Has ANYONE CALLED OUT Marvel Comics for their actions with fan characters ?

[Rosebunse]

I need to ask, what would you all do if you could write these stories?

[JKtheMac]

If you don't like the books, don't buy them. Don't encourage people to harass writers and artists.

Indeed, encouraging others to harass in certain circumstances is illegal, yet when people do it with writers or editors it somehow becomes ‘fandom’. Odd world.

I need to ask, what would you all do if you could write these stories?

They would write things the way they think would be non-controversial and either be shocked at the poor sales or be harassed by fans who don’t like it. Probably both.

[skyvolt2000]

It's their characters not the fans, so I take issue with the term fan characters.

I get that the books wouldn't exist without readers but that doesn't mean they should have ANY input. That way leads to Clone Sagas and the sort.

Back in the Jemas days, Marvel relished the public controversy. They would even stir up fake controversy to get headlines. It was fun at the time to see unfold and he kne exactly how fans would react.

But yeah, here's the cold reality. It's retailers who hold the power. Fans can drop books, complain, etc. As long as retailers order books, Marvel gets paid.

Bingo.

With certain books quality of story does not matter-the NAME on the book does. Thus that book still get orders despite folks NOT supporting the books.

Also some stores don't care because they can SELL the excess to places like Movie Trading Post. I wondered where they got the books from and I found out-comic book stores including Midtown comics. And it's not books like Ms Marvel or low sellers-it's books liek Hal Jordan & TGLC, Superman, Batman, Aquaman and other A listers.

Oh, you mean the people who were mad that Secret Empire reminded us that Nazis suck.

To have that issue you would have to READ the book. As we saw with them 90% did NOT read the books.

They took issue with who got hired and what got green lighted to be a book.

This annoys me because there are still so many issues within the comic book industry. Poor pay, poor working relationships, fewer opportunities for PoC and women, plus just the unstable sales model and Marvel's frequen ocershipping.

But no, let's complain about She-Hulk.

All of those would require EVERYONE sacrificing something.

And in some cases a COLD reality when it comes to certain books.

[Cth]

Okay, no.

This isn't an evolution for the character of She-Hulk. It's a reduction. It's reverting her back to her Savage She-Hulk days (when she wasn't popular BTW), and even further to the point where she's unrecognizable as a character.

They would never do something like this to a male character. Imagine taking Deadpool and reducing him to a dark, brooding edgelord. Fans would riot. But because She-Hulk is a woman in a man's playing field, it's just fine to take her and reduce the feminist aspects in favor of what very few people would call "growth."

I never said growth or evolution.

And yes they've done it to so many characters before.

Remember Speedball?

Yeah it's obviously because she's female.

Edit:
Hulk fans have put up with this for decades. We get a smart Hulk and creators want to badly write a dumb Hulk to have teams fight. It's a cycle that repeats. Welcome to the Hulk family She Hulk! Again it'll change that's the nature of comics.

It's fine not to like it but honestly there's not much you can do. And the over zealous fans are the ones making it hard to hear legit criticism.

[skyvolt2000]

Indeed, encouraging others to harass in certain circumstances is illegal, yet when people do it with writers or editors it somehow becomes ‘fandom’. Odd world.

They would write things the way they think would be non-controversial and either be shocked at the poor sales or be harassed by fans who don’t like it.

Fandom gets called out because they tend to be the most VOCAL.

Especially to folks who don interact with comic book fans on the norm.

If you don't like the books, don't buy them. Don't encourage people to harass writers and artists.

Stop trying to use common sense

What I find FUNNY about this is what you said gets tossed out and encouraged UNTIL someone discovers what book you are talking about. When its something they LIKE suddenly your fan card gets called out.

John Stewart fans decided to NOT support Hal Jordan & TGLC book. Guess whose fan base called them out for not be REAL fans of Green Lantern when SALES were bad.

[cranger]

Companies want people to be passionate, to be excited about things they like and to be upset about what they don't like, and as mentioned this is happening at every convention, on social media and letters direct to Marvel.

Assaulting anyone, whether on social media or in person at a convention, is crossing the line. Disrupting a convention, whether it is at a booth or a panel, is crossing the line.

