Heroes in Crisis ending, who else liked it?

[maninthemacintosh1606]

I once had a tooth pulled, it was long and difficult and painful to the extent I was shaking so much the dentist made me stay for a while. I still had more fun with that than I did reading this thing. The tooth pull had a better plot, didn't punk the dentist or me, and had better editing. The comic book had better art though...

[Ilan Preskovsky]

I'm a big fan of Tom King and I stayed optimistic all the way through it but, nope, the last two issues, in particular, were so horribly misjudged that I ended up almost entirely hating the series.

[Timber Wolf-By-Night]

I just remember reading some interview with King where he said something about actually doing research into mental health issues or treating mental health issues, and then he stopped, because what he was learning in his research was going in some other direction than what he wanted his big statement to be. And I just though, "Dude, if what the experts say contradicts what you want to say, then refusing to do the research and going ahead with what you want to say anyway doesn't make you right anymore than it makes the experts either go away or be wrong." Does anybody else remember reading such an interview with him?

[Lightning Rider]

I just remember reading some interview with King where he said something about actually doing research into mental health issues or treating mental health issues, and then he stopped, because what he was learning in his research was going in some other direction than what he wanted his big statement to be. And I just though, "Dude, if what the experts say contradicts what you want to say, then refusing to do the research and going ahead with what you want to say anyway doesn't make you right anymore than it makes the experts either go away or be wrong." Does anybody else remember reading such an interview with him?

That sounds pretty damning.

[maninthemacintosh1606]

I just remember reading some interview with King where he said something about actually doing research into mental health issues or treating mental health issues, and then he stopped, because what he was learning in his research was going in some other direction than what he wanted his big statement to be. And I just though, "Dude, if what the experts say contradicts what you want to say, then refusing to do the research and going ahead with what you want to say anyway doesn't make you right anymore than it makes the experts either go away or be wrong." Does anybody else remember reading such an interview with him?

Was that specifically research into PTSD?

[liwanag]

uhmm... how did it end by the way?

[married guy]

I enjoyed that Harley was a pie girl. Totally would have called that.

Otherwise ... pretty unsolid story that did nothing good to any of the characters, was confusing and pointless. It made the most innocent, family-friendly Flash into a criminal. Worst story of 2019 for me.

Never mind the 2019 bit.
For me, it's simply the worst story I've read.
By a significant margin.

[married guy]

uhmm... how did it end by the way?

It ended with Wally West a murderer. He killed Roy Harper and a bunch of other heroes 'accidently' because for some unknown reason, the Speed Force can now blow up and kill people.
Then Wally went out and tried to shift the blame onto Booster Gold and Harley Quinn for reasons never explained.
Barry and Bruce are portrayed as incompetent imbeciles, Harley kicks Wally in the balls and Poison Ivy is now a plant.
Readers worldwide are left saying to themselves "What the fuck?"
The. End.

[CaptCleghorn]

It ended with Wally West a murderer. He killed Roy Harper and a bunch of other heroes 'accidently' because for some unknown reason, the Speed Force can now blow up and kill people.
Then Wally went out and tried to shift the blame onto Booster Gold and Harley Quinn for reasons never explained.
Barry and Bruce are portrayed as incompetent imbeciles, Harley kicks Wally in the balls and Poison Ivy is now a plant.
Readers worldwide are left saying to themselves "What the fuck?"
The. End.

Am I OK for swearing eternal vengeance on you for making me remember that?

[Menacer]

I haven't read king's batman run... but I do want to.

I read Mister Mircle on its tpb release and originally did not like it. It was so different then my usual dc books. Depressing. Focused on a boring home life. Focus on his child and family life. Barda was down on her self for being to tall, etc. I didn't like it. Then I read it a second time... still had problems with it... then read it a 3rd time.

My opinion changed. It's a wonderful creative change from your average dc hero book, and it was unfair of me to want it to be like so many other books. Mister Mircle was unique and different and I really love it now. And the ending was brilliant.

So now I'm in thialand and couple days before take off I brought my new copy of Heroes in Crisis, still sealed in plastic.

As far as dealing with mental health I'm diagnosed bipolar for 13 years. Been hospitalized 15 times for nearly a year of my life over the last decade.

MM or HiC dont necessarily portray mental health accurately and as for the underlining message... well I only just read it and can't seem to remember exactly what that was... but I did enjoy the mystery and characterization s... I'm not a die hard Wally fan but I am a huge fan of Superman... frankly I just love the writers doing new things ... but a time travel murder mystery wasnt executed to the level that say MM's big ending was.

Over all Heroes In Crisis was a fun brisk read with amazin art... I even gave it a 5/5 on good reads but if i was totally honest I'd give it a 4/5

Personally I'd recommend it

[kjn]

As far as dealing with mental health I'm diagnosed bipolar for 13 years. Been hospitalized 15 times for nearly a year of my life over the last decade.

MM or HiC dont necessarily portray mental health accurately and as for the underlining message... well I only just read it and can't seem to remember exactly what that was... but I did enjoy the mystery and characterization s... I'm not a die hard Wally fan but I am a huge fan of Superman... frankly I just love the writers doing new things ... but a time travel murder mystery wasnt executed to the level that say MM's big ending was.

