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  1. #391
    Ol' Doogie, Circa 2005 GindyPosts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post

    I think I agree. Everyone's just talking past each other. In retrospect, this should've remained a "safe place" for non-MCU fans.
    We'll, we're either supposed to like the movies, or we're "fanboys of a rival studio" or hating on it because it's the cool thing to do. There's no justifiable reason to dislike the franchise, apparently.

    Quote Originally Posted by The True Detective View Post
    Are you kidding? The DCEU by far is the most hated not only superhero movie franchise, but the most hated movie franchise of the last decade or so, period. Only the Star Wars prequels come anywhere close. The MCU is put on a pedestal by the vast majority of the internet, let's not act like the vocal minority here and there means there's any real hatred for it.

    Ask yourself who's the most hated superhero movie director? Answer, Zack Snyder (hated mainly for his DCEU films).

    What's the most hated superhero movie? Answer, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (DCEU) Followed very closely by Suicide Squad (DCEU).

    Most controversial and mocked scene? Martha scene in BvS (DCEU)

    Most hated superhero movie performance? Any one of the following: Jared Leto in Suicide Squad, Henry Cavill in Man of Steel and BvS, Ben Affleck in Justice League, or Jessie Eisenberg in BvS. All are DCEU movies.

    Think of the way the majority of the internet leapt to James Gunn's defense when his controversial tweets resurfaced. I know for a fact of it was Zack Snyder in his place that wouldn't have happened. There's no contest, whether It's deserved or not the DCEU is far more hated then the fawned over MCU.
    This.

    Now, the movies did stink (Batman vs. Superman especially), but the DCEU films certainly get a heaping amount of hatred in them to where you can't say anything remotely GOOD about Justice League without having to begin by admitting in a joking manner that it wasn't that good to begin with.
    Last edited by GindyPosts; 08-19-2019 at 09:18 PM.

  2. #392
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Because we're fans on the internet. Because the comic book movie genre has grown so much since 1999, perspectives change as we have a wider ranger of stuff to compare and have seen the genre develop further. Because we don't all think the same. Something else. A bit of everything. Take your pick.



    I think I agree. Everyone's just talking past each other. In retrospect, this should've remained a "safe place" for non-MCU fans.
    The internet was around before the MCU. The war only exploded after the first Avengers movie. Many people's mind switched into shallow kingdom after they saw the first crossover superhero movie because the question now became why cant Spiderman, Xmen, Blade and F4 be in Avengers movies. that was when the hatred started for every marvel movie that marvel studios didn't make. This was when there became a rise in the bizarre hatred for fox and sony since fox and sony held the rights and to some were stopping more crossovers. what is worse is , some ''professionals'' who run comic news sites jumped on the fox and sony hate bandwagon when they are supposed to keep things neutral and not take sides.

    Personally I found it ridiculous not to mention ignorant. If anyone ever read or knew about Spiderman and xmen , F4, Blade. They would know crossovers were never a drawing factor with their stories, superhero crossovers like avengers and civil war worked best for marvel characters that first found success as part of a cinematic universe which on paper was a very interesting concept but not so interesting for every marvel character as we are all brutally learning from how Spiderman's world seems poorly done in the MCU.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-19-2019 at 10:28 PM.

  3. #393
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    We'll, we're either supposed to like the movies, or we're "fanboys of a rival studio" or hating on it because it's the cool thing to do. There's no justifiable reason to dislike the franchise, apparently.
    IMHO, that all depends on the reason; is it pure opinion, or is a claim of objective fact that doesn't hold up (e.g. the Marvel "formula"idea)? There's a difference between "you're wrong for having those tastes in entertainment" and "you're making an argument that doesn't hold up to an examination of the facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    The internet was around before the MCU.
    Yeah? Fans have always found ways to communicate and get into arguments over this stuff. I just think the internet makes it easier (and seems to bring out the worst in some people, as we've seen with toxic Star Wars fans of late and They Who Must Not Be Named).

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    The war only exploded after the first Avengers movie.
    First I've heard of that; I recall the movie was a monster hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Many people's mind switched into shallow kingdom after they saw the first crossover superhero movie because the question now became why cant Spiderman, Xmen, Blade and F4 be in Avengers movies. that was when the hatred started for every marvel movie that marvel studios didn't make.
    I don't know; I'd like to see my favorite characters get involved in the crossovers when those stories are made; it's about the only way I'll tolerate crossover and events in

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    This was when there became a rise in the bizarre hatred for fox and sony since fox and sony held the rights and to some were stopping more crossovers.
    I don't know; all I can say is that I wanted Fox to continue the old X-Men series and not get a MCU reboot, while I was onboard with a Spider-Man one, since the Raimi movies were over and done and the Webb ones were pretty bad (IMHO).

