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  1. #106
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    it’s a good point; we’re only getting glimpses at each decade. the bits with the most drama (kinda like marber’s “closer”).

    and really, the longer we live, the more likely any of us will encounter tragedies

    question: if ben operated as spidey for the past decade or so...is it explained how he stayed out of the superhero civil war? did tony not come for him in that time?
    He was unregistered and had a secret identity which only came out when he was killed. Tony couldn't come for him as he wouldn't have known where to look for him.
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  2. #107
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Man, i think that conversation and encounter between Peter and Tony was better than the entire original Civil War event. Just a very poignant issue, showing how power politics are a distraction from what really matters. The juxtaposition between the fight in New York and at Peter's home was just gut-wrenching.
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  3. #108
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    Full SPOILERS ahead

    A great issue! Not the best in this series so far, but pretty good.

    Boy, they really are determined to make Tony Stark a villain here! And coming barely a fortnight after a movie about a teenage Peter Parker mourning Tony Stark and wanting to follow in his footsteps! The confrontation between the aged Peter and Tony was especially delicious when you contrast it with their MCU relationship. More so than the fight scene, it was their argument, and Peter's final "Shut up!" to Tony that really took the cake.

    I also loved seeing Peter's reunion wth Cap. It tied back nicely to their meeting in the first issue, which set both of them down paths somewhat different from those that their 616 counterparts followed. Cap's lecture about responsibility led to Peter turning Norman Osborn in, while his reflections about his own responsibility led him to Vietnam and turning rogue against the US Government.

    I'm a little disappointed that they didn't turn Benjy into a version of Ultimate Peter Parker. I was pretty sure he'd meet his end eventually, but I didn't expect it to be quiet so soon! But they do seem to be setting Claire up to be some version of Spider-Girl or Spider-Woman.

    Another nitpick I had was the costume Peter wore as Spider-Man. It looked like a weird mashup between Miles Morales suit and the Superior Spider-Man suit. If it were a little better designed, it might have been more apt for the 2010's issue. It kinda felt out of place in this era. I'd have actually preferred Peter wearing the Scarlet Spider suit that Ben gave him last issue...we saw him wearing the mask in the 9/11 flashback. The mask at least resembled the original Ultimate Spider-Man suit, and would have fit in well with the era.

  4. #109
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    Tony Stark was the bad guy in CIVIL WAR even if that was a result of incompetence on Mark Millar's part. Him being portrayed as a heel, albeit he's more sympathetic in LF #5 than before, is Zdarsky being more aware of the story then Millar was.

    And certainly if you read the Civil War tie-ins that JMS wrote, it was pro-Cap and anti-Tony. Heck Cap's great "You move" speech was by JMS in an ASM comic.

    I wonder if Zdarsky will make Stark President in the next issue and have him be the Trump analogue for 2019. You know rich guy, five letter surname, lives in a tower with his name on it.

  5. #110
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    Well, I have to say, this issue proves once and for all that Tony Stark is a rotten son of a (*CENSORED*)!! Quite satisfying however to see how Spider-Man neutralizes him and his team quite easily thanks to Stark's ego, always needing to be the one moving the strings. I'm quite sure than, now that Stark's team realized he had a fail-safe in their armors to neutralize them, they will surely kick his butt right before joining Cap's side.

    Well, focusing on the issue here:
    + Nice touch from the writers to make a reference to 9/11. During this time, Peter was hiding along his family, so perfect excuse for him not being in NY during the attacks. And yet, he did a little contribuition to save people trapped under the wreckage.
    + Ezekiel Sims was mentioned by Peter, as the one who warned him about Morlun. If he's still alive here, where in blazes he is? This plot should be solved for the next issue.
    + I have to say, I'm disappointed how "easily" they killed Morlun. I mean, in previous adventures, you needed radiation; but here, just like Dracula, just a steak through the heart? Quite disappointing, honestly.
    + Betty Brant took Jameson's role in the DB? I like the sound of that!!
    + Not going to lie, it broke my heart to see Peter's son dying. Peter will surely go crazy when he knows about what happened to Benjy, and I doubt poor MJ will survive the pity here. However, I believe this could be NOT the end of Benjy. Sounds weird, but this death brought to my mind two events: Aunt May's death during the Civil War, and Peter's death during the Other. I believe this will bring us a hope for Benjy's salvation.

