Why MCU Spider-Man characters are so inaccurate

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Am I the only one who wants Kraven to be russian? I know it's cool and all to tie him with Wakanda, but... come on. Especially if Dmitry is russian, as we've all seen in Far From Home (he was in trailers, so it's not a spoiler).
Stefan Kapičić would be the BEST to play the part, imo.

The whole Great White Hunter thing is a loaded archetype to start with. Lee and Ditko offset that by making Kraven a Russian since usually Great White Hunters tend to be Brits, and Kraven being a Russian made him a Cold War heel since the danger with any Great White Hunter character is that the audience might think he's a badass. Like if The Punisher was Russian, I don't think people would think he was such a badass.

I personally don't think Kraven should be Wakandan either but it's worth exploring and there's been a long-standing interest to tie Kraven into Wakanda's corner. Christopher Priest wanted to figure Kraven in his Black Panther run but Kraven was dead at the time so he had to use a legacy in his story giving him a smaller role. Ryan Coogler wanted Kraven in the first movie.

[Mister Mets]

The whole Great White Hunter thing is a loaded archetype to start with. Lee and Ditko offset that by making Kraven a Russian since usually Great White Hunters tend to be Brits, and Kraven being a Russian made him a Cold War heel since the danger with any Great White Hunter character is that the audience might think he's a badass. Like if The Punisher was Russian, I don't think people would think he was such a badass.

I personally don't think Kraven should be Wakandan either but it's worth exploring and there's been a long-standing interest to tie Kraven into Wakanda's corner. Christopher Priest wanted to figure Kraven in his Black Panther run but Kraven was dead at the time so he had to use a legacy in his story giving him a smaller role. Ryan Coogler wanted Kraven in the first movie.

Did Lee and Ditko make him Russian? DeMatteis explored that angle heavily, but it was an offhand reference in the Official Marvel Index.

http://www.jmdematteis.com/2017/06/t...-hunt2017.html

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Did Lee and Ditko make him Russian? DeMatteis explored that angle heavily, but it was an offhand reference in the Official Marvel Index.

http://www.jmdematteis.com/2017/06/t...-hunt2017.html

His name Sergei Kravinoff and his family ties to the Chameleon was established in the Lee-Ditko era. So yeah Kraven was always Russian.

JMD of course explored that more, but then he explored Kraven more than anyone. It's interesting that JMD had Dostoevsky in his mind, because Chameleon's name Dimitri Smerdiakov combines two of the characters from Brothers Karamazov which suggests that Lee/Ditko also had Dostoevsky somewhere in the back when dealing with Chameleon and Kraven.

The problem in any case with Kraven in a Spider-Man movie is that the story everyone wants KLH isn't exactly a "first Kraven story". The story also depends at the very least on an older Spider-Man who is capable and competent. For the story to work, you need Kraven's perspective of Spider-Man as this great totemic figure and that needs some pre-established backstory and history for Spider-Man to be that. You need Spider-Man to constantly defeat Kraven in previous encounters and for his recent stories to include some big triumphs...like when KLH came out, it was just a few years after Spider-Man beat up Juggernaut, Firelord and tore the arms out of Dr. Octopus and sent him to a ward with severe arachnophobia. Kraven's Last Hunt started with Spider-Man at the most badass he had been until that point. By contrast, MCU Spider-Man is a dysfunctional incompetent. You can't sell MCU Spider-Man be a totemic hero and so on isn't going to work aside from some jokey parody and so on.

You can at best adapt KLH via HUNTED because Hunted is closer to MCU's level than JMD is, i.e. Hunted is a story that can work with both a young and inexperienced Spider-Man or an older Spider-Man. Hunted works as both an introduction to Kraven and to those who have some familiarity to that. Hunted is also a sprawling work that allows a lot of supporting characters and bringing in ties and cameos.

The main thing I want in the next movie is Spider-Man Vs. Juggernaut. I mean what the hell is the point of having Spider-Man in a shared universe if you can't give us that. Have Juggernaut formed when Kraven empowers him with the Crystal Gem of Cyttorak in the next movie and have that be a 20 minute long fight and so on. Preferably get someone other than Jon Watts to direct.

[Von]

The YouTube channel seems more legit than others. This is more than your usual clickbait fan stuff. Not everyone on YouTube is a hack but not being a hack doesn't mean you are by default right, either.

The formula is:

V(YT) * L = V(FO) * L

where ...

V = Validity
L = Legitimacy
YT = YouTube
FO = Forum

In other words...

The validity of any opinion packaged and produced as a YouTube video is precisely equivalent to that same opinion written out and posted on a text-based forum by that same individual or organization

[Mister Mets]

His name Sergei Kravinoff and his family ties to the Chameleon was established in the Lee-Ditko era. So yeah Kraven was always Russian.