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    what is worse is , some ''professionals'' who run comic news sites jumped on the fox and sony hate bandwagon when they are supposed to keep things neutral and not take sides.
    You talking about the Op-eds? Those are subjective and not meant to be "neutral." Also, I tend to treat all pop culture hubs as having a opinionated bend. Now there are some real propaganda sites (like that "Bleeding Cool" parody for Those Who Must Not Be Named) or ones that are strictly meant for opinions and perspectives (like the "Mary Sue"), so I don't think you can generalize them. (Also, most of the Fox "hate" I've seen seems to be more of the unevenness of the series, which is a valid point and not the MCU's fault. Only things Sony gets hate for are their ASM series -- which was genuinely badly handed and deserving of criticism -- and Spider-Man 3. Their other Spidey movies are pretty well-regarded, to make an understatement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Personally I found it ridiculous not to mention ignorant. If anyone ever read or knew about Spiderman and xmen , F4, Blade. They would know crossovers were never a drawing factor with their stories, superhero crossovers like avengers and civil war worked best for marvel characters that first found success as part of a cinematic universe which on paper was a very interesting concept but not so interesting for every marvel character as we are all brutally learning from how Spiderman's world seems poorly done in the MCU.
    In practice, the MCU does hardly any crossovers outside of the Avengers movies and most characters get a solo movie first or right after. We're never going to agree on Spider-Man, so don't thing there's anything else I can add to that.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  4. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    IMHO,I don't know; I'd like to see my favorite characters get involved in the crossovers when those stories are made; it's about the only way I'll tolerate crossover and events in
    It depends on what your favorite characters are. It all goes back to the root of the comics that as much as you want to ignore, cant. X-Men can function as its own self contained universe because the comics established the series as such. Most people who say xmen, F4, daredevil, and spiderman or blade are their favorite characters are usually the last people to get onboard with crossovers because their comics never relied on it. Batman is another type of figure too with DC that his biggest fans favor less crossovers and rather stick to things happening in Gotham.

    First I've heard of that; I recall the movie was a monster hit.
    I didn't say it wasn't a monster hit, I was talking about some of the negatives that came with a film like Avengers.

    You talking about the Op-eds? Those are subjective and not meant to be "neutral." Also, I tend to treat all pop culture hubs as having a opinionated bend. Now there are some real propaganda sites (like that "Bleeding Cool" parody for Those Who Must Not Be Named) or ones that are strictly meant for opinions and perspectives (like the "Mary Sue"), so I don't think you can generalize them. (Also, most of the Fox "hate" I've seen seems to be more of the unevenness of the series, which is a valid point and not the MCU's fault. Only things Sony gets hate for are their ASM series -- which was genuinely badly handed and deserving of criticism -- and Spider-Man 3. Their other Spidey movies are pretty well-regarded, to make an understatement.
    They claim to be neutral, that was my point. MCU is as deserving of some of the criticisms any other movie gets, except they don't really get the criticisms.



    In practice, the MCU does hardly any crossovers outside of the Avengers movies and most characters get a solo movie first or right after. We're never going to agree on Spider-Man, so don't thing there's anything else I can add to that.
    With the MCU, you are always informed in one way or another it takes place in a crossover universe. Us not agreeing on Spiderman does not mean MCU is doing the best job with the character. Marvel had its first cinematic crossover universe in the 90s and no one noticed because it wasn't as dependent on the concept as MCU is.


  5. #395
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    We'll, we're either supposed to like the movies, or we're "fanboys of a rival studio" or hating on it because it's the cool thing to do. There's no justifiable reason to dislike the franchise, apparently.



    This.

