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  1. #46

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    As movies, no.

    As a cultural phenomenon kinda. I would prefer more historical epics and just other kind of movies getting that spotlight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    They are appreciated for what they are, Hollywood pop-corn movies. That's what people are expecting from them, nothing more really, and that's what Disney delivers. (in a very efficient manner, commercially speaking)

    I don't think it really says a hell lot about how much the Marvel and Disney brands are "loved" but it does say something about the good reputation Disney has built to itself when it comes to action movies, each new movie surfing on the success of the previous one.

    Thse are adventure or action and adventure movies.

  2. #47
    Swollen Member GOLGO 13's Avatar
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    - Hulk side punching Thor completely off screen without provocation.

    - Hulk ferociously smashing Loki like a ragdoll on the floor with bits of tile/cement spaying the air. Resulting in "Puny god" line.

    - Tony responding to Steve's, "what are you without that metal suit?", with "Genius, Billionaire, Philanthropist, Playboy", while Natasha nods quietly.

    - Thor responding to criticism of his brother Loki with, "...well he's adopted."

    Yeah, more of this please forever.

  3. #48
    Peter Scott/Scott Peter SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    On this forum it may seem like a silly question, but given how Marvel movies are received when they come out and how they do at the box office, one could think that they're universally loved. The various movie fan/critic sites on youtube that I watch all seem to love the MCU unabashedly--they couldn't be more pro-Marvel/Disney if they were being paid to be. In a world where everyone loves the Marvel movies, someone who doesn't is likely to question their own response and wonder if they should be loving them, too.
    Absolutely nothing is universally loved. Just like absolutely nothing is universally hated.
    “Indifference and neglect often do much more damage than outright dislike.”
    -Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

  4. #49
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    Absolutely nothing is universally loved. Just like absolutely nothing is universally hated.
    Well, does anybody hate breathable air?
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogindy View Post
    I mean, just general hatred of the Marvel Cinematic Universe? The excessive use of comedy during scenes where you need to lay off the yuks? The disposable antagonists? The way the films are shot in a uniform pattern?

    I consider myself one of the card carrying members of this group, after originally finding embarrassment in feeling more enjoyment out of watching DC movies.

    This isn't me trying to be a hipster for the sake of being counterculture, or one of those subhuman slobs who are hating on films since I apparently find the notion of movies using women and minorities in positions of power and influence to be alarming to my masculinity and my dick, but rather coming from someone looking at this from a perspective of this being a long term project and wondering what is so special about everything.

    Naturally, there will be those coming in, and trying to destroy my arguments, but I'm not making these to say these films suck; I'm making these arguments to explain why I personally can't stand them.

    1. The Villains. This is my big one, and has always been, and always will be. So, it's going to be the bulk of the argument. For one, they die. A lot. In your standard cinema structure, the antagonist usually dies at the end of the film since there is no intention of them redeeming themselves as a means of getting their karmic retribution for all their wrongdoings throughout the film, and in the comic book movies from Tim Burton's Batman all the way through the Sam Raimi Spider-Man trilogy and even The Dark Knight Rises, they adhered to this formula in spite of comic books screwing around with characters cheating certain death given that unlike the comics medium (though there have been villains in Marvel and DC that have died and have stayed dead), films have to be finite and conclusive unless you plan on doing sequels, and even then, you rarely carry on the villain of the film unless said villain is the attraction (see virtually any horror franchise). I mean, pre-MCU, one exception to this rule was the Scarecrow from Batman Begins, who was reduced to a cameo in The Dark Knight since, well, that film had a much bigger antagonist. The reason why I am such a stickler and an asshole about this villainous death count is that the MCU is meant to be this overarching franchise meant to carry on for years and years, much like its comic book counterpart, and it would be like introducing an antagonist in each issue, and then killing the villain at the end of the issue, which while not sounding like the most apt comparison, typically has that feeling. The other problem I dealt with is that the villains fall into one of two categories; either they exist just to get punched, or they are fortunate enough to motivate the plot. While people can gush about villains motivating the plot, I personally believe only a small portion have been lucky enough to do so. Loki was the first one as he did something unheard of in the MCU; he lived through his first movie, and was used as the main threat in the first Avengers film, where even after the Avengers team was able to take him down, he was still kicking, and it wasn't until his run-in with Thanos that finally killed him. As much as I complained about Thanos's accomplishments ultimately meaning nothing in the grand scheme (which I still do believe, change my mind) given how the majority of Endgame is about reversing his actions and ensuring he doesn't exist anymore, the fact that he loomed for so long and was given the opportunity to be given his glory helped establish something. The only other villain remotely capable of being considered in this class I believe was Killmonger, who unfortunately, is in the "one and done" class, as his character was a villain, but rather than just being homicidal for the sake of evil's sake, his character was that of one who approached it from a world-weary perspective and didn't want to be pushed around. The vast majority of the other villains, however, fall into the former, where they exist as punchable objects that show up, make a comment or two about why they are doing their thing, get into the big fight, and die. Malekith, Ronan, Yellowjacket, Hela (yeah, she's a constant gush for the latter, but I firmly consider her as merely a punchable object), Red Skull... they don't get much time to establish themselves as threats, and the ones that remotely do only do so in that obligatory sense that reminds me of some Japanese shonen series where our hero has to get a power boost to take out this new villain. In comics, it's okay to focus more on the heroes, in my opinion, as they are the ones to drive the story, while the villains serve as the obstacle, while in the films, the opposite occurs; the villains are the ones that drive the story, as they are the ones that create the conflict, and if you have a bland or perishable baddie waiting (or even a good baddie that you know ain't leaving this film alive), it just drives me away from watching.

