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  1. #136
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    You totally missed my point.
    No he didn't. He disagreed with you. Or rather called out your posturing as there's no way you don't remember anything from a film that you saw yesterday. If your point was to use exaggeration to prove your point, you were only half successful. Yes, you exaggerated, but your point was not proven.

    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    What are you talking about, there has been many superheroes movie that pushes the envelope.
    TDK franchise, Kingsman, Logan, Deadpool, Kick-Ass, Blade, The Punisher, Spawn, Christopher Reeve’s Superman and Michael Keaton’s Batman to name a few.
    What good is a superhero movie if it doesn’t push the envelope? That why the MCU is a dumb down franchise.
    I don't think a movie has to push the envelope or be ground breaking to be good. But clearly from your list, we have a very different definition of that. The only two of those that I would count as especially ground breaking were Superman (1978) and Batman (1989) because we legitimately hadn't seen anything like those before. When discussing superhero fare, I'd probably include Black Panther and maybe Avengers (2012) to the list as there has never been a big budget blockbuster to be as celebratory over African identity and Avengers again, nothing had ever really tried a crossover of this magnitude.

    But again, I quibble with your definition of pushing the envelope and I'd ask you to read the other post I've made in this thread which lists some movies that I actually view as pushing the envelope. So, maybe you could say why you think the movies you listed are groundbreaking.

  2. #137
    Mighty Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    I don't. No reason to. I'm mostly indifferent. But I know people who hate them because they say they have too many jokes and they have ruined superhero movies. :/

  3. #138
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    You totally missed my point.
    I understand your point very well. Your hand-wavy dismissal doesn’t change that.

    You definitely missed mine, though.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  4. #139
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    I understand your point very well. Your hand-wavy dismissal doesn’t change that.

    You definitely missed mine, though.
    I disagree with you, but I’m glad you’re the right person to respond to my post.
    You speak for yourself and I speak for myself, it’s all good

  5. #140
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    &
    Quote Originally Posted by C_Miller View Post
    I don't think a movie has to push the envelope or be ground breaking to be good. But clearly from your list, we have a very different definition of that. The only two of those that I would count as especially ground breaking were Superman (1978) and Batman (1989) because we legitimately hadn't seen anything like those before. When discussing superhero fare, I'd probably include Black Panther and maybe Avengers (2012) to the list as there has never been a big budget blockbuster to be as celebratory over African identity and Avengers again, nothing had ever really tried a crossover of this magnitude.

    But again, I quibble with your definition of pushing the envelope and I'd ask you to read the other post I've made in this thread which lists some movies that I actually view as pushing the envelope. So, maybe you could say why you think the movies you listed are groundbreaking.
    So, I guess we agree MCU doesn’t push the envelope. What sad even TV superhero shows (Gotham, CW’s Arrowverse, Legion, Krypton) is more daring than the MCU. I would love to see a MCU that would make me say “wow”

  6. #141
    Mighty Member C_Miller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    &
    So, I guess we agree MCU doesn’t push the envelope. What sad even TV superhero shows (Gotham, CW’s Arrowverse, Legion, Krypton) is more daring than the MCU. I would love to see a MCU that would make me say “wow”
    No no no. You seem to be making a habit of reading other people's posts and taking away what you want to rather than what the poster said. I don't believe any superhero movie pushes the envelope except for a small number. I have four examples and half were from the MCU, so I'm not sure what you think you read, but it absolutely is not that.

  7. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    Winter Soldier also doesn't overuse humor - the biggest LOL moment was Stan Lee's cameo, and that is right before the third act really gets underway, so it's the perfect moment (IMO) to use a joke to reset the mood before everything goes boom.

    When you look at comics,you get all types, just like with prose novels. You can't compare The Crow or V for Vendetta to the Adventures of Spiderman - different medians.
    Initially Marvel went this way, Captain America was tonally completely different from IronMan. But post Guardians everything became a comedy. And yes, I know I'm supposed to see Thor Ragnarok and it's director as magnificent but it owes more to Guardians than Norse myth. Marvel have decided to make every film a doppelganger of Guardians. I loved Guardians but I wanted to see Thor being Thor, not Peter Quill.

    I'm sure Marvel movies will continue to make money because they're excellent family froth, but I wonder how long it'll be before something else comes along that replaces them in the kids' interest.
    I stopped watching them post Ragnarok.

  8. #143
    Mighty Member electr1cgoblin's Avatar
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    They got some things very right. Captain America and Iron Man, both in casting and largely as written, are pitch perfect. I never, never warmed to Ruffalo as Banner/Hulk, or Renner as Hawkeye. On the fence on Scarlet as Widow; she did...OK, but that's about it. Hemsworth did well enough, but they wrote the character so inconsistently and never really understood how to make him regal, hot headed, loyal and yet still intelligent.