    Now, let's talk about what it could happen for the next and final issue of this collection.
    + First of all, I believe elements from ALL the previous issues will have a role in the final issue. Plus, a few unexpected surprises.
    + The Other: This could be the key to bring Benjy back. Just like his father in Earth-616, Benjy could be revived by the Other. Sadly, this could also bring us Ms Arrow as the price for it.
    + The Grim Hunt: I believe something related to this arc will be used for the Kraven/Venom issue.
    + Dead No More: I believe this could be used to bring Ben Reilly back, alongside other characters who could get an important role. For example, bring back Flash Thompson and he could become Agent Venom somehow. Or bring back Gwen Stacy and she could turn into a local version of Spider-Gwen. Crazy thought!: If they bring back Otto to become the Superior Spider-Man, we could also use this to give fresh new bodies to Peter and MJ, so that explain how in Earth-616 they are still around here. Not only that, but bring back too the whole gang: Aunt May, Jameson... etc.
    + Superior Iron Man: I don't think the events of Axis happened here, but I would say this is the direction than Tony Stark is taking; especially if we consider that he was one of the only three individuals who stayed "inverted" after Axis. It would be good to take him down with this.
    + Spider-Island: If Peter Parker is retiring, which I highly doubt, this arc could be used to represent his legacy to the world, giving us all the new Spider-Heroes coming from him. This could give us Anya Corazon, Miles Morales and several others.
    + Spider-Verse: A hint to this adventure could be in the last page, when the Web Warriors appear to recruit the new spiders to finally defeat Morlun and the other inheritors.

    Well, what do you think?

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    He was unregistered and had a secret identity which only came out when he was killed. Tony couldn't come for him as he wouldn't have known where to look for him.
    so, if thats the case tony’s registration thing is no big deal. any hero who doesn’t want to register and has a secret identity can just operate as usual as the whole effort is ineffective unless he has your address
    troo fan or death

  7. #112
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Well, I have to say, this issue proves once and for all that Tony Stark is a rotten son of a (*CENSORED*)!! Quite satisfying however to see how Spider-Man neutralizes him and his team quite easily thanks to Stark's ego, always needing to be the one moving the strings. I'm quite sure than, now that Stark's team realized he had a fail-safe in their armors to neutralize them, they will surely kick his butt right before joining Cap's side.

    Well, focusing on the issue here:
    + Nice touch from the writers to make a reference to 9/11. During this time, Peter was hiding along his family, so perfect excuse for him not being in NY during the attacks. And yet, he did a little contribuition to save people trapped under the wreckage.
    + Ezekiel Sims was mentioned by Peter, as the one who warned him about Morlun. If he's still alive here, where in blazes he is? This plot should be solved for the next issue.
    + I have to say, I'm disappointed how "easily" they killed Morlun. I mean, in previous adventures, you needed radiation; but here, just like Dracula, just a steak through the heart? Quite disappointing, honestly.
    + Betty Brant took Jameson's role in the DB? I like the sound of that!!
    + Not going to lie, it broke my heart to see Peter's son dying. Peter will surely go crazy when he knows about what happened to Benjy, and I doubt poor MJ will survive the pity here. However, I believe this could be NOT the end of Benjy. Sounds weird, but this death brought to my mind two events: Aunt May's death during the Civil War, and Peter's death during the Other. I believe this will bring us a hope for Benjy's salvation.

    Now, let's talk about what it could happen for the next and final issue of this collection.
    + First of all, I believe elements from ALL the previous issues will have a role in the final issue. Plus, a few unexpected surprises.
    + The Other: This could be the key to bring Benjy back. Just like his father in Earth-616, Benjy could be revived by the Other. Sadly, this could also bring us Ms Arrow as the price for it.
    + The Grim Hunt: I believe something related to this arc will be used for the Kraven/Venom issue.
    + Dead No More: I believe this could be used to bring Ben Reilly back, alongside other characters who could get an important role. For example, bring back Flash Thompson and he could become Agent Venom somehow. Or bring back Gwen Stacy and she could turn into a local version of Spider-Gwen. Crazy thought!: If they bring back Otto to become the Superior Spider-Man, we could also use this to give fresh new bodies to Peter and MJ, so that explain how in Earth-616 they are still around here. Not only that, but bring back too the whole gang: Aunt May, Jameson... etc.
    + Superior Iron Man: I don't think the events of Axis happened here, but I would say this is the direction than Tony Stark is taking; especially if we consider that he was one of the only three individuals who stayed "inverted" after Axis. It would be good to take him down with this.
    + Spider-Island: If Peter Parker is retiring, which I highly doubt, this arc could be used to represent his legacy to the world, giving us all the new Spider-Heroes coming from him. This could give us Anya Corazon, Miles Morales and several others.
    + Spider-Verse: A hint to this adventure could be in the last page, when the Web Warriors appear to recruit the new spiders to finally defeat Morlun and the other inheritors.