    2. Inappropriate comedy. Comedy is subjective, I know. That being said, I feel like comedic situations during scenes of drama or intense conflict take you away from the immersion and are only there for memetic purposes so the average person can go on Twitter or Facebook and go, "I liked it when they broke up the action and made the joke". Now, having a film with too little comedy winds up giving you a depressing slog, but again; if you have a serious moment, don't break up the moment just to sneak in a bit of humor to loosen the tension. Ideally, you use the comedy after the serious part is over to soften the blow of what just happened.

    3. Processed factory cinematography. The films are generally shot the same way, and produced the same way. I look at this more of a Disney decision than of those directing the films, as Bob Iger has made it clear he wants to minimize the risk in blockbuster films. And yet, it's due to this that these films just wind up giving that same monotony that "if you've seen one, you've seen them all".

    I don't know; I'm probably just some ignorant rube who doesn't appreciate fine art.
    I love the MCU films. But i agree with one of your point. Bland cinematography. They sometimes give great visuals like in Ragnarok, Dr Strange or Infinity War, But the way they are shot and edited, they feel very workmanlike to me. Just doing an okay job. But nothing very memorable and at times sloppy.

    Sometimes their trailers look more interesting then the movie. The first trailer of Infinity War had a wonderful shot at the end. The end is with all heroes running to face some unknown enemy. Most people point to the misdirection as instead of Hulk we had Bruce Banner in a Hulkbuster. I don't mind the misdirect at all. But the problem is that glorious shot is in the movie. Only its shot from above with Cap and Black Panther getting into an impromptu race. That's boring to look at.

    I have no illusion that these are nothing more than some well made movies. Fun. Enjoyable. But they are by no means, pieces of great art.


    I don't mind killing off villains at all. Marvel has a lot of characters. They can always come up with new and interesting ones, rather then doing the same thing all the time. Something which i feel Fox did in the X-Men films. Magneto is a brilliant villain. But the way they use him makes it feel that there are no other good villains in X-Men. Meanwhile in Spider-man films we already have two distinct and great villains over two films. And we have barely begun.

    Villains driving the plot isn't very interesting to me. Whatever the weaknesses of MCU films, and they do have a fair share of weaknesses, one thing they are very good at. is in crafting fun and nice heroes. Heroes people would love to watch on screen. While other filmmakers would think, 'Oh, look! The villain is really cool!" So, interesting. Far more interesting then the hero in fact. And 9 out of 10 times they would be correct. Villains are almost ways more interesting and complex then the heroes.

    But good heroes must be somewhat interesting. Or else why bother? So, they focus quite a bit, on the hero. And disproportionately so in comparison to the villain. That is how you love Tom Holland's Peter Parker/Spider-man. Even though he does not make much sense, in terms of character development. Earlier, he was overeager to be an Avenger. To be in the big leagues. He learns his lesson and tones it down a bit by the end of the first movie. But in Far from Home he makes a complete U-turn. Now he does not want to be a hero? Its messy. But Tom Holland steals the show again. I really prefer this sort of thing in the superhero films. Their protagonists are likable.

    Heroes driving the plot make them appear more dynamic and active. Dark Knight was a fantastic movie. But one of the reasons Batman there is a bit boring apart from Ledger's splendid turn is because almost everything he does in the movie, is in reaction to Joker. In contrast, Bruce Wayne was front and center in Begins, with him making his choices, his mistakes and his journey. He is very interesting in that movie in comparison to Dark Knight.

