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  1. #496
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    Wow, this thread is the gift that keeps on giving huh? Didn't see the China thing coming. I couldn't have even made that one up on my best day.

    (And well done capNthor!)

  2. #497
    Astonishing Member Kusanagi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Also I'm just going to say it; there are no billion dollar MCU films without the Chinese market and this is an audience that has, broadly speaking, advocates for annexation and authoritarianism. I genuinely do not care what the Chinese audience thinks, in fact, any movie that is popular in China has a strike against it as far as I'm concerned. You simply cannot tell nuanced and intelligent narratives in that marketplace.
    Morbid curiosity demands I ask, but where does Hong Kong get considered in this? Is it's fanbase untrustworthy because it's part of china, or does it's box office mean more because of it's protests against China?
    Current Pull: Amazing Spider-Man and Domino

    Bunn for Deadpool's Main Book!

  3. #498
    Astonishing Member Grey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Talk about deflection. You didnít even answer my question(s). Does the Aquaman movie have a strike against it? And is it not a nuanced movie? And is it an unintelligent movie?

    Or does your criteria only apply when you want it to?

    Careful. That last question is tricky.
    Still waiting on a response to this one.
    Your favorite superhero- the one you visit these forums to talk about. Would they talk to others the way you do on this message board?

  4. #499
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    Let’s get back to why we hate MCU films.

  5. #500
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    They fared the same as MCU movies, MCU fared worse to me because of how immature and disney cloned it is.
    MCU has had a far better track record with their properties. For example, they can actually make cinematic universes when they want to and rarely have to cancel stuff due to internal problems. Look, fair enough if you've preferred the Sony movies to the Marvel Studios ones, but there's no question that the latter has had more consistency in terms of success.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Too much Ironboy.
    And yet the point of the movies is that Spider-Man is not "Ironboy."

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Respect to Garfield for this scene. The first Garfield movie is a better ''spiderman'' movie to me than the 2 mcu movies as it captured ''spidermanisms'' better than the MCU.
    No, I don't see it at all. In fact, reason I don't care for Garfield's take is how un-Spider-Man he was in them. (Heck, in the ASM movies, despite being touted as the series where Spidey is as smart as he is in the comics, he had to buy his webbing and have other characters tell and/or show him basic scientific principles to solve his problems. Say what you will about Holland, but he could make his own stuff himself.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post


    If this was a MCU movie, RT will give it a 90%
    If this was the scene you were saying Garfield deserved respect for, no, there is nothing to respect. It's as cookie cutter a montage as any. Raimi did them better in his movie. Homecoming did it better (e.g. the scene where we see a day in the life). Spider-Verse did it the best with Kingpin's backstory. Even in the Garfield movies, the "Gone Gone Gone" scene was better. A montage with artistic flair that also advances the story beyond just skimming through a set-up process. The others do that, this one does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Sony has 3 spiderman films of a higher independently made driven quality to 2 marvel studios spiderman movies.
    Probably true (but Far From Home sees and raises that bet), but still, Sony has a much longer list of failures then Marvel Studios does. Besides, the point is, as we've seen from Raimi, to Spider-Verse, to MCU, the only times good Spidey movies were made under Sony was when they didn't interfere in the process or lead, which is not how they're running things now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    The sony spiderman critical reception is not tainted, questioned or untrustworthy. they came at a time, when superhero movies had to be more than fun.
    And a lot of the reviews for the weaker installments reflected that they weren't that good. Thing is, most of the Sony-made Spider-Man movies are bad movies and that's just on their own terms, irregardless of how they compare . Most of the problems go back to Sony brass, so, if they haven't learned their lessons, nothing is going to change.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    As for trust, where is the trust? I think MCU fans trust MCU. Many Spiderman fans don't trust MCU.
    How you figuring that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    Marvel has the same kind of track record as everyone else.
    Hardly. Twenty-some movies finishing in the black is nothing to sneeze at. Most studios would kill for Marvel's track record. Why do you think everyone's trying to make their own cinematic universe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    It goes back to the conversation discussion before . Marvel has no flaws and everyone does
    Straw man. No one is saying that. I'm not; I just happen to disagree with you on what is actually bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    You need to see the situation not from an MCU fan point but from a spiderman fan point that already had a successful spiderman trilogy.
    Since I'm a Spider-Man fan who happens to like other Marvel stuff, that's the only way I can see it. Because of that, I happen to think that Sony has failed Spider-Man ever since they killed Raimi's golden goose and stepped into the driver's seat. As a Spider-Man fan, I believe that Marvel Studios has shown that they understand the character far better then Sony could ever hope to and are the only reason the current movies work and that we better play that Sony makes a deal, since then the only people on deck who have proven to get the character are the Spider-Verse people and we know what Sony does to the people who work on their movies.

    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    Let’s get back to why we hate MCU films.
    It's very strength invites challenge.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  6. #501
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    Let’s get back to why we hate MCU films.
    We never left it.

    If one hates MCU films because of China’s box office, one is going to be asked why and if that stance is even across the board.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  7. #502
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    I don’t understand that China box office discussion. But I don’t like the MCU because it’s silly, childish with zero backbone.