At the end of the day, if you cannot enjoy the ups and downs of following your favorite character, you need to move on, the only person you are going to publicly shame is yourself.

[KOSLOX]

Okay, no.

This isn't an evolution for the character of She-Hulk. It's a reduction. It's reverting her back to her Savage She-Hulk days (when she wasn't popular BTW), and even further to the point where she's unrecognizable as a character.

They would never do something like this to a male character. Imagine taking Deadpool and reducing him to a dark, brooding edgelord. Fans would riot. But because She-Hulk is a woman in a man's playing field, it's just fine to take her and reduce the feminist aspects in favor of what very few people would call "growth."

You mean like when they took Speedball and turned him in to a dark brooding edgelord?

[DragonsChi]

I don't anyone will openly state that fans should go out of their way to give ANYONE a hard time.

But an open conversation between fans and creators should be a thing. It's been happening in one form or another sense the dawn of time.

If fans do not speak up things will continue on a downward spiral. Staying quite does nothing but seal it's demise because if someone thinks they are doing something right they will shift the problem onto something else.

Freedom of Speech is a thing for a reason.

[ed2962]

Wait, what's the big controversy surrounding She-Hulk? I'm so out of the loop.

Jennifer instead of being depicted as a sexy sassy lady body builder is now being written and drawn as a female version dumb Hulk from the 70's.

But just as upsetting for some is that Aaron has taken a couple of pot shots at internet critics and some people have decided to take that personally.

[Venomous Mask]

Jason Aaron has stripped her of her unique character and is now writing her like the Hulk with tits; but who cares if he's reductively transformed a derivative character into the original (You know, the one thing you're not supposed to do to a derivative character if you want people to stay interested in them.), stripped her of of her facilities making smart like Ox, and not make words good; since her body type no longer conforms to conventional standards of attractiveness... that's clearly all that matters.

Oh, ok, I see. I think that She-Hulk's new look is a bit ridiculous, but to go on screeds about how she isn't 'hot' anymore, that's just stupid. I will say that from Hulk canon, we all know how unstable gamma mutation can be, both on the body and the mind, so She-Hulk developing a more feral personality, at least temporarily, is not out of the question. I don't know if it's been done yet, but I'd love to see an in-universe scientific piece that goes into the effects of gamma on one's body, bringing in nearly all of the continuity and trying to make a coherent theory about it.

[Snoop Dogg]

Oh, ok, I see. I think that She-Hulk's new look is a bit ridiculous, but to go on screeds about how she isn't 'hot' anymore, that's just stupid. I will say that from Hulk canon, we all know how unstable gamma mutation can be, both on the body and the mind, so She-Hulk developing a more feral personality, at least temporarily, is not out of the question. I don't know if it's been done yet, but I'd love to see an in-universe scientific piece that goes into the effects of gamma on one's body, bringing in nearly all of the continuity and trying to make a coherent theory about it.

Ewing's kinda done that now.
By making gamma magic.

[Cth]

Oh, ok, I see. I think that She-Hulk's new look is a bit ridiculous, but to go on screeds about how she isn't 'hot' anymore, that's just stupid. I will say that from Hulk canon, we all know how unstable gamma mutation can be, both on the body and the mind, so She-Hulk developing a more feral personality, at least temporarily, is not out of the question. I don't know if it's been done yet, but I'd love to see an in-universe scientific piece that goes into the effects of gamma on one's body, bringing in nearly all of the continuity and trying to make a coherent theory about it.

There was an interesting What If (I think this one -> https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/What_If%3F_Vol_2_80) that said gamma affects each individual differently based on their mental state which did a great job at a Grand Gamma Unification Theory

[Thor-Ul]

Marvel can do with the characters whatever they want. If they want, they could turn Captain America gay and marrying him with Bucky, because depiste being created by Simon and Kirby, they have the property of the characters to do it. They are the legitime owners of the characters. They can do it. Simple.
As a reader, as a consumer, as a fan you have several options:

If you like the change, you can keep buying ad reading comics and share your hobbie wth other persons who think alike,sending a signal to the publisher than tells them they are right.
If you don't like the change, well, you can drop the book, hoping to return later when thing go back to previous status quo; you can continued buying the book depiste don't like the changes because you simple can't stop buying decause you simply do it from habit and express you disconformity talking with others or for internet,but don't expect things return soon to a previous status; You can give up comics or just superhero comics and developt other hobbies; You can read other characters you enjoy more. Or re-read the old comics you enjoyed in your time. Maybe Marvel is doing the right thing with the changes and you dislike them because they are not your characters (they never were yours, either) or simply they are driving the bussiness down. Not your problem. Your comics will not dissapear. And there are many options in life.

