nobility and genuine compassion for his people as well as a willingness to let Kal do things his way. Metallo and Reactron got their threat factor heavily upgraded and got to really show how dangerous they are. Lex and Brainiac got to seriously show off their stuff as well, I loved the LoSH showing up to help. Of course Lex ends up backstabbing Brainiac with the aid of the Toyman (one thing I loved about the Johns era even though he was gone by this point was all of Clark’s Rogues having a hand in what was going on in some way or another). I actually really liked the parallels between General Sam Lane and General Zod, though I know a lot of people hate “Ross Lane”.

    But man the War of the Supermen is just bad. Zod goes back to being a mustache twirler, New Krypton blows up, Sam Lane kills himself, and the “back to status quo” button gets hit so hard it leaves your head spinning and wondering what the hell was even the point of the story. Especially since the reboot was coming I don’t know why they didn’t just let the writers go with their original intended ending, not like it would’ve mattered anyway. The “War” gets mopped up in one issue pretty much, and lacks any sense of impact or weight. The aging of Chris was also really weird and kind of creepy given that he was in a romantic relationship and then goes back to being a child.

    Yet I still think this would be a great storyline to see adapted on the Young Justice cartoon after they finish the Apokolips plotline if they really want to bring in Kara. Season 3 has been pretty Bat-focused for understandable reasons, wouldn’t mind seeing seeing a hypothetical Season 4 be more focused on the Supermythos. And unlike the comics where everything has to go back to status quo, the cartoon has actual changes like Kaldur becoming Aquaman, so I think something like New Krypton permanently shaking up the status quo would work fine.

  2. #2
    Fantastic Member qwertyuiop1998's Avatar
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    pretty much agree with you, The New Krypton really has a great start and becoming more and more fascinating, I especially liked how johns writing Krypton's culture and other related things, Also the earth and others(For example: GLC) reactions to the new krypton also interesting

    It only fault was the ending IMO, Seriously The Last Stand Of New Krypton and The War of The Supermen give me feel it like: What? I just start reading the story, Why it suddenly end and there are lots of things I still don't understand
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  3. #3
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I disliked the entire storyline. I'm tired of the previously-good-societies (Krypton, Amazons, Atlantis) being made into villains attacking Earth/surface/outside world. Well, no, that's not true: I'm not tired of it, but rather disliked it the first time. Same goes for previously-good parents.

    Sam Lane was a mustache-twirling villain, and that's not the version I prefer (much more acceptable for Zod than Sam for me). And the dialog...at one point I was like "ew, he sounds like a comic book vill-oh." Which, admittedly, did make me laugh at myself.

  4. #4
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    So coincidently, I just got the DC Universe app, and I've been on a Superman kick making use of the comics section, reading and re-reading a bunch of stuff, Birthright, For the Man Who Has Everything, What's so Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?, so on and so on.

    The point is one of the things on my list of Superman stuff I wanted to check out was Geoff Johns's Action Comics run. I've read much of it before (Up, Up, and Away, Last Son of Krypton, and Brainiac), but not all of it, and I've never touched the New Krypton stuff, which marks the end of the run.

    I'm still on Up, Up, and Away, so I have a little time, but New Krypton as a whole seems...intimidating. I'm not sure what exactly I should be reading. Does anyone have a comprehensive guide or can help me understand what's essential and what's just side stuff? Thanks.
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  5. #5
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    New Krypton was pretty clearly an idea that Johns and Busiek had (there is foreshadowing of another Kandor and another incarnation of Brainiac in several of Busiek's stories) and got probably taken by editorial and turned into a complete mess. Johns probably left because Action because they were going to retool the book into a Flamebird/Nightwing book when New Krypton would be the main Superman book.

