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  1. #286
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I feel this but I’m also excited to see how Yang writes Pyg and Supes interacting. That will be... interesting. Also it is fascinating to me that Pyg of all the Morrison villains has seen such popularity and usage.
    People like slashers with a gimmick. He's right out of 80s cinema.

    Zsasz is a little too straight forward to ever have caught on. No style, just general "he's cuhrazy" and a high body count which in Gotham means you get a free ice cream cone on your next visit to the GCPD.
    Last edited by Robanker; 12-02-2020 at 01:19 AM.

  2. #287
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    People like slashers with a gimmick. He's right out of 80s cinema.

    Zsasz is a little too straight forward to ever have caught on. No style, just general "he's cuhrazy" and a high body count which in Gotham means you get a free ice cream cone on your next visit to the GCPD.
    Zsaaz was in two Arkham games though (that’s how I learned about him no less) so it’s kinda surprising he hasn’t seen more use, but you do have a point. He’s a little too “normal” for Gotham (as bizarre as that is to say). They should let Green Arrow have him, you could get some interesting stuff out of a fallen 1% who has a need to kill tangling with Ollie I think.

  3. #288
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Zsaaz was in two Arkham games though (that’s how I learned about him no less) so it’s kinda surprising he hasn’t seen more use, but you do have a point. He’s a little too “normal” for Gotham (as bizarre as that is to say). They should let Green Arrow have him, you could get some interesting stuff out of a fallen 1% who has a need to kill tangling with Ollie I think.
    Zsasz was also in BoP and made fairly frequent appearances in the Gotham show.

    He's also going to appear in Batwoman.

    (And other than a one-off, I think GA getting Batman villains is enough of an issue unto itself).

  4. #289
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Zsaaz was in two Arkham games though (that’s how I learned about him no less) so it’s kinda surprising he hasn’t seen more use, but you do have a point. He’s a little too “normal” for Gotham (as bizarre as that is to say). They should let Green Arrow have him, you could get some interesting stuff out of a fallen 1% who has a need to kill tangling with Ollie I think.
    Zsasz really is just the prototype for Pyg at this point. Ollie has Onomatopoeia for his gimmick serial killer and he suits Ollie better, but honestly you can mostly append Zsasz into him (he's covered head-to-toe normally) and it still kind of works. Hell, in his first appearance he snuck back into the hospital to finish off Connor because he survived, much like Zsasz tried to do to Alfred. It's honestly a very easy retcon to have Onomatopoeia be Zsasz under there the whole time, though I like him also being a family man.

    It would be so cathartic to see Clark just slap both of them silly, too.

  5. #290
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I finally read this story and it was awesome, i definetly recomend it to anyone that has the slightless interest on Superman.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  6. #291
    Extraordinary Member Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I finally read this story and it was awesome, i definetly recomend it to anyone that has the slightless interest on Superman.
    I think they should make an animated movie about it. Its really good

  7. #292
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    I think they should make an animated movie about it. Its really good
    Only drawback is it’s kind of another origin story, even if it’s mainly focused on the Lees and not Superman. Still I agree with you, would love to see it animated.

  8. #293
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Only drawback is it’s kind of another origin story, even if it’s mainly focused on the Lees and not Superman. Still I agree with you, would love to see it animated.
    I think that most of the stuff relating to Superman's origins could be removed without changing much the overall story.

  9. #294
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I think that most of the stuff relating to Superman's origins could be removed without changing much the overall story.
    I feel like the origin stuff are pertinent as far as Clark's self-consciousness regarding his heritage and power and why he reacts to them the way he does in the present and how he relates to the Lees in that regard.

    Plus, Lana .

  10. #295
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Lana had like three panels.