True, you can express your disconformity with the authors in Marvel, but you must keep in mind:

1. You must keep your manners. In the age of internet basic cortesy has been lost. And cortesy it is relevant, specially if you act irrationally, either in internet or ptp. Screaming louder don't distort the universe to fit your perceptions.
2. The author are neither the owners of the characters, they give a proposal (or asked by) approved editors, (many times a book can be either helped or killed by a good or bad editor) so you should think than if it had not been him, it would have been another.
3. Everything goes back, cyclically. Eventually everything goes back, because you must change thing to keep them the same. Mostly.

So no, nobody should "call out" Marvel. They can do whatever they want. You can express you dislike about what Marvel does, politely. If you do that, then nobody either could call you to shut up and don't express your feelings about that. But keep in mind, always, politely.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Given what happened to She-Hulk in recent years in the comics it makes me wonder if anyone called out Marvel Comics for their actions in PUBLIC, via Comic cons or something like that ?

I mean Forums and Twitter is one thing, but a PUBLIC SHAMING is another. Right ?

As fans of Marvel comics: What do you think of this ?

The inherent problem with "public shaming" is you end up defeating your own message. Recent history should have taught us by now that this type of organized self-righteous "shaming" as you put it always leads to targeted harassment, no matter how justified or pure your original intentions were.

[Username taken]

Marvel can do with the characters whatever they want. If they want, they could turn Captain America gay and marrying him with Bucky, because depiste being created by Simon and Kirby, they have the property of the characters to do it. They are the legitime owners of the characters. They can do it. Simple.
As a reader, as a consumer, as a fan you have several options:

If you like the change, you can keep buying ad reading comics and share your hobbie wth other persons who think alike,sending a signal to the publisher than tells them they are right.
If you don't like the change, well, you can drop the book, hoping to return later when thing go back to previous status quo; you can continued buying the book depiste don't like the changes because you simple can't stop buying decause you simply do it from habit and express you disconformity talking with others or for internet,but don't expect things return soon to a previous status; You can give up comics or just superhero comics and developt other hobbies; You can read other characters you enjoy more. Or re-read the old comics you enjoyed in your time. Maybe Marvel is doing the right thing with the changes and you dislike them because they are not your characters (they never were yours, either) or simply they are driving the bussiness down. Not your problem. Your comics will not dissapear. And there are many options in life.

True, you can express your disconformity with the authors in Marvel, but you must keep in mind:

1. You must keep your manners. In the age of internet basic cortesy has been lost. And cortesy it is relevant, specially if you act irrationally, either in internet or ptp. Screaming louder don't distort the universe to fit your perceptions.
2. The author are neither the owners of the characters, they give a proposal (or asked by) approved editors, (many times a book can be either helped or killed by a good or bad editor) so you should think than if it had not been him, it would have been another.
3. Everything goes back, cyclically. Eventually everything goes back, because you must change thing to keep them the same. Mostly.

So no, nobody should "call out" Marvel. They can do whatever they want. You can express you dislike about what Marvel does, politely. If you do that, then nobody either could call you to shut up and don't express your feelings about that. But keep in mind, always, politely.

Well said.

And I'd like to add on general note that while we are all "nerds" to some extent, we shouldn't define ourselves by the media we consume. It's an unhealthy habit that sometimes leads to folks getting too worked up about stuff that as you rightly pointed out in this case will likely not be permanent.

It also leads to some people feeling like they own the characters.

I'm all for people expressing their displeasure with storylines but ultimately if you don't like something, you really shouldn't spend your hard earned money on it. And if you're going to express yourself, do it politely.