Does anyone hate MCU films?

[Beaddle]

The X-Men was a 19 years successful franchise for Fox. Whether Disney can do better or not, we will see.

We will see but for now we can place logical bets based on if Disney did better with Spiderman, Star wars, Pixar and other Marvel brands like their video games to their animations. My bet is 4-1 they won't do better.

[Midvillian1322]

85% of MCU moves were not about ensembles. They had only 5-7 ensemble movies and in those 5 movies, the ensembles are just caught up in long running CGI battles and limited drama. one of my problems with the avengers ensembles movies is they have the littlest story of all MCU movies. They are the worst comic book story tropes. if this type of films goes over to the mcu xmen movies. X2 , X-Men 1 and First Class would be considered better X-Men ensembles. The only criticisms would be familiar faces.

A decent money would have only required fox to make its budget back, a far more decent entries like X2 or Logan would more than double their budget but at the same time X-Men keeps their more Adult themed drama driven superhero movies to the Disney unnecessary humorous kid friendly movies.

Would an X-Men movie qualify as a good ensemble if we see 7 xmen characters in san Francisco just fighting robots and aliens for 40-60 minutes or would that just be waste of story space? X2 was already ahead of its time to avoid this type of Michael Bay themed avengers comic movies and yet in X2, the stakes felt higher, the inner conflict among the characters felt more bitter and dangerous compared to the fun themed of most Avengers films.

I hate to say this but the final battle of X3 is not that different from Endgame and all the Avengers films and X3 is regarded as one of the worst X-Men comic films just for that alone. How is this difference from the avengers movies?



X-men ensembles are not meant to be like Avengers. This is straight from the comics.

What are these "Worst superhero tropes" that all these Marvel movies supposedly have?

[Theleviathan]

We will see but for now we can place logical bets based on if Disney did better with Spiderman, Star wars, Pixar and other Marvel brands like their video games to their animations. My bet is 4-1 they won't do better.

Honestly, this sentence lacks coherence. I don't even know what that sentence was supposed to be other than an attempt to wedge "logical" into a sentence it doesn't fit in. So, let's try something here: Mostly you're monologuing at people. Try not to do that and answer these questions:

What does it mean to "do better"?

Why are you purposely limiting things to video games and animations when we've seen major box office success on those properties with disney oversight? Why is that relevant (or irrelevant in the case of what you're omitting)?

One of the reasons there was a long mod post in another thread is that you aren't really engaging other people in meaningful, serious conversations so it comes off to people as something they accuse you of or report you for. So, please, try and engage those two questions with integrity and honesty. Not another monologue please.

[XPac]

We will see but for now we can place logical bets based on if Disney did better with Spiderman, Star wars, Pixar and other Marvel brands like their video games to their animations. My bet is 4-1 they won't do better.

Depends on what you mean by better. I'd argue even Sony would say Marvels Spider films helped the IP. Sony's spiderverse is in a much better place because the MCU turned him into a billion dollar movie franchise.

[Beaddle]

Depends on what you mean by better. I'd argue even Sony would say Marvels Spider films helped the IP. Sony's spiderverse is in a much better place because the MCU turned him into a billion dollar movie franchise.

If you were a singing judge, how do you know which singers are the worst? Let me give you an example from two movies.

Which one do you think has better visual effects or a better looking cinematography.

This

[Beaddle]

Or this



What movie looks cleaner, sharper and more polished but also a lot less animated for a life action movie? if we were to stereotype , what movie look less than an action figure advertisement?

I swear Bryan Singer superficially hating comic movies was one of the best things to ever happen to comic movies in terms of superheroes films evolving.

And its not just abut visual effects although they are very important to comic movies, it also about plot, story and drama. None of mcu best qualities and disney would even admit it, its the reason they don't get along with many of their MCU directors.

[WebLurker]

And its not just abut visual effects although they are very important to comic movies, it also about plot, story and drama. None of mcu best qualities and disney would even admit it, its the reason they don't get along with many of their MCU directors.

Funny, I found the Avengers clip told a far more interesting story then the X2 one; more variety in the battles, more character moments, that sort of thing (I liked the Incredibles plane sequence a lot more then the X2 one for those kind of reasons). Personally, I'd place Stryker's assault on the school as the best action scene of that film, esp. with the Wolverine/Stryker scene that caps it off. Logan also managed to make their battles different each time around and advance the character's stories in a way I don't think some of the earlier ones did. Have to say, I think the character scenes stick out to me as working the best; Xavier and Magneto's chess conversations across the movies, Wolverine and Rogue in the car and train, anything with the main trio in Logan.

I guess for me, I'm kind of a characters first person and I find that I connected to the MCU characters a lot more then I do the Fox X-Men movie ones for whatever reason (Logan being the notable exception of an instant click). Lot of the Fox characters not named Logan, Professor X, Magneto, Mystique (Jennifer Lawrence version only) or Laura just seem to be lacking in dimension and personality somehow. Not sure what that says about me, but give me Peter Quill trying and failing to be Han Solo any day over Storm calmly saying her lines for the camera.

Notice you bring up themes and serious storytelling in your comments more. Would it be safe to say that that's your jam?

[Colossus1980]

I swear Bryan Singer superficially hating comic movies was one of the best things to ever happen to comic movies in terms of superheroes films evolving.

He damaged Superman's bankability for a long time with his extremely boring and underperforming film. Man that was a yawnfest. It showed in the box office too. Was there any action in that movie?

[Beaddle]

Funny, I found the Avengers clip told a far more interesting story then the X2 one;

As a MCU fan, its understanding you found it more interesting. I didn't, because X2 is an adult comic story based on one of the most iconic social conscious, intellectual challenging, and political driven adult graphic novels and it's still only 70% as good as the novel, This is why we can't ignore the comics. Infinity war is one of the most kid friendly comic movies like someone already said, the giant purple man is very distracting alone.