    Aside from Loki and Thanos, their villains have been very underwhelming. And yeah, killing most of them off doesn't help.

    I grow very weary of the increasingly "goofy" tone they have. GotG and its success has resulted in Thor being a drunken, de powered clown. Humor in the right places is great, but they've gone way overboard IMO. No, it didn't ruin Endgame, but it did seem weird that there was so much jokey jokey given the situation they were all in. Ant Man should be the comic relief, maybe some snark from Stark, but other than that, let's honor the very, very serious events that led up to this film.

    I have never liked the way the heroes looked. Yeah, I understand having Hawkeye wear his purple eye mask might be a bit much, but between the dark colors and the demystified costumes, I think they kind of "grounded" themselves out of a lot of majesty and grandeur. Comics are larger than life, but they often missed that point in the translation to screen.

    I do think they did a wonderful job of making their heroes imperfect and yet admirable people you really rooted and felt for. Without that nothing else matters, to me.

    I've long said that most of these stories require much, much more time than they were given. Four movies to tell the whole rich history of the Avengers? Three for Cap? No way. A season long mini series on TV would probably have been the best bet for most of these stories, but again, I know the creators have to work within the framework they were given.

    Certainly, whatever they did worked. And I'm definitely glad I lived long enough to experience it. That doesn't mean everything's perfect, though; and what are forums like this if not places to dream?

  9. #144
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    When you look at comics,you get all types, just like with prose novels. You can't compare The Crow or V for Vendetta to the Adventures of Spiderman - different medians.
    Initially Marvel went this way, Captain America was tonally completely different from IronMan. But post Guardians everything became a comedy. And yes, I know I'm supposed to see Thor Ragnarok and it's director as magnificent but it owes more to Guardians than Norse myth. Marvel have decided to make every film a doppelganger of Guardians. I loved Guardians but I wanted to see Thor being Thor, not Peter Quill.

    I'm sure Marvel movies will continue to make money because they're excellent family froth, but I wonder how long it'll be before something else comes along that replaces them in the kids' interest.
    I stopped watching them post Ragnarok.
    It seems to me, when Disney took control of the MCU it started to go downhill.

  10. #145
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motherofpearl1 View Post
    When you look at comics,you get all types, just like with prose novels. You can't compare The Crow or V for Vendetta to the Adventures of Spiderman - different medians.
    Initially Marvel went this way, Captain America was tonally completely different from IronMan. But post Guardians everything became a comedy. And yes, I know I'm supposed to see Thor Ragnarok and it's director as magnificent but it owes more to Guardians than Norse myth. Marvel have decided to make every film a doppelganger of Guardians. I loved Guardians but I wanted to see Thor being Thor, not Peter Quill.

    I'm sure Marvel movies will continue to make money because they're excellent family froth, but I wonder how long it'll be before something else comes along that replaces them in the kids' interest.
    I stopped watching them post Ragnarok.
    I remember when I first saw Winter Solider, I thought it was a big improvement for Marvel trying to tell a comic film that felt more for an adult audience. Chris Evans is a great Captain America, then I saw Age of Ultron the year after and my feelings just sank. It felt like such a disservice to Chris Evans to be in Age of Ultron after winter solider.

  11. #146
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    Lol at Kick-Ass being groundbreaking. 'Subversive' comic book deconstructions are a dime a dozen.

  12. #147
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    It seems to me, when Disney took control of the MCU it started to go downhill.
    Definitely. Age of Ultron was the first time you see that completely. the first avengers was lighthearted, charming and am sure every kid loved it but by age of ultron, those qualities started getting annoying because it was so overdone it was taking you out of the movie.

  13. #148
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    It seems to me, when Disney took control of the MCU it started to go downhill.
    Course, it was post-Disney that the MCU cracked the code for writing good villains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I remember when I first saw Winter Solider, I thought it was a big improvement for Marvel trying to tell a comic film that felt more for an adult audience. Chris Evans is a great Captain America, then I saw Age of Ultron the year after and my feelings just sank. It felt like such a disservice to Chris Evans to be in Age of Ultron after winter solider.
    Course, I would contend that he did have some of his best moments in that movie, in regards to the Avengers films.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  14. #149
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Course, it was post-Disney that the MCU cracked the code for writing good villains.




    Course, I would contend that he did have some of his best moments in that movie, in regards to the Avengers films.
    Disney fix one problem and created five more.

    Chris was always better in a solo CA movie, the first movie and Winder Soldier. I don’t consider Civil Wars a solo CA movie, it’s more of an Avengers movie.

  15. #150
    Incredible Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Not gonna lie. The first thought that popped into my head after reading the title of this thread was, "Hmm... I wonder how many threads online exist for "Does anyone hate DCEU films?"

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