    But man the War of the Supermen is just bad. Zod goes back to being a mustache twirler, New Krypton blows up, Sam Lane kills himself, and the “back to status quo” button gets hit so hard it leaves your head spinning and wondering what the hell was even the point of the story. Especially since the reboot was coming I don’t know why they didn’t just let the writers go with their original intended ending, not like it would’ve mattered anyway.
    Superman editorial during this era is extremely capricious. Busiek went from talking about introducing Chloe Sullivan into Superman to been let go from the book with Robinson replacing him. i believe Sterling Gates has said to this day, he doesn't know why he was let go from the Supergirl book. Of course there is the entire mess with Perez in New 52. But Superman editorial during this era is terrible.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    New Krypton was pretty clearly an idea that Johns and Busiek had (there is foreshadowing of another Kandor and another incarnation of Brainiac in several of Busiek's stories) and got probably taken by editorial and turned into a complete mess. Johns probably left because Action because they were going to retool the book into a Flamebird/Nightwing book when New Krypton would be the main Superman book.



    Superman editorial during this era is extremely capricious. Busiek went from talking about introducing Chloe Sullivan into Superman to been let go from the book with Robinson replacing him. i believe Sterling Gates has said to this day, he doesn't know why he was let go from the Supergirl book. Of course there is the entire mess with Perez in New 52. But Superman editorial during this era is terrible.
    Yep editorial is mostly to blame for this which just angers me that DC left the incompetents fester and rot the Superman books because of the good ol’ boys club. I think Johns left because of Blackest Night which really sucks since Secret Origin teases a lot of storylines that never happened. While I know others dislike Johns, and I don’t really care for Secret Origins, his other stories were great and Johns usually has a good handle on Superman’s voice, respect for his Rogues Gallery and a desire to use them, and the ability to really draw on past character lore to revamp and rebuild franchises. Really wish we could’ve gotten a long run on Supes from him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    So coincidently, I just got the DC Universe app, and I've been on a Superman kick making use of the comics section, reading and re-reading a bunch of stuff, Birthright, For the Man Who Has Everything, What's so Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?, so on and so on.

    The point is one of the things on my list of Superman stuff I wanted to check out was Geoff Johns's Action Comics run. I've read much of it before (Up, Up, and Away, Last Son of Krypton, and Brainiac), but not all of it, and I've never touched the New Krypton stuff, which marks the end of the run.

    I'm still on Up, Up, and Away, so I have a little time, but New Krypton as a whole seems...intimidating. I'm not sure what exactly I should be reading. Does anyone have a comprehensive guide or can help me understand what's essential and what's just side stuff? Thanks.
    The four volumes of New Krypton, the Sterling Gates Supergirl series, Last Stand of New Krypton vols. 1 and 2 and the War of the Supermen are what I would consider “essential”. Mon-El and Nightwing & Flamebird are more about how Earth negatively reacts to Kryptonians and Lane’s schemes to rally Earth against New Krypton. They’re fine reads but not essential. Here’s a list of the New Krypton reading order:
    https://comicbookreadingorders.com/d...reading-order/

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    New Krypton was pretty clearly an idea that Johns and Busiek had (there is foreshadowing of another Kandor and another incarnation of Brainiac in several of Busiek's stories) and got probably taken by editorial and turned into a complete mess. Johns probably left because Action because they were going to retool the book into a Flamebird/Nightwing book when New Krypton would be the main Superman book.