    Now, the movies did stink (Batman vs. Superman especially), but the DCEU films certainly get a heaping amount of hatred in them to where you can't say anything remotely GOOD about Justice League without having to begin by admitting in a joking manner that it wasn't that good to begin with.
    Theres nothing wrong with disliking the MCU. I havent scene anyone get combative with you at all(I stayed clear of the thread untill recently so maybe I missed it). Just depends how you word your arguement. If you sya you think this is weak or that. Or you just dont like it(Whatever reason doesnt matter). That's fine man different strokes for different folks. Its other people who go on the offensive attacking certain franchises by presenting their opinion as objective facts. I mean if your gonna state something as a fact and not just your personal take. Then you gotta be prepared to argue your case. Theres atleast 2 people on this thread who keep doing that but then never wanna elaborate further.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 08-20-2019 at 12:30 AM.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Theres nothing wrong with disliking the MCU. I havent scene anyone get combative with you at all(I stayed clear of the thread untill recently so maybe I missed it). Just depends how you word your arguement. If you sya you think this is weak or that. Or you just dont like it(Whatever reason doesnt matter). That's fine man different strokes for different folks. Its other people who go on the offensive attacking certain franchises by presenting their opinion as objective facts. I mean if your gonna state something as a fact and not just your personal take. Then you gotta be prepared to argue your case. Theres atleast 2 people on this thread who keep doing that but then never wanna elaborate further.
    In addition, there's a couple of posters and just one or two posters that keep getting banned, keeping changing user names and keep coming back to the forums that treat their opinion as objective fact.

    It's ok not to like anything to be honest. However, to discount others opinions or worse still, dismiss the general audience's appreciation of movies just because one doesn't like a movie is a bullshit thing to do.

    There are plenty of movies that have torn up the box office that I really don't care about, it's not for me to start making fun of these people or worse still start trolling them. People have different tastes than me, simple as.

  7. #397
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    It just becomes comical after a certain point to see the same posters saying the same things and posting the same videos and quoting the same “industry professionals” over and over, and in multiple threads. And a lot of times it feels less like an opinion, and more a regurgitation of something they heard.

    Feelings on this don’t change just because they post these same things again in a newer thread.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    It just becomes comical after a certain point to see the same posters saying the same things and posting the same videos and quoting the same “industry professionals” over and over, and in multiple threads. And a lot of times it feels less like an opinion, and more a regurgitation of something they heard.

    Feelings on this don’t change just because they post these same things again in a newer thread.
    Quoted for truth.

  9. #399
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    The non comic book reader who likes superhero movies doesn't care for the brand. He just cares if its good or bad. He doesn't think about X-Men not being in the MCU, he just thinks about X-Men in their own world.

    The casual movie goer recognizes the Marvel brand and associates it with quality, mostly. With DC its hit or miss I would say, as far as I can tell with people around me who never read a comic before.

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Marketing is all relative to the budget. MCU doesnt have smaller films to offset it like XCU and DCEU.

    Also sources please I havent looked into Shazam or Wonder Woman but SS/Aquaman/JL/BvS all had marketing budgets of 150+.. XCU has had plenty of low budget films but Dark Phoenix , Apoclypse, BvS, Justice League all had huge marketing budgets and it didnt help them at all. So let's keeps pretending that Marketing is the issue here.
    So we are in agreement the MCU on average has a more marketing cost, that what I’ve been saying.

    The DCEU is only seven movies in and it is doing very good. It’s on a higher pace box office wise than the MCU after seven movies. It’s on the pace to pass the MCU box office numbers when it reaches 22 movies.

    As for the XCU it was also very successful, because of it’s grittier storylines it was never going to have a MCU like box office. Apocalypse actually did great at the box office. XCU only turkey was Dark Phoenix. DP was a major miscalculation by Fox, we just seen a DP storyline in 2009, why they decided to do it again this soon is beyond me.
    Last edited by luprki; 08-20-2019 at 09:50 AM.

  11. #401
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    So we are in agreement the MCU on average has a more marketing cost, that what I’ve been saying.

    The DCEU is only seven movies in and it is doing very good. It’s on a higher pace box office wise than the MCU after seven movies. It’s on the pace to pass the MCU box office numbers when it reaches 22 movies.

    As for the XCU it was also very successful, because of it’s grittier storylines it was never going to have a MCU like box office. Apocalypse actually did great at the box office. XCU only turkey was Dark Phoenix. DP was a major miscalculation by Fox, we just seen a DP storyline in 2009, why they decided to do it again this soon is beyond me.
    The big thing I hope to see from Marvel rebooting the X-Men is them finally getting an ensemble cast done correctly - Fox focused in a a few characters film after film, everyone else was reduced to walk-ons and glorified cameos, even the characters who are supposed to be a big part of the story they were telling. I want a Cyclops who is there to do more than weakly stand in Wolverine's way. I want a Storm who is awesome, and a Jean who isn't the secondary character in her own story.
    Dark does not mean deep.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    The internet was around before the MCU. The war only exploded after the first Avengers movie. Many people's mind switched into shallow kingdom after they saw the first crossover superhero movie because the question now became why cant Spiderman, Xmen, Blade and F4 be in Avengers movies. that was when the hatred started for every marvel movie that marvel studios didn't make. This was when there became a rise in the bizarre hatred for fox and sony since fox and sony held the rights and to some were stopping more crossovers. what is worse is , some ''professionals'' who run comic news sites jumped on the fox and sony hate bandwagon when they are supposed to keep things neutral and not take sides.

