'Spider-Man' Sequel Filming Start Date Revealed; Jon Watts Confirmed To Return

[Zeitgeist]

count me as one of those crazies who likes to see how far a concept can be interpreted and reinterpreted. the best cover songs sound different to the original

Oh boy are you in the wrong place

[boots]

Oh boy are you in the wrong place

but i followed the yellow brix?

listen mate, just hand over the brain, the heart and the courage and i'll be on me way

[SpiderClops]

I've never understood the complaints regarding Iron Man in Homecoming, being that
1) Peter has always looked up to elder geniuses throughout various media iterations from Curt Conners in one of the cartoons to Otto Octavius in the PS4 game, the only difference is that it's a hero this time
2) Peter has always looked up to elder statesmen superheroes: a) his hard-on for Cap in particular in the comics is hard to miss b) one of his first acts was trying to endear himself to the Fantastic Four, and c) there's Peter's Civil War ties to Tony

Wasn't one of the big things about Homecoming Stark telling him "not to be the first me, but be the first you"? Am I imagining things? I feel Far From Home will further that.

Pretty much.

Peter: I want to be like you!
Tony: And I wanted you to be better.

[Zeitgeist]

Pretty much.

Peter: I want to be like you!
Tony: And I wanted you to be better.

Right!

The thing is, he's still a kid, and he's still finding his way in the world as both a human and as a hero. Who didn't aim to try and emulate someone when they were growing up, after all? Personal hero, father figure, etc. It's only through real trial, error and maturity that you find your real self. Spider-Man has always been about superheroes reflecting the growing pains of real life and vice versa. If people want to see him break out as his own man - give it time. Let the story unfold.

[Agent Z]

You can't do Felicia Hardy with a teenage Spider-Man. Bendis showed that in USM where rather than make Felicia a teenage he made her an older woman and had his jokes while Kitty Pryde/Shadowcat actually filled the function and dynamic that Felicia originally i.e. a love interest who could also be his field partner who's compatible with Spider-Man but not as much with Peter. Now that the Fox deal happened, you can bring Kitty Pryde, Iceman, and heck Johnny Storm to Midtown and that would allow them to do "Amazing Friends" complete with May houserooming them. It would be awesome. I would love for an adaptation of The Owl/Octopus War myself though.



Well Bond does cycle through an assortment of disposable warm bodies. But obviously Spider-man isn't that character. He's a forever-guy and having him go new girl every film makes him come across as too douchey (this was a problem in Spider-Man 3 where they introduced Gwen after MJ, this after two movies making Peter and MJ the biggest romance in movies since DiCaprio and Winslet), and as Quesada himself said, "Peter Parker playing the field is out of character". And Marvel/Disney themselves don't like that, since Iron Man who is supposed to be a James Bond guy actually settled down with one girl to, and that was something Downey Jr. pushed for himself. And especially after the whole Me Too thing and so on (man I wonder if that's a factor in why they've taken time to put a new Bond movie because if there was ever a fictional character who'd be Me'Too'd if he existed it's that guy, and Me Too has had this huge effect already). The producer of Black Panther himself said that Iron Man's shtick in the first half of IM-1 wouldn't fly today (https://www.indiewire.com/2018/03/bl...sw-1201938017/).

But agree with the rest. In a superhero story, the villains have to provide new action, new fights, and basically new skills for the hero to show off. Like Mysterio himself as a villain...which I know the promotion is telling us otherwise but let's be real...introduces so many new stuff. And eventually they will do the Sinister Six and that's a story where Spider-Man fights half his rogues gallery all by himself and wins. That's not been done before. Like Nolan adapted parts of Knightfall for the third Dark Knight movie but without Bane blowing up Arkham and unleashing every bad guy and supervillain Batman locked up, and having him fight them all in a short stretch of time...you end up missing up something.

The Me Too movement is not concerned with guys having multiple relationships. It's concerned with sexual assault, harassment and abuse.

I don't really need to see Peter "playing the field" but I doubt Me Too is going to have an issue with him as long as he treats the girls he dates with respect and dignity.

The only relevance Me Too will have to Spider-Man is if they adapt Kevin Smith's "Evil That Men Do" which I really don't see the MCU doing.

Also, you can do Felicia with teenage Peter by just, you know, making Felicia a teenage herself.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

count me as one of those crazies who likes to see how far a concept can be interpreted and reinterpreted. the best cover songs sound different to the original

IN a cover song, the lyrics and the music is still the same. Jimi Hendix didn't change one word of Bob Dylan in All Around the Watchtower. The music and tune is also the same that Dylan set down. Hendrix simply took it to a higher level.