    Superman editorial during this era is extremely capricious. Busiek went from talking about introducing Chloe Sullivan into Superman to been let go from the book with Robinson replacing him. i believe Sterling Gates has said to this day, he doesn't know why he was let go from the Supergirl book. Of course there is the entire mess with Perez in New 52. But Superman editorial during this era is terrible.
    Wow, I didn't realize there was so much drama during this period, but it makes sense. Seemed like it was really hard to keep a writer on. Besides select portions of Johns's Action run, the only stuff I've read of Superman between Infinite Crisis and Rebirth is Grounded, which...was not good. I guess the editorial mess is a big reason there's not much from this period that is super highly regarded. Bad editorial interferes with quality story telling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yep editorial is mostly to blame for this which just angers me that DC left the incompetents fester and rot the Superman books because of the good ol’ boys club. I think Johns left because of Blackest Night which really sucks since Secret Origin teases a lot of storylines that never happened. While I know others dislike Johns, and I don’t really care for Secret Origins, his other stories were great and Johns usually has a good handle on Superman’s voice, respect for his Rogues Gallery and a desire to use them, and the ability to really draw on past character lore to revamp and rebuild franchises. Really wish we could’ve gotten a long run on Supes from him.
    Yeah, like I said, I've only read some arcs from Johns's run, but I really like the arcs I did read. I didn't realize he might have been driven off it by poor editorial, but it's a shame he had to leave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The four volumes of New Krypton, the Sterling Gates Supergirl series, Last Stand of New Krypton vols. 1 and 2 and the War of the Supermen are what I would consider “essential”. Mon-El and Nightwing & Flamebird are more about how Earth negatively reacts to Kryptonians and Lane’s schemes to rally Earth against New Krypton. They’re fine reads but not essential. Here’s a list of the New Krypton reading order:
    https://comicbookreadingorders.com/d...reading-order/
    Wow, that is a lot. Thanks for the help. I'll try my best with that.

    I might read Nightwing and Flamebird as well, as I love Greg Rucka, but I know he hasn't exactly spoken highly of that run, so maybe I'll wait on that.
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  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Wow, I didn't realize there was so much drama during this period, but it makes sense. Seemed like it was really hard to keep a writer on. Besides select portions of Johns's Action run, the only stuff I've read of Superman between Infinite Crisis and Rebirth is Grounded, which...was not good. I guess the editorial mess is a big reason there's not much from this period that is super highly regarded. Bad editorial interferes with quality story telling.



    Yeah, like I said, I've only read some arcs from Johns's run, but I really like the arcs I did read. I didn't realize he might have been driven off it by poor editorial, but it's a shame he had to leave.



    Wow, that is a lot. Thanks for the help. I'll try my best with that.

    I might read Nightwing and Flamebird as well, as I love Greg Rucka, but I know he hasn't exactly spoken highly of that run, so maybe I'll wait on that.
    Nightwing and Flamebird follow an aged up Chris Kent/Lor-Zod and a Thara Ak-Var as they hunt undercover Kryptonians left behind by Zod to infiltrate human society. The two have a romantic relationship and the series fleshed out Kryptonian Raoist beliefs. It was alright, but I could never get over the whole “Chris ages to a 18 year old and starts having sex with an adult woman”. Too weird for me. Has some good moments though.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Nightwing and Flamebird follow an aged up Chris Kent/Lor-Zod and a Thara Ak-Var as they hunt undercover Kryptonians left behind by Zod to infiltrate human society. The two have a romantic relationship and the series fleshed out Kryptonian Raoist beliefs. It was alright, but I could never get over the whole “Chris ages to a 18 year old and starts having sex with an adult woman”. Too weird for me. Has some good moments though.
    Yeah, that definitely sounds pretty weird. Granted, age-ups are generally a trope I'm against, but it seems they also always go hand-in-hand with issues like this. Seeing Bart date an adult woman in The Flash: Fastest Man Alive was pretty strange too. Still, reading more about Raoism would be cool.