    And i have nothing to say about comedy. Its a subjective thing. I don't mind their comedy a bit. I really enjoy their comedy. Ragnarok is among my favorite MCU films.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 07-10-2019 at 10:29 AM.

  6. #51
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I always find it odd when fans of Marvel movies complain about the CGI in movies from other studios. I don't usually notice CGI (and it's kind of the low hanging fruit of movie criticism), but the CGI is the thing in Marvel movies that's the most perplexing to me. It looks like the movie has cut to an animation sequence or a video game. And I wonder if that's intentional. Like maybe it's become part of the aesthetic which would explain why Marvel fans don't notice it anymore.
    They also do the same in regards to the colour gradient used in other films as well. The vast majority of the films in the MCU library looks washed-out and dull, but they go around claiming other films are too dark and need to be brightened up. Square Enix is making an Avengers video game and one of the complaints they received was that characters looked drab, even though the colours used were nearly identical to their cinematic counterparts.

    To tie this into my tangent on the MCU's legacy; there aren't that many 'classic' films that, frankly, look like garbage.

    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

    I don't dislike the MCU films because they're Marvel branded, I dislike them because they're bad films.

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Well, does anybody hate breathable air?
    Voluntary human extinction people do.

  8. #53
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monyok Miclovan View Post
    Voluntary human extinction people do.
    Dying due to lack of breath is a horrible way to die, though. Are you sure about their preferred methods?
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member Joker's Avatar
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    It's true, the MCU general aesthetic is bland.

    Ragnarok had the most individual aesthetic, but that was mostly down to the trash heap planet, and not really in cinematography. Still, for visuals alone, it is one of my favorites, I don't know what else has as strong or unique aesthetic.

  10. #55
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    I don't hate them, but I largely don't care for them. They really lack individual aesthetic. Dr. Strange was the tipping point for me. I really wanted that to be INTERESTING and it was so decidedly not.

    I really liked Winter Solider and Civil War (minus the airport scene where the movie comes slamming to a halt for a CGI battle). I thought Chris Evans as Captain America, and Bucky and Falcon were all really well done characters that needed more time to shine. Infinity War was solid but way too animated. Avenger 1 and 2 were alright. Captain Marvel worked well until it didn't.

    The humor is always out of place and never allows the movies to "land" properly. I don't like playing EVERYTHING as a joke. I would really like to see something new with them, but after seeing Endgame and Far From Home...mehhhhh.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 07-10-2019 at 11:42 PM.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  11. #56
    Fantastic Member Wandering_Wand's Avatar
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    Hoooooo boy.


    I have complaints about the MCU that have been the same complaints for years now:

    -Incorrectly placed and/or "unearned" humor (basically it's cheap just to be in there and make everyone have a quick laugh). On the flip side, there's some very memorable comedic moments in the MCU.

    -MCU CGI, that is often praised, is just as choppy/crappy as just about any other (but not all) superhero movie. On the flip side, there's some great CGI in some of the movies.

    -Villains… Most people know at least phase 1-2 were fairly forgettable. On the flip side, there's been some gems!

    -Issues are almost always overlooked by critics… I don't want to elaborate on this one, I could write an essay.


    But, I think a lot of this is magnified due to the MCU's scope and scale.
    And, we're in a cinematic golden age of comic book movies. I think everyone should enjoy everything. I know there are fans of certain brands and heroes, but there is a layer of importance to support each other (DC and Marvel, most importantly). I own both MCU and DC movies, I see the vast majority of all of them in theaters and always try to have a good time.

  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Star_Jammer View Post
    Dying due to lack of breath is a horrible way to die, though. Are you sure about their preferred methods?
    When a movement is that small they probably don't sweat the details.

  13. #58
    Scarlet and Proud! Star_Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monyok Miclovan View Post
    When a movement is that small they probably don't sweat the details.
    Oh. Ok. Point taken.
    "Auto-correct is my worst enema."

  14. #59
    Spectacular Member Beaddle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post

    On a related note. "I am Iron Man" is now iconic twice over.

    I am Iron Man is cheesy. I think its RDJ voice or how he delivers the line. it does not bring up fear or awe like I am Batman. Speaking of how immature MCU can be, I didn't like the final exchange between Iron Man and Thanos in Endgame, along with the exchange of the first meeting between Spiderman and Captain Marvel. I was sitting in cinemas thinking what kind of juvenile writing is this. I am Batman strikes fear in people.

    Last edited by Beaddle; 07-11-2019 at 05:11 AM.

  15. #60
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    By that point, Batman could’ve said “Merry Christmas” and it would’ve been intimidating

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