In the MCU they changed Ben for Stark, they changed the Master Planner lifting machinery and its emotions, they introduced that bizarre "suit with gadgets" thing. Peter also doesn't design his actual costume. That's not really a cover song, it's more a sampling of Spider-Man.

ymmv on the boundaires of straying too far from the source material

MCU is billed on doing the comics justice and so on. Their whole stick was being closer to the material than Sony would be. So far that hasn't happened.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Also, you can do Felicia with teenage Peter by just, you know, making Felicia a teenage herself.

Why do you think Marvel has never made a teenage version of Felicia? Not in the USM comics, nor in Weisman's Spectacular, and not even in the crappy Disney Spider-Man currently on air?

The reason is the character doesn't work as a teenager. She's an independent cat burglar who wears a sexy spy catsuit who does a lot of civilian schemes posing as a socialite or a rich man's girlfriend and being all seductive and so on. That kind of stuff might work in theory but in practise it would come off as skeevy in the sections of anime with girls in uniforms and so on do. Disney/Marvel would absolutely not be willing to deal with that kind of baggage and certainly not Spider-Man.

EIC Jim Shooter hated the Colossus/Kitty Pryde romance that Claremont was gonna make happen and he used SECRET WARS specifically to break that with the whole Zsaji thing after Claremont kept going rogue on him. Jim Shooter also told Bill Mantlo when he pitched a plot to make Felicia Peter's babymama that it wasn't happening specifically because he didn't want the Bible Belt going on about Spider-Man being a bad role model and so on.

[boots]

IN a cover song, the lyrics and the music is still the same. Jimi Hendix didn't change one word of Bob Dylan in All Around the Watchtower. The music and tune is also the same that Dylan set down. Hendrix simply took it to a higher level.

In the MCU they changed Ben for Stark, they changed the Master Planner lifting machinery and its emotions, they introduced that bizarre "suit with gadgets" thing. Peter also doesn't design his actual costume. That's not really a cover song, it's more a sampling of Spider-Man.

reverend jack, it’s a general analogy. you don’t get points for breaking it down and pointing out how different a cover song (same medium) is to a comic book to movie adaptation (different mediums).

isnt it...obvious?

and it doesn’t change that i like wild creative license over devotion to source material

MCU is billed on doing the comics justice and so on. Their whole stick was being closer to the material than Sony would be. So far that hasn't happened.

you can hold them to this vague “billing” (embillment? the billining?) that happened at x time and y place, if you like my dude.

[Mister Mets]

The Me Too movement is not concerned with guys having multiple relationships. It's concerned with sexual assault, harassment and abuse.

I don't really need to see Peter "playing the field" but I doubt Me Too is going to have an issue with him as long as he treats the girls he dates with respect and dignity.

The only relevance Me Too will have to Spider-Man is if they adapt Kevin Smith's "Evil That Men Do" which I really don't see the MCU doing.

Also, you can do Felicia with teenage Peter by just, you know, making Felicia a teenage herself.

It would be tough in the modern context to have a teenage femme fatale.

[Zeitgeist]

It would be tough in the modern context to have a teenage femme fatale.

She could be precocious without being sexual. Like Layla Miller.

[Agent Z]

Why do you think Marvel has never made a teenage version of Felicia? Not in the USM comics, nor in Weisman's Spectacular, and not even in the crappy Disney Spider-Man currently on air?

The reason is the character doesn't work as a teenager. She's an independent cat burglar who wears a sexy spy catsuit who does a lot of civilian schemes posing as a socialite or a rich man's girlfriend and being all seductive and so on. That kind of stuff might work in theory but in practise it would come off as skeevy in the sections of anime with girls in uniforms and so on do. Disney/Marvel would absolutely not be willing to deal with that kind of baggage and certainly not Spider-Man.

EIC Jim Shooter hated the Colossus/Kitty Pryde romance that Claremont was gonna make happen and he used SECRET WARS specifically to break that with the whole Zsaji thing after Claremont kept going rogue on him. Jim Shooter also told Bill Mantlo when he pitched a plot to make Felicia Peter's babymama that it wasn't happening specifically because he didn't want the Bible Belt going on about Spider-Man being a bad role model and so on.

Felicia was a teenager in Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane.

Also, she doesn't have to be a femme fatale to be a cat burglar. Spectacular made Molten Man a teenager despite him being an adult in the comics.