  11. #296
    Comix Addict! Comics N' Toons's Avatar
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    I'm not sure where the idea came from to pit Superman against the Klan, but it first happened and came to prominence in the old radio show from the 1940's. I can tell you that it was a very good thing indeed, because it means that, by the 1940's, to pit a mainstream character like Superman against the Klan, shows that, even back then, the Klan was seen as an evil construct. I love that such a noble, strong hero like the Man of Steel can help stamp out fascism in this way. I love the Jungle Drums episode also.

  12. #297
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Lana had like three panels.
    I think more like 4-5 pages, but they were pretty memorable .

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I think it'd be fantastic either way but I'd rather it be animated, as long as it came with a full blown theatrical release and all the marketing that comes with that. No direct to DVD here; this thing gets put in cinemas or it doesn't get made.

    HOWEVER;

    the art style has to stay the same. Don't change it to that "Young Justice" inspired aesthetic they've been using for the cartoons lately. The style in this book is perfect, and deviating from that is a big mistake. It also has to be a high quality animation. Don't halfass it because good animation is expensive.

    Keep it aimed at kids. This was not a story where DC's cheap gratuitous violence has any place. No hearts ripped out of chests, no giant splashes of blood across the screen. This book was made to be a family friendly Pixar movie, and if DC can't make it a cartoon without losing that sensibility then don't do it at all.
    Well, I know this is a post that happened just before the pandemic, but at this point, I do not think will this story will ever be adapted to theatres, especially with the way WB is going nowadays. It could be a fun thing on HBO Max, but it's not going to theatres, given how the theatre business is going nowadays.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    People like slashers with a gimmick. He's right out of 80s cinema.

    Zsasz is a little too straight forward to ever have caught on. No style, just general "he's cuhrazy" and a high body count which in Gotham means you get a free ice cream cone on your next visit to the GCPD.
    I feel like Superman vs. a serial killer could be fun for an issue or 2 but would get boring. Serial killers are not a threat to Superman and really serial killers are too dark in a realistic way for a typical Superman story. Batman is a human and detective, him fighting serial killers makes sense, Superman is better off fighting alien dictators, super villain crooks, mad scientists, and corporate moguls. It's why people do not like serial killer Toyman from the 90s.
    Last edited by The Overlord; 12-29-2020 at 10:22 AM.

  14. #299
    Superfan Through The Ages BBally's Avatar
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    What's cool is that the original story wasn't the only Superman vs Bigotry story the radio show produced, there are like around 5 stories in the show that tackles bigotry.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...x-2Z94e1ZU3S7B


    The synopsis for each serial story:

    The Hate Mongers Organization: The two youths start a fire that spreads to six buildings. Danny O'Neil, a newsboy for the Daily Planet, tells his friend Jimmy Olsen, Clark Kent and Perry White that he witnessed the blaze being started. One of the boys was a tough kid named Muggs, who quit school and hangs around the pool hall. When Danny went to ring the bell that calls the fire department, Muggs saw him under a street lamp. It is for this reason that young Danny fears for his life. This leads to the discovery of a plot by a bigoted group that plan to attack the Metropolis Unity House, a community center and playground where children of every race, ethnic background and spiritual belief can play and interact in order to learn that all people are the same.

    Clan of the Fiery Cross: An argument between two members of the Unity House baseball team Tommy Lee and Chuck Riggs leads to a life and death situation as the Lee family who are Asian Americans are threatened by a group known as the Clan of the Fiery Cross. Basically, Superman vs the KKK, the story that inspired the graphic novel, Superman Smashes The Klan.

    Superman Vs The Knights of White Carnation: A secret organization of high class citizens of Metropolis led by Vincent Kirby know as the Knights of the White Carnation. Each member has a white carnation in their jacket lapels as they look at an article in the Daily Planet. The Metropolis High School Varsity Basketball Team is about to go to the state championship. According to Kirby, four of the five players are "Un-American foreigners," and he wants to rid the country of this element.

    The Skin Game: Two African American members of the Unity House track team, Howard Jones and Bobby Lee are threatened by Ralphie Mason, a bigoted member of the Grove Street Playground Track Team in an attempt to make sure they don't run.