    What I'll probably do is read New Krypton, then someday go back and catch up on the Nightwing and Flamebird issues. That way I'll have the context I need, but don't have to kill myself reading this whole New Krypton saga.
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  10. #10
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post

    But man the War of the Supermen is just bad. Zod goes back to being a mustache twirler, New Krypton blows up, Sam Lane kills himself, and the “back to status quo” button gets hit so hard it leaves your head spinning and wondering what the hell was even the point of the story. Especially since the reboot was coming I don’t know why they didn’t just let the writers go with their original intended ending, not like it would’ve mattered anyway. The “War” gets mopped up in one issue pretty much, and lacks any sense of impact or weight. The aging of Chris was also really weird and kind of creepy given that he was in a romantic relationship and then goes back to being a child.
    I hated that ending so much. It was just the laziest idea ever to reset everything. I really liked New Krypton up until the ending. The Supergirl tie in issues were especially good as was the main mini series. I really did not care about Nightwing and Flamebird at all though. the Valor stuff was about 50/50 for me with some being good while alot was not. There are a hundred different way they could have ended that story without just hitting the magic reset button and destroying everything. I always liked the idea of some cosmic power just moving the whole planet to the other side of the universe leaving Superman and Supergirl knowing that there people were out there somewhere but having no way to find them.

    That 12 issue Superman: World of New Kryptonmini series is fantastic though and is well worth reading.


  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I hated that ending so much. It was just the laziest idea ever to reset everything. I really liked New Krypton up until the ending. The Supergirl tie in issues were especially good as was the main mini series. I really did not care about Nightwing and Flamebird at all though. the Valor stuff was about 50/50 for me with some being good while alot was not. There are a hundred different way they could have ended that story without just hitting the magic reset button and destroying everything. I always liked the idea of some cosmic power just moving the whole planet to the other side of the universe leaving Superman and Supergirl knowing that there people were out there somewhere but having no way to find them.

    That 12 issue Superman: World of New Kryptonmini series is fantastic though and is well worth reading.

    Yeah Clark living on New Krypton was actually really good. It was great because as Zod kept reminding him, he wasn’t “special” anymore in terms of abilities, so it meant the writers let Clark show off his other skills. He got to use his brains to solve problems rather than “punch x harder”. And I loved the tension between Zod and Kal, there was clear distrust and dislike but also a grudging respect.

  12. #12
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    It's a weird one in the history of Superbooks. I really loved that period, like, the era. I can't disagree with any points made about the poor editorial, weird wrenches thrown into the middle of various runs, and the utter anticlimax or let-down of the wrap-up. But leading into it? Oh man it had hype. It had a lot of hype. We were in the thick of the Morrison Batman run, a timeframe when the secondary Bat-book was still Paul Dini ... so calling it secondary does it a disservice. And like, it looked like Superman was about to get his A-Game due and have a compelling storyline akin to Batman's. Blackest Night was also gearing up, the Johns run in full swing. So yeah it was weird ... Last Son, Legion, and Brainiac, seemed to be leading up to something. Then suddenly Robinson's stuff was tying in as well. But it kind of went off the rails bad. Even charming ideas - Rucka's Detective Comics began in there, and had The Question as a back-up, so cutely, Action Comics got the other Charlton hero, Captain Atom, as a back-up. But like ... that introduced random elements into the New Krypton storyline that didn't exactly fit the arc ... let alone Captain Atom's style of stories.

    But then again it also brought back and launched that short Superboy run in Adventure Comics. I mean we had ADVENTURE COMICS at the time. Like, for reals.
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  13. #13
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    The first half of World of New Krypton was so damn good. All the Supergirl stuff by Gates and Igle rocked. Robinson did a few cool things.

    It went off the rails in a mad fever dream, sadly. The SUPERMAN title should have been where WORLD OF NEW KRYPTON took place, and ACTION COMICS could have jumped around to the various other characters. It got really bloated.
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  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    It all fell flat for me, honestly. From the set up of the books, to the execution. It had so much going on yet most all of it was just a complete bore to me. The only worthwhile thing I got from the whole saga was Alura's characeterization, and she was killed off.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I might read Nightwing and Flamebird as well, as I love Greg Rucka, but I know he hasn't exactly spoken highly of that run, so maybe I'll wait on that.
    Greg Rucka only did that book to get the Earth One Wonder Woman job, which then was taken from him and that started a lot of bad blood between him and DC.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 07-06-2019 at 08:32 AM.

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