[Prof. Warren]

In the MCU they changed Ben for Stark, they changed the Master Planner lifting machinery and its emotions, they introduced that bizarre "suit with gadgets" thing. Peter also doesn't design his actual costume. That's not really a cover song, it's more a sampling of Spider-Man.

They didn't change Ben for Stark. That's a complete misreading.

Peter has had many important male figures in his life in the comics, they aren't replacements for Ben.

Peter was already inspired to heroism by Ben. Tony is another figure in Peter life who fulfills a different role.

Having a visual allusion to the lifting the great weight in "The Final Chapter" in Homecoming is simply referring to a classic moment in the comics.

It doesn't mean that Tony has "replaced" Ben. It means that "The Final Chapter" and Homecoming are two different stories. That there is a callback that comic fans can appreciate - much like the visual nod to Hulk's Secret Wars feat of holding up a great weight in EG - doesn't not mean that it is replacing anything. It's just a shout out that longtime fans will recognize while the general audience doesn't need to know the reference in order to appreciate the drama of the scene.

And Peter did design his actual homemade costume. The fact that Tony gave him another costume doesn't mean that Peter didn't have his own.

Regardless, I don't think Peter's identity as a superhero is dependent on his abilities as a tailor.

MCU is billed on doing the comics justice and so on. Their whole stick was being closer to the material than Sony would be. So far that hasn't happened.

The MCU is not billed as "doing the comics justice." It's not specifically "billed" as anything at all. What it is recognized for, though, is Marvel being able to control how their characters are depicted on screen. When Sony and Marvel made their deal to share Spider-Man, it wasn't about "being closer to the material than Sony would be." Both Raimi's films and Marc Webb's were pretty on point, more or less. Which is why it would have been redundant to follow too closely in their footsteps.

The benefit that was meant to be gained by bringing Spidey into the MCU fold was in having him be a major player in that universe and be a part of that larger universe and ongoing narrative. And that's exactly what's happened.

[Kevinroc]

She could be precocious without being sexual. Like Layla Miller.

Didn't she go on to marry Jamie Madrox?

[Frontier]

When someone complains that Tony "forced" a suit onto Peter in IW when he was in fact saving his life, I think it shows how ridiculous the attitude towards Tony and Peter's relationship is with some fans - that any assistance from Tony is perceived as weakening Peter.

With the length of the assistance, I think it's an issue.

I've never understood the complaints regarding Iron Man in Homecoming, being that
1) Peter has always looked up to elder geniuses throughout various media iterations from Curt Conners in one of the cartoons to Otto Octavius in the PS4 game, the only difference is that it's a hero this time

And I think that's the problem for me, because with those other examples you stated ended up being villains who Spider-Man inevitably has to overcome and defeat on his own, so they were mentors but they were also obstacles for Peter to overcome and surpass by defeating them...something I don't think we'll get with Iron Man now.

2) Peter has always looked up to elder statesmen superheroes: a) his hard-on for Cap in particular in the comics is hard to miss b) one of his first acts was trying to endear himself to the Fantastic Four, and c) there's Peter's Civil War ties to Tony

I like Peter looking up to Cap and being close to the FF, but I wouldn't want either of them giving Peter his costumes and tech when he was starting out or needing to tell him what he needs to do as Spider-Man.

Wasn't one of the big things about Homecoming Stark telling him "not to be the first me, but be the first you"? Am I imagining things? I feel Far From Home will further that.

My issue is to have another hero have to tell Spider-Man that works against the character in my opinion.

I felt Into the Spider-Verse actually handled that kind of dynamic better and it felt more genuine coming from an actual Spider-Man. And I think that movie acknowledged that Spider-Man doesn't need a mentor because becoming Spider-Man is something that you have to do on your own.

Felicia was a teenager in Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane.

Also, she doesn't have to be a femme fatale to be a cat burglar. Spectacular made Molten Man a teenager despite him being an adult in the comics.

She was also at least eighteen in Spectacular.

(Aren't all female cat burglars in fiction femme fatale's? It's almost like a per-requisite...)

Having a visual allusion to the lifting the great weight in "The Final Chapter" in Homecoming is simply referring to a classic moment in the comics.

And it also comes off very differently with Tony Stark's voice-over vs. Uncle Ben.

[Mister Mets]

She could be precocious without being sexual. Like Layla Miller.

That's not the character. I get the argument for a different take in modern films, but that gets kinda sketchy considering the source material.

If you're going with a traditional take on the character in modern culture, it requires someone in her mid-20s at the youngest for both the character and the actress.