  8. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    I don’t understand that China box office discussion. But I don’t like the MCU because it’s silly, childish with zero backbone.
    Don’t worry, nobody else understands it either.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  9. #504
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    MCU has had a far better track record with their properties. For example, they can actually make cinematic universes when they want to and rarely have to cancel stuff due to internal problems. Look, fair enough if you've preferred the Sony movies to the Marvel Studios ones, but there's no question that the latter has had more consistency in terms of success.



    And yet the point of the movies is that Spider-Man is not "Ironboy."



    No, I don't see it at all. In fact, reason I don't care for Garfield's take is how un-Spider-Man he was in them. (Heck, in the ASM movies, despite being touted as the series where Spidey is as smart as he is in the comics, he had to buy his webbing and have other characters tell and/or show him basic scientific principles to solve his problems. Say what you will about Holland, but he could make his own stuff himself.)



    If this was the scene you were saying Garfield deserved respect for, no, there is nothing to respect. It's as cookie cutter a montage as any. Raimi did them better in his movie. Homecoming did it better (e.g. the scene where we see a day in the life). Spider-Verse did it the best with Kingpin's backstory. Even in the Garfield movies, the "Gone Gone Gone" scene was better. A montage with artistic flair that also advances the story beyond just skimming through a set-up process. The others do that, this one does not.



    Probably true (but Far From Home sees and raises that bet), but still, Sony has a much longer list of failures then Marvel Studios does. Besides, the point is, as we've seen from Raimi, to Spider-Verse, to MCU, the only times good Spidey movies were made under Sony was when they didn't interfere in the process or lead, which is not how they're running things now.



    And a lot of the reviews for the weaker installments reflected that they weren't that good. Thing is, most of the Sony-made Spider-Man movies are bad movies and that's just on their own terms, irregardless of how they compare . Most of the problems go back to Sony brass, so, if they haven't learned their lessons, nothing is going to change.




    How you figuring that?



    Hardly. Twenty-some movies finishing in the black is nothing to sneeze at. Most studios would kill for Marvel's track record. Why do you think everyone's trying to make their own cinematic universe?



    Straw man. No one is saying that. I'm not; I just happen to disagree with you on what is actually bad.



    Since I'm a Spider-Man fan who happens to like other Marvel stuff, that's the only way I can see it. Because of that, I happen to think that Sony has failed Spider-Man ever since they killed Raimi's golden goose and stepped into the driver's seat. As a Spider-Man fan, I believe that Marvel Studios has shown that they understand the character far better then Sony could ever hope to and are the only reason the current movies work and that we better play that Sony makes a deal, since then the only people on deck who have proven to get the character are the Spider-Verse people and we know what Sony does to the people who work on their movies.



    It's very strength invites challenge.
    If you challenge any opinion masquerading as a fact about the MCU it means you think the MCU is flawless and perfect. When theyre real criticisms to be had.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 08-22-2019 at 12:10 AM.

  10. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    I don’t understand that China box office discussion. But I don’t like the MCU because it’s silly, childish with zero backbone.
    Ah yes, the Xcu with its amazing backbone of "Wolverine is awesome" such great storytelling.

  11. #506
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Serious question there are a few people on here to seem to just hate the MCU wholesale. Why continue to watch the movies if you hate everything they stand for(The supposed formula, they are childish and shallow.. or whatever personal opinions you have about them). If I hated all the DCEU movies I'd stop watching them at some point. But I liked half of them. Same with the XCU.

    Again this is a genuine question. Just curious if it's you watch them out of hope It will be something different that you like. Just because your a comic fan and watch all the movies regardless. Hate watch it so your informed on the movie when you trash it. Cause 22 movies and you hate most of them, I mean you would think you would accept they arent for you and stop watching them at some point.

  12. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    Let’s get back to why we hate MCU films.
    This has been the thread though. People share their opinions (totally ok!) but then because they know their opinion is in the vast, vast minority they try and concoct reasons for it that are more objective or high-minded. The result is what we can probably label the "China Box Office Syndrome" where the lengths to which people will go is stunning.

    It's cool, you don't like the MCU. It's totally cool to say why. People can agree to disagree about those reasons, but this thread has been about a few of you pounding some things as "facts" when they are opinions.

  13. #508
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    When it comes to the point at hand, I don't hate the MCU, but I will say that out of the ones I've seen lately things have become more formulaic. I was actually worried that Black Panther was going to have this same comedy formula that some of the more recent takes have churned out, but the movie took itself seriously and was kind of stand alone rather than being a lead in for an Avengers sequel. I would want to see more like that in the next batch. I feel like the MCU (almost every hero needs to be a comedian) was doing the opposite of the DCEU (almost every hero needed to have ANGST), however it seems to be working.

    Eh, it's simply a double edged sword when a hobby you like becomes popular and mainstream...

  14. #509
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Serious question there are a few people on here to seem to just hate the MCU wholesale. Why continue to watch the movies if you hate everything they stand for(The supposed formula, they are childish and shallow.. or whatever personal opinions you have about them). If I hated all the DCEU movies I'd stop watching them at some point. But I liked half of them. Same with the XCU.

