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  1. #526
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Jesus man you have saint hood level of patience. I would responded to all of that with one paragraph.
    Eh, more like I like a good rhubarb now and then. Also, can't stand it when people misunderstand or misrepresent what I'm actually saying. Twist what I say, and I'm willing to type a lot until my point is made.

    That said, I'm not sure if this guy is really interested in an honest conversation or setting the record straight so much as he/she is in reinforcing his/her anti-MCU worldview and that everyone who disagrees is a bunch of blind shills.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
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  2. #527
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Eh, more like I like a good rhubarb now and then. Also, can't stand it when people misunderstand or misrepresent what I'm actually saying. Twist what I say, and I'm willing to type a lot until my point is made.

    That said, I'm not sure if this guy is really interested in an honest conversation or setting the record straight so much as he/she is in reinforcing his/her anti-MCU worldview and that everyone who disagrees is a bunch of blind shills.
    Yea I get into these debates and then tell myself never again. Then a month later I'm board and end up responding and falling down the rabbit hole again. Pretty sure a couple of the people in this thread are people I've gotten into these arguments with before. Just back with a new Screen name. If were being honest we all know after maybe two replies if the debate is ever gonna go anywhere, yet we keep taking the bait.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 08-22-2019 at 09:19 PM.

  3. #528
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Yea I get into these debates and then tell myself never again. Then a month later I'm board and end up responding and falling down the rabbit hole again. Pretty sure a couple of the people in this thread are people I've gotten into these arguments with before. Just back with a new Screen name. If were being honest we all know after maybe two replies if the debate is ever gonna go anywhere, yet we keep taking the bait.
    Yep, same story here.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  4. #529
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    That's a symptom. Starting as a bold idea of a shared universe beyond what has ever been done before in movies, they have fallen into a pattern of playing it safe at the risk of vastly reduced creativity. The worst part is it pays off because that seems to be what the public wants.
    Look that creating the type of movies that the audience wants. Isn't that a novel idea. It is not a symptom. DCEU movies did so so with audiences and critics when they lighten up the colors(Wonder Woman) and start to have fun with movies Shazam and Aquaman. Financially and critically the movies did better. It is almost as if the general audience wanted a certain thing.

    I can say with confidence audiences aren't going to get behind of extended stuff that isn't fun for a long period of time. The Joker could do well but it is not the norm the wide audience wants to see for series but you aren't going want to watch 20 movies in the style of Joker. You aren't consistently going back over and over to something that isn't going to make you happy. On a mass scale, you aren't going to retain an audience without rewarding them with happiness. Thinking the spots of humor in MCU movie is a bad thing is crazy to me. Batman V Superman is nearly unwatchable again because the first half of the movie is a drag. Some well-timed humor would have that movie more watchable and the same thing goes for Dark Phoenix as well.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-23-2019 at 03:35 AM.

  5. #530
    Incredible Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Look that creating the type of movies that the audience wants. Isn't that a novel idea. It is not a symptom. DCEU movies did so so with audiences and critics when they lighten up the colors(Wonder Woman) and start to have fun with movies Shazam and Aquaman. Financially and critically the movies did better. It is almost as if the general audience wanted a certain thing.

    I can say with confidence audiences aren't going to get behind of extended stuff that isn't fun for a long period of time. The Joker could do well but it is not the norm the wide audience wants to see for series but you aren't going want to watch 20 movies in the style of Joker. You aren't consistently going back over and over to something that isn't going to make you happy. On a mass scale, you aren't going to retain an audience without rewarding them with happiness. Thinking the spots of humor in MCU movie is a bad thing is crazy to me. Batman V Superman is nearly unwatchable again because the first half of the movie is a drag. Some well-timed humor would have that movie more watchable and the same thing goes for Dark Phoenix as well.
    I wonder if this affects your god of rotten tomatoes. I am still eager to hear any logical explanation of how GOTG 2, Batman Begins, Deadpool can get the same 84% on rt when two represented a game changer for the series and one is still considered among the worst , most childish and most disappointing in their own series.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-23-2019 at 04:44 AM.

  6. #531
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    So once again Rotten Tomatoes is a quick easy way to see a collective opinion of a movie. But How do you tell if a movie is good?

    1. How much money did the movie make?

    2. How well did a review with critics?

    3. How well did it do in the awards?

    4. How well did it do when people go back reexamine things how does place among other movies whose quality has been determined over time.

    We have actually measuring sticks but some people won't talk about them. I wonder why?
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-23-2019 at 07:37 AM.

  7. #532
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I wonder if this affects your god of rotten tomatoes. I am still eager to hear any logical explanation of how GOTG 2, Batman Begins, Deadpool can get the same 84% on rt when two represented a game changer for the series and one is still considered among the worst , most childish and most disappointing in their own series.
    Whoever considers Batman Begins to be childish and disappointing probably needs to be slapped.

  8. #533
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Whoever considers Batman Begins to be childish and disappointing probably needs to be slapped.
    Batman begins is probably the most disappointing and the worst of its own series. I don't know why he thinks it is childish tho



    http://superheroes.theringer.com/
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 08-23-2019 at 07:45 AM.