    Batman's Great Mystery: In this crossover episode, Superman in the guise of Clark Kent is contacted by Dick Grayson who is Robin the Boy Wonder, informing that his mentor Bruce Wayne the guise of the caped crusader Batman has gone missing. When Batman finally appears, he's been acting strangely out of character promoting anti-Europe
    Last edited by BBally; 12-29-2020 at 12:19 PM.
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  15. #300
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    So I finally got around to finishing this! I read the first issue when it came out all the way back in late 2019 (which was a lifetime ago, all things considered), but for some reason, I never ended up reading the second and third issues at the time. I rectified that today and boy, was I missing out on something special!

    SPOILERS will follow

    This is definitely one of the best Superman stories ever in any medium Its insanely high praise and I don't say it lightly. This story is pure GOLD (fitting considering its Golden Age setting ) in every way you can think of - the art, the plotting (about 50% of which is due to the radio show writers of course), the exploration of prejudice in all its forms and the immigrant experience and identity crisis from multiple perspectives...and more.

    I love how it deals with prejudice and racism at multiple levels - starting from the ''people should be free to live among their own kind'' sort of thinking that seems harmless enough at first glance, to the 'positive stereotypes' about certain races, to fear-based prejudice, to hardcore white supremacy, to systematic racism engineered for political/financial gain...the list goes on. It was interesting that they showed that even Dr. Lee, an upright family man and scientist who is himself a target of racial prejudice, is not free from prejudices of his own against black people and against Superman at first.

    What surprised me (and impressed me with Gene Luen Yang even more) is how the Klan story, which could easily have ended up making this whole enterprise a Very Special Episode (which is no wrong thing of course!) is just one of the interrelated strands that Yang has woven together to craft this perfect Superman tale. We also have what is essentially a Superman origin story and exploration of his character, combined with a superficially conventional sci-fi story of villains using kryptonite to make anti-Superman weapons, and these elements are seamlessly woven with the Klan story. I loved the parallel between the Lee family's experiences and Clark's own experiences...never before has the 'immigrant' nature of Superman been brought out so beautifully. And kryptonite here becomes more than a plot device or a weapon - it is both a symbol of hate against an alien by those seeking to protect the status quo, and a reminder to Clark of the alien heritage that he's suppressed and needs to embrace.

    The notion that Clark's Golden Age power levels were his self-imposed attempt to be perceived as a Super-man (who is 'just' stronger and faster than a normal human being) rather than as an alien or other is just...mindblowing both in its simplicity and poignancy. And by embracing his alien heritage as Kal-El of Krypton, Superman is able to unlock his powers, be the best version of himself, and thus help his adopted people and world better. There's a message in there of course about immigrants being able to perhaps contribute to their adopted homelands better if they embrace and share their culture rather than try to hide or deny it, and its also a great way to depict the evolution from the Golden Age Superman to the Silver Age Superman! Only Morrison has really attempted to tell a story about that transition before, and I dare say Yang might have surpassed him in that endeavor.

    Oh, and the scene where Clark visits Ma and Pa Kent and asks them if, no matter how much he explores his alien heritage, they'll still be a family was truly heartbreaking and almost got me to tear up! So profound was the sense of otherness Clark has carried with him all his life that for a second, he actually doubted the unconditional love and support of his adoptive parents In a story where, kryptonite notwithstanding, Superman is pretty invincible against every threat in a physical sense, his emotional vulnerability was fascinating and heartwrenching to explore.

    So yeah, to sum up, this story is absolute GOLD. I think an animated adaptation of this is something the world and pop-culture needs. And while I'm not sure if this story lends itself to a big-budget live-action adaptation on the silver screen, I do think this version of Superman's origin story and the character exploration make it essential reading for anyone looking to reinvent the big-screen Clark Kent again and humanize Superman in a way that makes him vulnerable but simultaneously stronger than ever.

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