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  1. #16
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    BTAS version, with limited plant control, based on her experiments. Poison Ivy (and Clayface) as elementals in a way, are almost too powerful for Batman and the Batfamily to contend with as peak humans.

    I liked her flavor of "crazy" and obsessiveness as it was portrayed in BTAS. Her sympathetic side shown through in her relationship with Harley and that's all the sympathy I need to see from her. They brilliantly portrayed her in relation to other villains (which we sorely need more of), whether Two-Face, Harley, or Joker.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    B:TAS/DCAU Ivy.

    She can have some sympathetic qualities and Pet the Dog moments (a lot of the male Bat-villains still have these), but I like her as a fanatical echo-terrorist who is disdainful towards most humans. She is arguably the most powerful Bat-villain and just as scary in her own way as the men, and isn't romantically tied to either Batman (Catwoman, Talia, Phantasm) or the Joker (Harley), and I dislike toning that down for yet another female anti-heroine. Mainstream comics are seemingly incapable of avoiding the whole "she's hot, so she can't be all bad" trope. Let Ivy be one of the bad guys, or at least no more "good" than Bane, Scarecrow, Freeze on a bad day, etc.

    She's also just as controlling and abusive in her own way towards Harley as the Joker, and in fact belittles her intelligence even more than him. I'm still interested in their dynamic (and she's certainly overall the lesser of two evils), but I don't view it as an ideal healthy relationship, because that would be boring for a group of psychos like Harley, Ivy and Joker who are not meant to be role models.
    I'm going to have to concur with this. I honestly prefer Ivy as a villain and when it comes to her power set, she's just an extremely brilliant chemist (as in BTAS/TNBA she used lipstick rather than things secreting from her). I always thought having her as Plantneto puts her quite above what the Batman family SHOULD be able to handle...

    My preferred take on Ivy was the type who will target people and you think its for a good cause but her disproportionate retribution definitely causes you to pause and think "you're crazy".

  3. #18
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    She can have some sympathetic qualities and Pet the Dog moments (a lot of the male Bat-villains still have these), but I like her as a fanatical echo-terrorist who is disdainful towards most humans. She is arguably the most powerful Bat-villain and just as scary in her own way as the men, and isn't romantically tied to either Batman (Catwoman, Talia, Phantasm) or the Joker (Harley), and I dislike toning that down for yet another female anti-heroine. Mainstream comics are seemingly incapable of avoiding the whole "she's hot, so she can't be all bad" trope. Let Ivy be one of the bad guys, or at least no more "good" than Bane, Scarecrow, Freeze on a bad day, etc.
    I do think it's fine if there's a little bit of flirtatiousness or sexual tension, enough to the extent where Ivy seems to enjoy when she gets to kiss Batman, but nothing serious.

  4. #19
    Spectacular Member Green Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Either a particular depiction/writer/media or just a build-your-own?

    Anti-hero or villain? If a villain, tragic or not? Green skinned or not? Plant powers or drugged lipstick? Any ecological interest? Does she use seduction? Does she like kids?

    I'm just curious as to which version people like best.
    Definitely prefer her in the grey area, if I have to label it it’s probably more anti-hero. Straightforward villain/genocidal psycho makes her boring imo. She should be lethal, but only for people who deserve it in her view (polluters, greedy CEOs, abusers etc).
    Protecting the plant life is her #1 goal. But she cares about all weak and defenseless (like Harley, the orphans and also animals) because she knows how it feels to be alone and helpless.

    She should have plant powers and a connection to the Green, but she’s also a brilliant scientist. She’s of two worlds and struggles to keep the balance especially with humanity threatening the environment.
    She can use pheromones to manipulate people and create poisons with her body chemistry, but the poison kiss seems a outdated and a touch will also do the trick.

    For her look I like New52 black/green suit with light skin. It is sexy, badass but also functional because she can grow things like vines from it, kinda like a symbiote. When she’s more disconnected from humanity the near nude plant goddess with light green skin will also do.

