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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Default Hero relationships with other people's sidekicks - what should they be?

    I'm not so much asking what they are, or have been, but what you think they should have been (using original version, retcons, retcons of retcons, general personality, whatever). Mostly during the sidekick era, but after they are grown is okay, too. But definitely looking at cross-generational relationships.

    Started when I was reading this thread from last year and someone mentioned Hal having better relationships with some of the sidekicks than their mentors. That got me to thinking about Clark and Dick. I do think it gets played up too much by the fanndom (fanfic) sometimes, but yes, they were friends when he was a child, and we've seen them friends as adults. But in the early post-COIE-era, the relationship with Superman and Batman got a lot more distant. So Jason and Tim (who worked more independently anyway) never seemed to have the same degree of contact/closeness with him. Of course, Jason's shorter tenure as Robin and the change from multiple-stories-per-issue to multiple-issues-per-story over time contribute, too. But if you think Clark and Bruce should have been close all along, do you think Tim and Jason should be closer to Superman? Or if you like the distance and distrust, do you think Dick should have no particular relationship with him?

    Dick's the only sidekick I can recall that interacted on-panel with any other adult characters much back when he was still a kid (well, Damian now, since he's buddies with Jon? or YJ with Red Tornado?). But are there any you think should have interacted off-panel? Or you would have do so in your headcanon?

    Roy ended up with close relationships with Dinah and Hal, though of course, he was already an adult when they originally came on the scene. I like the relationships, though I wish Roy hadn't disappeared from Ollie's thoughts when the bronze age rolled around. And, even with Hal and Dinah, excepting the addiction issue (and stand-alone after-school special that other writers made work later), I don't really remember any relationship between Roy and the two being a thing until post-COIE.

  2. #2
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Uncle nephew of the family or work variety depending on closeness

    was Clark not close to Tim in the 90s?

  3. #3
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    I seem to remember both Clark and Bruce coming to Donna Troy's wedding.

    Wildcat seemed to have a nice relationship with Al Rothstein (Atom Smasher), who was the godson of original Atom Al Pratt.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    I seem to remember both Clark and Bruce coming to Donna Troy's wedding.

    Wildcat seemed to have a nice relationship with Al Rothstein (Atom Smasher), who was the godson of original Atom Al Pratt.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't Damage Atom Al Pratt's son? Liberty Belle was pretty close with him.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Uncle nephew of the family or work variety depending on closeness

    was Clark not close to Tim in the 90s?
    Not in the Robin comics. Can't speak to the Batman or Superman ones, as I read fewer of those. I think somewhere in Superman's funeral story, Dick references knowing him since he was a kid and Tim thinks that he liked Superman, too, but he was too scared of looking like an idiot to say anything.

    I seem to remember both Clark and Bruce coming to Donna Troy's wedding.
    I remembered Bruce there, but had forgotten Clark.

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Dick and Clark are old friends at the very least (Dick did get Nightwing from Clark afterall).

    The Trinity families seem to get along fairly well in general it seems.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Uncle nephew of the family or work variety depending on closeness

    was Clark not close to Tim in the 90s?
    Tim admired Clark as many of the other heroes did and they have a team up in the 90s, but i wouldn't call then close.
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  8. #8
    BANNED Starter Set's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Dick's the only sidekick I can recall that interacted on-panel with any other adult characters much back when he was still a kid
    Wally also.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    Wally also.
    I remember him with Elongated Man, but I admit, that's about it. Except a couple times the TT got in trouble with the JL. What are some others he much interacted with in the bronze/silver era? Or are we talking things established later? I thought I'd read all the silver age Wally, but that certainly doesn't mean I didn't forget anything. As an adult, of course, he had more than anyone, probably.

    I actually recall even less for Garth and Donna in the silver age, but didn't read the much of the later TT in the 1970s.

    I have a more difficult time keeping track of the later generations. Jason did some team ups with the Titans (not quite cross generation, but still thought I'd mention). I remember Tim working with some heroes, but there are so many books...I mostly remember Dick's age or younger (Connor Hawke, Argent, etc.), though there was Huntress (who was probably also about Dick's age?). Kon worked with Kyle and the Ray, but they're youngish, if not his age, too. I have trouble even talking about Damian with Gar, Raven, and Kory, who should be a different generation (10+ years older than him) but aren't.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-11-2019 at 11:35 AM.

  10. #10
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Dick and Clark are old friends at the very least (Dick did get Nightwing from Clark afterall).