Over all Heroes In Crisis was a fun brisk read with amazin art... I even gave it a 5/5 on good reads but if i was totally honest I'd give it a 4/5

Personally I'd recommend it

I'm not surprised at all that Heroes in Crisis reads very differently as a combined read than as separate installments. A lot of its flaws only appears when one starts to poke at the text (and that's what we to a large degree do here).

Very much agreed that mental health and its treatment isn't really portrayed accurately in the story, and I have far less experience of that than you. On one hand, that doesn't bother me—superhero stories have never been built on realism—though I think it's a huge missed opportunity to not treat a subject that's to a large degree still taboo in a more thoughtful manner.

The real thing that upsets me is rather that a key element of its story is built on that Wally West's breakdown is predicated on him seeking and getting help. As such, it further stigmatises the subject of mental health and those seeking treatment.

[Menacer]

I'm not surprised at all that Heroes in Crisis reads very differently as a combined read than as separate installments. A lot of its flaws only appears when one starts to poke at the text (and that's what we to a large degree do here).

Very much agreed that mental health and its treatment isn't really portrayed accurately in the story, and I have far less experience of that than you. On one hand, that doesn't bother me—superhero stories have never been built on realism—though I think it's a huge missed opportunity to not treat a subject that's to a large degree still taboo in a more thoughtful manner.

The real thing that upsets me is rather that a key element of its story is built on that Wally West's breakdown is predicated on him seeking and getting help. As such, it further stigmatises the subject of mental health and those seeking treatment.

While over all I think getting treatment is a huge part of why I'm much more well today... that and exercises and my girlfriend and fathers support...

I will say that treatment, in my case medications, can cause all sorts of huge problems. Suicidal thoughts, headaches, pain, unsound thinking etc etc....

So personally Wally having a breakdown while getting treatment didn't strike me as unrealistic.. some of my worst breakdowns were treatment induced to some extent.

[kjn]

While over all I think getting treatment is a huge part of why I'm much more well today... that and exercises and my girlfriend and fathers support...

I will say that treatment, in my case medications, can cause all sorts of huge problems. Suicidal thoughts, headaches, pain, unsound thinking etc etc....

So personally Wally having a breakdown while getting treatment didn't strike me as unrealistic.. some of my worst breakdowns were treatment induced to some extent.

Yes, I know that psychiatric treatment is a high-risk activity. And I wouldn't be upset if a comic about mental health also covered the risks that can arise during such treatment.

But Sanctuary both set up a bad depiction of psychiatric or psychological treatment, it was never presented as being able to handle the risks that can arise. And the main coda of the story is that if you seek help, it will mess you up, because that was all we got to see. Instead of normalising questions of mental health and helping break the taboo about it, it reinforces those taboos.

[Menacer]

Yes, I know that psychiatric treatment is a high-risk activity. And I wouldn't be upset if a comic about mental health also covered the risks that can arise during such treatment.

But Sanctuary both set up a bad depiction of psychiatric or psychological treatment, it was never presented as being able to handle the risks that can arise. And the main coda of the story is that if you seek help, it will mess you up, because that was all we got to see. Instead of normalising questions of mental health and helping break the taboo about it, it reinforces those taboos.

Maybe I need to reread the story... was everyone depicted as not responding well to the treatment????

Wasnt it really just Wally who responded poorly and people like booster and harley who were manipulated by Wally.

Also it is far more realistic for someone to receive treatment and not respond well...

I've been hospitalized 13 to 15 time over 12 years... I could easily be described as not responding well...

Tho today I am much improved over when I was 21... I'm 34 now.

As an example 50% of people diagnosed as bipolar die by accidental suicide or by intentional suicide

Doesnt sound like all that great or a result...

Bipolar is very treatable... but decline of well being happens to many...

Schizophrenia is basically untreatable... very hard to manage...

PTSD likely is very hard to treat..

Honestly the book would be very lame if everyone who got treatment just got well...

Reality is they are shown as coping... and that's what those of us do when we have tough cases of mental health...

We get by and a few improve... most do not

[kjn]

Maybe I need to reread the story... was everyone depicted as not responding well to the treatment????

Wasnt it really just Wally who responded poorly and people like booster and harley who were manipulated by Wally.

What we were shown on-camera was, IIRC, one character (Lagoon Boy) getting grossly inappropriate treatment and not improving, and then Wally West who had a breakdown that caused the death of most of the patients.

The comic does say that the facility helped other heroes, but it never manages to show it. So what we see on-camera—and that matters much more than what we are simply told in asides—is 50% ineffective treatment, and 50% treatment with horrendous results. And the breakdown is directly tied to the treatment.

I'm hoping that you can continue to become better, and I can understand you have a different perspective of mental health than I do, and I'm glad if you found things about "Heroes in Crisis" that resonated with you. But to me, it felt like it further piled stigma onto people struggling with PTSD and other forms of mental health issues.