    Some references for interesting & balanced (non black or white) Ivy characterizations:
    Batman: Poison Ivy by John Francis Moore
    No Man’s Land/Orphan storyline by Greg Rucka
    The first issues of the New52 Birds of Prey (especially #3) by Duane Swierczynski
    Batgirl Annual #2 by Gail Simone
    Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life & Death by Amy Chu
    All Star Batman #7 by Scott Snyder

    In other media, the Arkham Knight game has done a pretty good job with giving Ivy a more layered personality...
    Last edited by Green Ghost; 07-09-2019 at 01:10 AM.

  5. #20
    Post Editing OCD Confuzzled's Avatar
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    Misunderstood and feared anti-hero coz as a villain, writers just dumb down her motives. Prefer the human skin tone with nature goddess level powers, though the fact that she can shrivel up without sunlight is an interesting element to make her vulnerable, as was her suffering from Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) as established by Gail Simone in Batgirl Annual #2.

    Prefer her as seductress, scientist, Cassandra-like soothsayer when it comes to natural disasters, mother, tragic abuse victim (of Woodrue), feminist, activist, and as Harley's true soulmate (as long as she is ALL of the other things when in a romance with Harley, vs. the clown girl's sidekick/love interest).

    As somebody said in her appreciation thread, Ivy is DC's most political character by a mile as she covers an astounding number of sensitive issues.
    Last edited by Confuzzled; 07-08-2019 at 01:03 PM.

  6. #21
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    Villian, sympathetic, wants to save plants but takes it too far, prioritises plant life over human life.

    Is humanoid looking but green and inhuman. Fully clothed. Not just a hyper-sexualised tease, but a proper characther who can achieve goals without seduction.

    Magical control over plants. (Within reason). Eg. could make a tree that's there move, but can't just summon giant vines out of the ground/thin air.

    A medium threat. Not overpowered, not laughable.

  7. #22
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    Classic version. No inherent powers, no green skin -- all bad, all-the-time.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    Classic version. No inherent powers, no green skin -- all bad, all-the-time.
    I mostly agree. It's interesting to realize that Ivy is one of the few villains that meets the definition of a serial killer, everyone else is a spree killer or mass murderer. She's scary because, even with the modern more heroic takes on her, she needs to kill. She has cool down periods, and then a build back up until she finds a victim. (Most notably Detective Comics 823) It's just that she's good, as the successful serial killers are, at portraying herself as a misunderstood victim who is trying to do what is best for the world.

    However, she's not. She's not even trying to do what is best for plants. Take "Cycle of Life" for a case study. It starts with her going to an African country to seek out a rare and endangered plant that is thousands of years old. Ivy tells her assistant that she's saving the plant, cuts off its roots, and takes it back to Gotham to utilize in creating her children.

    Stop. Think this through based on what we currently know about plants.

    First research keeps showing over and over again that plants, even the solitary appearing ones in extreme environments, have relationships from familial to friendships, with other plants, fungi, and animals. We now know that trees parent their young, or in the cases of secondary growth and pioneer species like birches, they will parent other species. Individual plants will have friends with other plants. They will develop interspecies relationships that run the gamut from parasitic (like most orchids) to commensalism to symbiotic. A healthy ecosystem like the one the poor plant that Ivy tortures, mutilates, and enslaves is from may not appear to have dynamic complex relationships, but it does. One of the more fascinating studies that has come out in the past twenty years is the fact that Hardwicke's Wooly Bats will form specific bonds with the pitcher plants they use as homes, to the point where other bats will not roost in the plant and the offspring of both plants and bats will roost together. Yet we have Ivy, who should know this if she's come out of a plant science degree program in the last twenty five years, saying that this plant that has thrived for thousands of years, has a root system that extends for hundreds of feet in all directions and then a mycorrhizal network that likes goes for miles connecting it to other plants, is lonely and wants to go with her.

    No it does not. Even houseplants hate being moved.

    From there she violently slices up this defenseless innocent, shoves it into a case, tears it from the home it has known, the one it knows from the genetic memories of its ancestors, a place of spare beauty and bright sunlight, with the quiet songs of distant friends and relatives, to the crowded, dim, violent, humid awful place that is Gotham. Again, why, as we and the plant must scream out, is she doing this? It would have survived the war and the burning, it has before, it could again. What it couldn't survive is being poached, which is what has happened.