    Again this is a genuine question. Just curious if it's you watch them out of hope It will be something different that you like. Just because your a comic fan and watch all the movies regardless. Hate watch it so your informed on the movie when you trash it. Cause 22 movies and you hate most of them, I mean you would think you would accept they arent for you and stop watching them at some point.
    It’s simple for me, hate is probably too strong of a word, but I use it for the context of this thread. I really don’t hate MCU movies, but I do dislike most of them. I kept watching because I was hoping I’ll get something I like. I liked Black Panther and IW, but those were the only recent ones I liked. That’s why I keep watching, because sometimes they’ll made one I like. But after this year, I probably won’t comeback until BP 2. I didn’t like CM and EG, FFH was terrible.
    Last edited by luprki; 08-22-2019 at 09:33 AM.

  15. #510
    BANNED Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    MCU has had a far better track record with their properties. For example, they can actually make cinematic universes when they want to and rarely have to cancel stuff due to internal problems. Look, fair enough if you've preferred the Sony movies to the Marvel Studios ones, but there's no question that the latter has had more consistency in terms of success.
    These are from people that accepts that Iron Man 1 and Iron Man 3 are equally great. when you look at it that way, MCU has a better track record. What happens to other people that thinks Winter Solider is the only good film, that's a pretty poor track record.

    And yet the point of the movies is that Spider-Man is not "Ironboy."
    Maybe, but the two being linked caused a lot of problems, I just read someone in the spidemran forum who said iron man is not good enough to even clean spiderman's issues. Iron Man was a B-List character until when? Its still hard for many spiderman and xmen fans to buy unnecessary crossovers as it was not definite to their series.

    No, I don't see it at all. In fact, reason I don't care for Garfield's take is how un-Spider-Man he was in them. (Heck, in the ASM movies, despite being touted as the series where Spidey is as smart as he is in the comics, he had to buy his webbing and have other characters tell and/or show him basic scientific principles to solve his problems. Say what you will about Holland, but he could make his own stuff himself.)
    It is still better than spiderman using the iron suit, relying on tony too much. what you said about Garfield is not as bad as Pixar Spiderman. Holland comes off as a child. Garfield at least plays the teen role quite well.


    Probably true (but Far From Home sees and raises that bet), but still, Sony has a much longer list of failures then Marvel Studios does. Besides, the point is, as we've seen from Raimi, to Spider-Verse, to MCU, the only times good Spidey movies were made under Sony was when they didn't interfere in the process or lead, which is not how they're running things now.
    FFH seem less liked than homecoming. Sony practically only had one financial failure in Amazing Spiderman 2. MCU saw the second avengers film as a failure.
    if you think spiderman 3 and amazing spiderman 1 are failures what makes you think Iron Man 2 and thor 2 are not failures? Unless of course you do think MCU has no flaws.


    And a lot of the reviews for the weaker installments reflected that they weren't that good. Thing is, most of the Sony-made Spider-Man movies are bad movies and that's just on their own terms, irregardless of how they compare . Most of the problems go back to Sony brass, so, if they haven't learned their lessons, nothing is going to change.
    And if the sony movies were marvel movies, the reviews won't be as weak. Thor 3 has good reviews but it is as resented as spiderman 3, justice league and xmen 3.

    Hardly. Twenty-some movies finishing in the black is nothing to sneeze at. Most studios would kill for Marvel's track record. Why do you think everyone's trying to make their own cinematic universe?
    The marvel has no flaws narrative is the gift that keeps on giving. No. most studio won't kill for their track record because most directors won't want to make mcu movies like Disney wants them too. trying to create a cinematic universe doesnt mean everyone is interested in juvenile processed factory childish movies that are the same. DC originally wanted to do the opposite. They would have succeeded if Nolan had stayed.

    Since I'm a Spider-Man fan who happens to like other Marvel stuff, that's the only way I can see it. Because of that, I happen to think that Sony has failed Spider-Man ever since they killed Raimi's golden goose and stepped into the driver's seat. As a Spider-Man fan, I believe that Marvel Studios has shown that they understand the character far better then Sony could ever hope to and are the only reason the current movies work and that we better play that Sony makes a deal, since then the only people on deck who have proven to get the character are the Spider-Verse people and we know what Sony does to the people who work on their movies.
    From every conversation I have with you, I think you are one of the biggest and most loyal MCU fan I have ever met. Not saying you don’t like anything else but you obviously love mcu the most. Usually Spiderman fans, love their comics, you have dismissed the comics many times. Spiderman fans don’t really appreciate Pixar Spiderman or the disney kids appeal angle, you have tried to convince me spiderman is like a pixar character, when we both know the only reason he is as such is because disney is making his movies.

    Spiderman fans right now see opportunities with sony , you have called spiderman leaving the mcu revolting. When you try to talk about spiderman or even x-men, you look at both series from MCU eyes, not from the eyes of their respective universe, which to me is not something I agree with as both series have proven they do well on their own when there is less MCU involved.

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