  9. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Batman begins is probably the most disappointing and the worst of its own series. I don't know why he thinks it is childish tho



    http://superheroes.theringer.com/
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    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I wonder if this affects your god of rotten tomatoes. I am still eager to hear any logical explanation of how GOTG 2, Batman Begins, Deadpool can get the same 84% on rt when two represented a game changer for the series and one is still considered among the worst , most childish and most disappointing in their own series.
    The explanation is you don't actually know or care what Rotten Tomatoes measures. I would go into detail about how the overall score, top critics score, average rating scores, or audience score are calculated, but you seem determined to misunderstand so that you can dismiss it.
    Last edited by Rincewind; 08-23-2019 at 08:06 AM.

  11. #536
    Brandy and Coke DT Winslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beaddle View Post
    I wonder if this affects your god of rotten tomatoes. I am still eager to hear any logical explanation of how GOTG 2, Batman Begins, Deadpool can get the same 84% on rt when two represented a game changer for the series and one is still considered among the worst , most childish and most disappointing in their own series.
    I agree, Batman Begins is complete rubbish. Deadpool and Guardians 2 as gamechangers is completely undeniable.

    Glad we are all getting into agreement in the thread.
    Last edited by DT Winslow; 08-23-2019 at 08:04 AM.

  12. #537
    Incredible Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Batman begins is probably the most disappointing and the worst of its own series. I don't know why he thinks it is childish tho



    http://superheroes.theringer.com/

    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Whoever considers Batman Begins to be childish and disappointing probably needs to be slapped.
    I was referring to GOTG 2 not Batman Begins as the most childish and disappointing superhero movie in recent years. the first one was fun but brainless. GOTG 2 is hardly fun and still brainless.


    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    So once again Rotten Tomatoes is a quick easy way to see a collective opinion of a movie. But How do you tell if a movie is good?
    The collective opinions of only MCU fans.

    How much money did the movie make?
    Was this like Avatar? one of the weakest James Cameron movies or the Force Awakens, a movie only slightly better than Episode 1? This is a shallow argument. box office is not a measurement for anything. some studio even believe the dumber your movies are, the more money is there to be made. Iron Man 3 showed this was a true.

    . How well did a review with critics?
    You mean critics who are struggling to gain their reputation back in indies films or the many critics who admit they do at times have to be bias to get more access to a studio. Who won the film war with the last jedi and thor 3 in 2017. fans or critics?

    These are the same critics that don't know GOTG is not suppose to be getting good reviews based on the humor factor? How did these critics give endgame a good score for one of the contrived time travel story ever but were so lukewarm to the time traveler's wife.

    How well did it do in the awards?
    Didn't Disney try to hijack the academy awards last year? 3 years ago, two people admitted that although they voted for 12 years a slave for best picture, they never saw the film.

    Didn't George Lucas once say awards are done based on which studio has the most money to spend and its not about talents.

    What about Steven Speilberg, he was ignored for the first 15 years of his career at the oscars, What of Ben Aflleck, was nominated for producer with Argo but shut out for the directing category because the Oscars didn't want to give a person who was considered more an action movie star a best director award.


    We have actually measuring sticks but some people won't talk about them. I wonder why?
    To get a real credible measurement of a movie is to break down the entire movie and be able to talk something good about it if you can base your measurements on the acting, directing, producing, cinematography, visual effects , writing, editing, then your measurement is sound. you have tick boxed all important aspects of good film making. Its far more sound than the box office and awards, which is the most shallow things I have ever heard and believe me any director will tell you the same thing as they say it all the time.

    I don't care how much this movie made or what the RT is. this was a terrible movie, everything is almost bad , the acting, the cinematography, the scoring, the script, the animated looking visual effects, the directing.



    This movie can't rub the same shoes as Spielberg's Artificial Intelligence and there is credible film measurement to showcase it. AI had better AIs, AI had a better script, AI highlighted some reoccurring themes of childhood, humanity, evolution. AI was better directed with a clear vision, AI is a good sci-fi drama, AI makes you think. AI cared a lot about the plot and was not not eager to rush into the next visual effect scenes, the performances in AI are better especially Haley Joel and Jude Law. Those are the measurement that makes AI a better movie than Age of Ultron not RT or box office. RT and Box office at this point are now market strategies ,they have no bearing to the art quality of a movie. No wonder Disney and Marvel are obsessed with it.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-23-2019 at 08:48 AM.

  13. #538
    Fantastic Member luprki's Avatar
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    MCU movies doesn’t stand the test of time with the exception of Black Panther. They are empty calories, it’s like eating a meal that does nothing for you. They will never be considered a classic like Star Wars, The Dark Knight, Avatar and Christopher Reeves Superman. MCU is not re-watchable.