    As everyone who has read the series knows, Ivy did it because she needed to harvest the chemicals in order to create bioengineered creatures to serve her.

    Do you know who does this? DO YOU KNOW WHO DOES THIS?!

    Monsanto.

    Poison Ivy is no hero. She is no anti-hero. She's Monsanto. She's one of the greatest villains the world has ever seen.

    Never forget this, nor that she tortures plants and enslaves them to serve her at the cost of the environment. This is why you only see her caring about invasive species, and the ones that have already been enslaved. She does not hear the songs of healthy plants, of healthy ecosystems which we now know are a constant. She probably doesn't even hear the heartbeats of trees, which researches have successfully recorded.

    She hears what she wants to hear, and has successfully convinced people that what she does is good, just as Monsanto has successfully managed to convince us that what they do is good and has created a stranglehold on plant science and agriculture. Pamela Isley is not a misunderstood environmentalist. She a self absorbed monster who tortures plants and forces them to do her bidding instead of protecting and caring for them.

    No wonder her creations and plants are constantly turning on her.

    That's not even going into the fact that she raped Bruce Wayne via vines in The Long Halloween, Clayface during the Court of Owls storyline, attempted to rape Time Drake in Superman/Batman 62, that the arc with Hush about the kids she "helped" during No Man's Land all came down with incurable illnesses and PTSD from from her touch which is one hell of a metaphor, or the fact that she does derive pleasure from humiliating and demeaning people.

    So even with the current canon and writing, she's 100% an evil monster. It's just that people can relate to her...not so much plants. They keep trying though. Plants are pretty noble like that.

  9. #24
    Mighty Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Little bit of A and a little bit of B, depending on the circumstance.

    I'd have her establish safe havens for children (and educate them on the importance of plant life) as well as providing them fruits and vegetables. But lashing out at those that harm plants like weed and pest control people, land development, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    A villain but whose motivations are sympathetic if not sustainable because of her methods and her lack of value for humanity.

    You can try and maker her into an anti-hero but, at least for me, it comes off like trying to make her a completely different character and ignore/downplay the impact of her villainy.

    Design wise, I don't think you can ever do better then B:TAS. Although I really liked her Justice League Action design.

    Basically this.

  10. #25
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    Yikes and Wow

    She truly is an enigma, this thread has been a great read, very thought provoking!

    I'm easy when it comes to Ivy, she's got me enthralled. I'm doomed and don't seem to mind

  11. #26

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    I love her voice and how she is portrayed in TAS.

    As for her looks I love when she's very pale (not full on green) and her costume is visibly made of leafs. Barefoot Ivy is also a plus. Oh, and very long hair with leaves in it.

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    A picture would last longer darling...

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Ivy is exhibit A of a trend I’ve noticed with female villains. Any female villain that gets popular get turned into a heroine. Their is no female equivalent to the Joker or Darkseid because any female rogue that would rise to that level would turn face long before becoming that infamous.

    I think it has something to do with gender and power dynamics. Super villains by design tend to have some kind of power over the hero they fight . It can be physical, mental or psychological. But it seems a lot of creators take issue with putting females in those roles. The only type of power female villains tend to have over the hero is sexual power.
    Last edited by mathew101281; 07-15-2019 at 11:08 PM.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MentalManipulator View Post
    Barefoot Ivy is also a plus.
    It really is. And it fits the character.

  14. #29

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    Echo barefoot Poison Ivy look.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    Ivy is exhibit A of a trend Iíve noticed with female villains. Any female villain that gets popular get turned into a heroine. Their is no female equivalent to the Joker or Darkseid because any female rogue that would rise to that level would turn face long before becoming that infamous.

    I think it has something to do with gender and power dynamics. Super villains by design tend to have some kind of power over the hero they fight . It can be physical, mental or psychological. But it seems a lot of creators take issue with putting females in those roles. The only type of power female villains tend to have over the hero is sexual power.
    Yeah, Cheetah has been sympathetic ... forever. And in spite of being Wonder Woman's great foe, constantly helps her achieve victory against worse threats.

    Granny Goodness, maybe, though. But I guess she's not on the level of Darkseid because she's subordinate.
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