Infinity war was all over the place with the not so ''greatest'' visuals. Also this was about visual effects and cinematography , the film criticism I am actually doing instead of talking about something as irrelevant as rotten tomatoes. Pinsir already posted the same problems in civil war and that is still a better looking movie than infinity war. Perhaps Disney wanted an even more animated look for infifnty war and engdame because of the GOTG characters.

more character moments, that sort of thing (I liked the Incredibles plane sequence a lot more then the X2 one for those kind of reasons). Personally, I'd place Stryker's assault on the school as the best action scene of that film, esp. with the Wolverine/Stryker scene that caps it off.

About alien invasion, characters stopping alien invasion . that is the most important comic book kind of story or is it the easiest screenplay to write? that's why I don't find it all that interesting to X2. I already said X2 can't qualify as a comic film now, X2 is better off getting compared to EX Machina.

Personally, I'd place Stryker's assault on the school as the best action scene of that film, esp. with the Wolverine/Stryker scene that caps it off. Logan also managed to make their battles different each time around and advance the character's stories in a way I don't think some of the earlier ones did. Have to say, I think the character scenes stick out to me as working the best; Xavier and Magneto's chess conversations across the movies, Wolverine and Rogue in the car and train, anything with the main trio in Logan.

Any visual scene in X2 will stand out better than infinity war because the directing technical style of the movie is different.

I guess for me, I'm kind of a characters first person and I find that I connected to the MCU characters a lot more then I do the Fox X-Men movie ones for whatever reason (Logan being the notable exception of an instant click). Lot of the Fox characters not named Logan, Professor X, Magneto, Mystique (Jennifer Lawrence version only) or Laura just seem to be lacking in dimension and personality somehow. Not sure what that says about me, but give me Peter Quill trying and failing to be Han Solo any day over Storm calmly saying her lines for the camera.

Am a character person first also, I have issue with mcu movies because what mcu characters do is run after a usually simple plot with little personal character breakdowns. Also because most MCU movies are very light, this problem is expanded upon. You can argue mcu characters do more but only in their own movies that most xmen characters don't have. I only compared xmen to the other ensembles mcu movies.

Notice you bring up themes and serious storytelling in your comments more. Would it be safe to say that that's your jam?

What was the point the director of xmen 1 was trying to get across to audiences with the first scene of the movie, if you research it, it’s very interesting. Read the director of the TDK films follow up , its gets more interesting about just how people viewed superhero films prior to X-Men 1, it was very unflattering. Now its kind of sad because you finally realize Logan was was truly the end of an era for certain types of comic movies disney thinks would not be as interesting for kids. Not

[jetengine]

He damaged Superman's bankability for a long time with his extremely boring and underperforming film. Man that was a yawnfest. It showed in the box office too. Was there any action in that movie?

Also killed the X-verses second attempt lets not forget.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Wow....this thread is still going, and so is this debate, lol.

[luprki]

The XCU was a socially conscious drama that focused on real everyday important life situations. The MCU is family friendly comedy that has no important relevance to everyday life. It’s just a cash grab for Disney, which is why they pump out three a year. I’m sorry, but let’s be truthful here.

[Cyke]

The XCU was a socially conscience drama that focused on real everyday important life situations. The MCU is family friendly comedy that has no important relevance to everyday life. It’s just a cash grab for Disney, which is why they pump out three a year. I’m sorry, but let’s be truthful here.

I like the X-Men for being socially conscious dramas but the sheer amount of think pieces and academic essays out there about Black Panther and Captain Marvel and what they've done for Black representation and women's struggles is nothing to sneeze at. If we extend that to MCU television (and it's fair if it's not counted), likewise analyses of Luke Cage with his hoodie and inner city empowerment, Jessica Jones with PTSD and abuse, Daredevil with gentrification are plenty as well (on the other side, Iron Fist and its problematic issues of Asian representation also produce these think pieces, but even if they're critical of IF, it still produces text anyway).

It's not a zero-sum game. If the X-Men can do it, others can (and have) as well. Logan is a great example of a movie providing even small but mainstream exposure to extremely pertinent issues like water access, elder care, diaspora, loss, and legacy. I love it all. Heck, mutants in the movie aren't analogus to a race or sexuality, but now to a whole population of immigrants and refugees, which is a great change of pace. But on the same token, for every one of those themes explored within Logan, there's another one to explore in BP or CM through intersectionality -- keep some of the same topics but replace "refugees" from Logan with Blackness in BP and women in CM and suddenly all three movies are talking about same-yet-very-different topics, because that lens provides a fundamental shift -- discrimination of Black folks, women, and refugees can overlap but one solution does not work for all three groups, and so they become very different paths nonetheless.

Lastly, let's not forget that the X-Men were a cash grab for Fox. and that's not a bad thing. *every* movie is a cash grab. Nobody makes movies for free -- even fledgling high school filmmakers and the most idealistic documentarians hope to get something out of the process. Being a cash grab isn't the problem, it's whether or not something is a high enough quality to spend money on it. Hell, there would be no further X-Men movies if the first one didn't make gangbusters -- The X-Men *need* to be cash grabs to sustain itself.

[luprki]

Social consciousness is in the fabric of X-Men, they don’t do it just to look like they’re woke. Only recently the MCU is doing something to pretend like they are woke.

Franchises stay alive because they make money, yes. But Disney go way beyond this by flooding the market with three movies a year, that’s what I mean by cash grab.

[Frobisher]

Wow....this thread is still going, and so is this debate, lol.

What page number is the debate on?