  14. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by luprki View Post
    MCU movies doesn’t stand the test of time with the exception of Black Panther. They are empty calories, it’s like eating a meal that does nothing for you. They will never be considered a classic like Star Wars, The Dark Knight, Avatar and Christopher Reeves Superman. MCU is not re-watchable.
    If we all just sigh, shrug our shoulders, and say “OK”, can the drudgery end?

  15. #540
    Incredible Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    LOL to the max over this. Anyways:

    Can't speak for anyone else, but when I disagree, I do because I think the movie in question is actually good. Heck, you don't like Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2? I do and can explain why using criteria from the movie itself, pretty much the exact opposite of blind MCU fans.


    .
    It’s expected that you disagree as you believe mcu has no flaws and no bad movies. To you mcu has does nothing wrong and we are fools to bet against them. These are your words.

    I'm sure Marvel's bean counters and business exects would disagree with you there.
    The sad reason their critical reception and business experts holds no value to anymore who has no financial share
    I was going off of the box office numbers and the RT score. If Disney wanted to finish further in the black, fair enough.
    Box office numbers that Disney called a failure
    https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-...ure-80867.html

    can you imagine an xmen or DC fan saying dark phoenix and JL was a box office success? Hardly.

    As for RT score, I rather just use real film criticism staring in my face, the poor choice in story, misguided directing by whedon due to studio interference that was obvious in the film, poor cinematography, bad film editing, disjointed plot, poor use of characters especially ultron himself and terrible childish screenplay of age of ulton is what made it a bad movie, even a bad Disney movie since I have watched better Pixar kid fridnely films to age of ultron. Critics were very irresponsible for giving it a good rt score, good reason critics words means nothing anymore.

    Clear all right. Clear as mud. Fine, I'll lay it on the line for you. I'm a Trekkie first and foremost (why do you think I hate the Kelvin timeline movies?). I'm a Star Wars fan second (got into a disagreement with a coworker for saying that Rise of Skywalker, not Endgame, was the biggest release of the year). I'm a general Spider-Man third (check my posting history if you like). The MCU isn't in the top seven. We good?
    What you tell your coworkers has nothing to do with me. What you told me is GOTG movies have more character development than almost 800 worth of star trek episode plus telling me untrue things about Spock’s character in a trek movie just to make fat thor look less bad? That all sums of the biggest mcu fans who thinks MCU is the greatest gift to mankind.

    To be frank, of the ones of those I've seen, they're of a kind with the MCU one. I literally do not understand how you see otherwise.
    which one? It cant be spectacular spiderman. Disney cancelled it and replaced it with a new series that most spiderman fans disliked. I think this is where the deslike for disney spiderman started long before he showed up in mcu movies.
    It can't be the video game either, the gamers made it clear he was not going to be following the footsteps of any movie. PS4 Spiderman was an original indie adult take on the hero. it can’t be the raimi movies and it can’t be spiderman tas. None of the 4 are factually similar to mcu spiderman.

    Okay, but that's hardly a decent sampling and doesn't jive with what I've seen in general outside this forum.
    the general outside sampling is showcasing many people were never wholeheartedly on board with mcu spiderman, if sony can get it together.
    You tell me; you're the only one I can see who's obsessed with "Pixar Spider-Man."
    spiderman was never a pixar character. I dont get obsessed with something that I know was not true from the get go. I just find it cringe worthy.
    I just love how you ignored me saying that I actually think SM3 was good (flaws, but good anyways). That's an opinion I've hardly been shy about. (As far as Homecoming being better then ASM1, heck yeah! No contest.)
    Homecoming is worse than ASM as a spiderman movie. is it an opinon? sure, does ASM have better logical reasons to back itself up as the better spiderman movie? Most definitely. Here are some
    Teen Spiderman works better than pixar kid spiderman
    Uncle Ben is better than Tony Stark
    Better take of aunt may
    A villain who no ties to Tony Stark
    The important themes of Spiderman comics.
    Tries to give Peter a back story unlike homecoming where his back story is to become an avenger
    Good portrayal of Gwen Stacey.

    I think you're letting your Marvel Studios hate cloud your judgement.
    it’s not hate, there is truthful evidence to support my position. Spiderman sells comics, he sells movies, he sells video games, he sells toys, he was a well established comic book property before the mcu , hardly any spiderman fan will ever call it revolting just because he is now leaving the mcu.
    That could work. The ones that work the best are the ones where Sony lets others take the lead and Raimi has nothing to prove. Still, I guess it would depend what his project was and all that. No one is infallible.

    You know, for all your protesting about blind MCU followers, you're the only one I'm seeing who's blind in their ideology (albeit a "Marvel is bad, Sony is good" perspective), seeming to twist everything you hear to fit that view, and not showing much willingness to actually explain things or provide rational logic behind what you're saying.
    I already said mcu has the biggest problems among all the studios. As bad as sony can be, marvel still has worse problems. sony's problems did not prevent spiderverse and spiderman 2 from happening, marvel studio's problems does. It’s note hate or twisting the truth , its the brutal reality of both studios.
    Last edited by Beaddle; 08-23-2019 at 10:11 AM.

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