JMD of course explored that more, but then he explored Kraven more than anyone. It's interesting that JMD had Dostoevsky in his mind, because Chameleon's name Dimitri Smerdiakov combines two of the characters from Brothers Karamazov which suggests that Lee/Ditko also had Dostoevsky somewhere in the back when dealing with Chameleon and Kraven.

The problem in any case with Kraven in a Spider-Man movie is that the story everyone wants KLH isn't exactly a "first Kraven story". The story also depends at the very least on an older Spider-Man who is capable and competent. For the story to work, you need Kraven's perspective of Spider-Man as this great totemic figure and that needs some pre-established backstory and history for Spider-Man to be that. You need Spider-Man to constantly defeat Kraven in previous encounters and for his recent stories to include some big triumphs...like when KLH came out, it was just a few years after Spider-Man beat up Juggernaut, Firelord and tore the arms out of Dr. Octopus and sent him to a ward with severe arachnophobia. Kraven's Last Hunt started with Spider-Man at the most badass he had been until that point. By contrast, MCU Spider-Man is a dysfunctional incompetent. You can't sell MCU Spider-Man be a totemic hero and so on isn't going to work aside from some jokey parody and so on.

You can at best adapt KLH via HUNTED because Hunted is closer to MCU's level than JMD is, i.e. Hunted is a story that can work with both a young and inexperienced Spider-Man or an older Spider-Man. Hunted works as both an introduction to Kraven and to those who have some familiarity to that. Hunted is also a sprawling work that allows a lot of supporting characters and bringing in ties and cameos.

The main thing I want in the next movie is Spider-Man Vs. Juggernaut. I mean what the hell is the point of having Spider-Man in a shared universe if you can't give us that. Have Juggernaut formed when Kraven empowers him with the Crystal Gem of Cyttorak in the next movie and have that be a 20 minute long fight and so on. Preferably get someone other than Jon Watts to direct.

In Amazing Spider-Man #1, Chameleon was stealing defense plans to sell to the Iron Curtain. It wasn't clear he came from there.

In Amazing Spider-Man #15, Kraven was referred to as Kraven the Hunter, or Mr. Kraven.

[Redem]

Rumor is that Kraven will be the villain for the third MCU Spidey movie and he will be from an exiled Wakandan tribe


I love the idea personally. Sounds inspired to me.

Will probably ammount to nothing, but I am all for it if it's true.

[boots]

The formula is:

V(YT) * L = V(FO) * L

where ...

V = Validity
L = Legitimacy
YT = YouTube
FO = Forum

In other words...

The validity of any opinion packaged and produced as a YouTube video is precisely equivalent to that same opinion written out and posted on a text-based forum by that same individual or organization

hack on street, hack in the sheets

[NC_Yankee]

Mets: Watch the movie, The Most Dangerous Game with Fay Wray and Joel McCrea and you will see exactly where the inspiration for Kraven comes from. It is about crazy Russian hunter Zaroff versus American hunter Rainsford ( McCrea). There is no doubt that Ditko and ( or) Lee was familiar with the movie.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Mets: Watch the movie, The Most Dangerous Game with Fay Wray and Joel McCrea and you will see exactly where the inspiration for Kraven comes from. It is about crazy Russian hunter Zaroff versus American hunter Rainsford ( McCrea). There is no doubt that Ditko and ( or) Lee was familiar with the movie.

Ooh...good catch. Yeah that's definitely the inspiration for Kraven the Hunter.

[Beaddle]

MCU Spiderman is too constrained. His character is written to fit into a heavily established process factory movie franchise. He gets a chance to be just that in the MCU than the Spiderman you know from comics. His world looks a lot smaller in the MCU compared to the comics.

What marvel does in the comics was to usually create a rich individual world for every series. MCU is not creating the same individual rich world for the same series, making most of their film series like Spiderman feel condensed and his story constrained.

[NC_Yankee]

Ooh...good catch. Yeah that's definitely the inspiration for Kraven the Hunter.

Thank you Revolutionary Jack: Besides Kraven there is one other intetesting thing about Most Dangerous Game. It was filmed on the same set as the original.King Kong
In fact, while Kong was filmed in the day, Most Dangerous Game was filmed at night, and Fay Wray and Robert Armstrong ( who played her brother in Most Dangerous Game) did double duty starring in both films.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Thank you Revolutionary Jack: Besides Kraven there is one other intetesting thing about Most Dangerous Game. It was filmed on the same set as the original.King Kong

Right. I have only seen Most Dangerous Game once, and I saw it in a period where I binged a lot of classic films one after the other so it didn't stick out much then. I saw it in the period I saw King Kong, Isle of Lost Souls, Freaks, Frankenstein, Bride of Frankenstein, The Black Cat, and it didn't stick out much.

But in general, 30s and 40s films greatly inspired a slew of comic characters.

Norman Osborn is basically Joseph Cotten from Shadow of the Doubt.