    The Trinity families seem to get along fairly well in general it seems.
    Cassie dated both Superboy and Robin. Think about that one .

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I remember him with Elongated Man, but I admit, that's about it. Except a couple times the TT got in trouble with the JL. What are some others he much interacted with in the bronze/silver era? Or are we talking things established later? I thought I'd read all the silver age Wally, but that certainly doesn't mean I didn't forget anything. As an adult, of course, he had more than anyone, probably.

    I actually recall even less for Garth and Donna in the silver age, but didn't read the much of the later TT in the 1970s.

    I have a more difficult time keeping track of the later generations. Jason did some team ups with the Titans (not quite cross generation, but still thought I'd mention). I remember Tim working with some heroes, but there are so many books...I mostly remember Dick's age or younger (Connor Hawke, Argent, etc.), though there was Huntress (who was probably also about Dick's age?). Kon worked with Kyle and the Ray, but they're youngish, if not his age, too. I have trouble even talking about Damian with Gar, Raven, and Kory, who should be a different generation (10+ years older than him) but aren't.
    Wally interacted with Hal a decent bit in those typical Flash/GL teamups. Also, post crisis, there was Brave and The Bold which had an entire issue dedicated to that teamup where Wally was "Kid Lantern" temporarily.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Wally interacted with Hal a decent bit in those typical Flash/GL teamups. Also, post crisis, there was Brave and The Bold which had an entire issue dedicated to that teamup where Wally was "Kid Lantern" temporarily.
    I did not remember that, sorry. I do recall a couple of teamups for the Flash and GL, but they were earlier. And, of course, Wally used worked separately from Barry, not with him. Will have to dig through to find those stories. I typically read Flash title rather than BandtheB, but have read a smattering of those.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Wally interacted with Hal a decent bit in those typical Flash/GL teamups. Also, post crisis, there was Brave and The Bold which had an entire issue dedicated to that teamup where Wally was "Kid Lantern" temporarily.
    And Wally had constant interactions with Clark, Bruce, Diana, Arthur, and J'onn during his JLA period written by Morrison.

  14. #14
    Genesis of A Nemesis KOSLOX's Avatar
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    I like the relationship between Confessor and Alter Boy in Astro City.

    They have a Mentor/Mentee relationship where Confessor doesn't see Alter Boy as a son or have a paternalistic view of him. He sees him as a capable replacement and trains him, as a partner, in that manner.

    Edit: I miss read the thread title, and didn't read the OP. Stupid mistakes on my part.

    I think it really depends on the mentor heroes relationship to the other heroes. I can see a lot of conflict arise if say Flash thinks Green Arrow is a bad role model.

    In this case Flash and Arsenal or Red Arrow may have a rocky relationship because he tries to undermine Ollie.
    Last edited by KOSLOX; 07-11-2019 at 12:44 PM.
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  15. #15
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    I always liked the relationship between Superman and Robin the Boy Wonder, as seen in WORLD'S FINEST COMICS. In fact, one of the earliest stories I remember reading--at the home of another family we were friends with--was from one of the 80 Page Giants and I remember as a kid being so happy to see Superman hanging out with Robin and being like an uncle to him. It made sense to me, because Robin and Superman were both bright looking characters, in contrast to Batman. And in some ways, it would have been more fitting for the Boy Wonder to be Superman's sidekick. Years later, that Dick would then choose to name himself Nightwing, out of respect for his friend Superman, felt right. Didn't feel right when that history was erased post-Crisis and Dick called himself Nightwing for no reason at all.

    Robin and Jimmy Olsen had their own team-ups for awhile and one time Jimmy posed as Robin/Dick Grayson and hung out with Batman--all in hopes of proving himself to the Mystery Analysts of Gotham City. One member of which was Kaye Daye who later turned out to be Steve Lombard's aunt.

    Batgirl isn't technically a sidekick, but she would sometimes rub elbows with Superman--but the relationship that was even more fun was the one between Barbara and Clark Kent.

    In the original story where Roy was on drugs, it was Dinah (aka Black Canary) who was there for him, not Oliver.

    The tangled history of Sylvester Pemberton (Star-Spangled Kid) and Pat Dugan (Stripesy) had Syl being somewhat mentored by Ted Grant (Starman) and getting his gravity rod/cosmic rod, while Pat as Courtney's step-dad mentored her in Wally's hometown of Blue Valley and she was also befriended by Jack Knight (Starman) who gave her his cosmic staff.

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