    Personally I found it ridiculous not to mention ignorant. If anyone ever read or knew about Spiderman and xmen , F4, Blade. They would know crossovers were never a drawing factor with their stories, superhero crossovers like avengers and civil war worked best for marvel characters that first found success as part of a cinematic universe which on paper was a very interesting concept but not so interesting for every marvel character as we are all brutally learning from how Spiderman's world seems poorly done in the MCU.
    I personally prefer the "shared universe" model of the Marvel movies. I find the world building to be richer and more complex because it is spread out over a number of movies and characters. My mind did not "switch into shallow kingdom."

    I have decades of reading and knowing Spider-Man, X-Men, Fantastic Four, Blade, and multitudes of Marvel (and DC, and Image, and Dark Horse, et al) comics. Anyone with a passing reading of comics knows that you are so very, very wrong.

    The idea of a shared universe with crossovers, guest appearances, and name drops is baked into the very DNA of Marvel in general and Spider-Man in particular. The first Marvel crossover was back in 1940 with the Submariner and original Human Torch. Spider-Man tried to join the Fantastic Four in the first issued of Amazing. He tried to join the Avengers in an early annual. The first appearance of Doctor Octopus also had a guest appearance by Johnny Storm. The first appearance of the Green Goblin also had a guest appearance by the Hulk. The nature of the stories encouraged readers to buy all the titles in the line, giving birth to the term "Marvel Zombie".

    Crossovers were very much a drawing factor in the comics. This is especially true for the X-Men. Crossovers such as Mutant Massacre (tie ins with Power Pack and Thor), Fall of the Mutants (tie ins with Captain America and Daredevil), Inferno (tie ins with Spider-Man and Avengers), Onslaught (tie ins with pretty much all the titles) originated in the X-Men comics. These were the big important stories and drove sales.

    You may feel that Spider-Man is poorly done in the MCU, but given the commercial and critical success, you are in the minority. That doesn't make anyone who disagrees with you ridiculous or ignorant.
    Last edited by Rincewind; 08-20-2019 at 11:10 AM.

  13. #403
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanMad1977 View Post
    The non comic book reader who likes superhero movies doesn't care for the brand. He just cares if its good or bad. He doesn't think about X-Men not being in the MCU, he just thinks about X-Men in their own world.

    The casual movie goer recognizes the Marvel brand and associates it with quality, mostly. With DC its hit or miss I would say, as far as I can tell with people around me who never read a comic before.
    That's not really true though, in every interaction I have had with MCU fans they will inevitably admit that most of the films really aren't great, they just watch them because when they want to watch a movie they're actually looking forward too they want to have the complete narrative thus far.
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    You may feel that Spider-Man is poorly done in the MCU, but given the commercial and critical success, you are in the minority. That doesn't make anyone who disagrees with you ridiculous or ignorant.
    What a ridiculous argument, why do you feel the need to diminish criticism of your franchise by pretending your part of a mob? This just adds to my thesis that MCU fans have genuine problems with criticism of their beloved franchise.

    The funny thing is that, if you use the box office as a measuring stick of popularity, the MCU Spider-man is actually less popular than the Sam Raimi version. If you look at the domestic box office accounted for ticket inflation, the original Sam Raimi films were vastly more popular and successful. Not to mention more people saw them in theatres.

    1 Spider-Man $626,057,600
    2 Spider-Man 2 $542,030,300
    3 Spider-Man 3 $440,717,700
    4 Spider-Man: Far from Home $376,676,400
    5 Spider-Man: Homecoming $337,137,900
    6 The Amazing Spider-Man $303,438,200
    7 The Amazing Spider-Man 2 $219,513,500
    8 Spider-Man: Into The Spider-Verse $190,052,300
    #InGunnITrust, #ZackSnyderistheBlueprint, #ReleasetheAyerCut

  15. #405
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    MCU films are mostly forgettable and don’t stand the test of time. That’s why Disney floods the market with MCU films. We now get three MCU a year, because if they make one every two years, the general audience won’t come back. Other franchises can take 2 or 3 years off and still comeback strong with the general audience. The MCU can’t do this, so Disney keeps it fresh on the audience’s mind by flooding the market.

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