    Well, what do you think?

    i don’t get the stark is the bad guy thing everyone here seems to feel. he’s an antagonist but he’s not twirling his moustache

    as for resurrection; in this universe so far dead seems to mean dead
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  8. #113
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Yah I am pretty sure we won't see any resurrections. The Other is an interesting thought, but if the Other (or Sins Past for that matter) were going to play out here in some manner, we would have seen it in this issue. Thank goodness Chip didn't go there, I say!

    As to what might be next - the thing about the 2010s is that most of it is a product of OMD/BND, which are both irrelevant in this universe. Spider-Island, Superior Spider-Man, the other reboot. The whole decade until Spencer felt a little like treading water and re-treading the past, on purpose. So I don't know. Seems most likely that Chip is going to fly solo, introduce Miles and other legacy heroes with an ending on an optimistic eye to the future.

    How I would do it is to have Peter's death introduce Miles. Have him be the Uncle Ben for Miles, just as Bendis brilliantly did.
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  9. #114
    Extraordinary Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    i don’t get the stark is the bad guy thing everyone here seems to feel. he’s an antagonist but he’s not twirling his moustache

    as for resurrection; in this universe so far dead seems to mean dead
    Yeah Stark isnt a bad guy he just a good antagonist. Like Spider-Man said to Cap in Captain America:Civil War the Movie. "You think you're Right. And that makes you dangerous" Tony believes he is right and until he is proven wrong he is going to continue too. But it is funny how in the comics Spider-Man and Iron Man have a horrible relationship but in the Mcu they are practically family guess that shows how the Mcu likes doing unexpected things
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

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  10. #115
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    Yeah Stark isnt a bad guy he just a good antagonist. Like Spider-Man said to Cap in Captain America:Civil War the Movie. "You think you're Right. And that makes you dangerous" Tony believes he is right and until he is proven wrong he is going to continue too. But it is funny how in the comics Spider-Man and Iron Man have a horrible relationship but in the Mcu they are practically family guess that shows how the Mcu likes doing unexpected things
    yeah i think it’s better that we don’t always see the same old patterns play out

    the age gap for MCU peter and tony is much greater, with tony’s influence in peter’s life being from peter’s developing years. LS peter and tony are on much more equal footing
    troo fan or death

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    i don’t get the stark is the bad guy thing everyone here seems to feel. he’s an antagonist but he’s not twirling his moustache

    as for resurrection; in this universe so far dead seems to mean dead
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Taylor View Post
    Yah I am pretty sure we won't see any resurrections. The Other is an interesting thought, but if the Other (or Sins Past for that matter) were going to play out here in some manner, we would have seen it in this issue. Thank goodness Chip didn't go there, I say!

    As to what might be next - the thing about the 2010s is that most of it is a product of OMD/BND, which are both irrelevant in this universe. Spider-Island, Superior Spider-Man, the other reboot. The whole decade until Spencer felt a little like treading water and re-treading the past, on purpose. So I don't know. Seems most likely that Chip is going to fly solo, introduce Miles and other legacy heroes with an ending on an optimistic eye to the future.

    How I would do it is to have Peter's death introduce Miles. Have him be the Uncle Ben for Miles, just as Bendis brilliantly did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jman27 View Post
    Yeah Stark isnt a bad guy he just a good antagonist. Like Spider-Man said to Cap in Captain America:Civil War the Movie. "You think you're Right. And that makes you dangerous" Tony believes he is right and until he is proven wrong he is going to continue too. But it is funny how in the comics Spider-Man and Iron Man have a horrible relationship but in the Mcu they are practically family guess that shows how the Mcu likes doing unexpected things
    Guys, I get your points. Really, I do. But you have to accept things are really out of character around here. In this reality, Stark didn't stop making weapons, and he even made several superheroes to have a role on Viethnam's war. This caused the war to last even longer, and who knows how many people died on it. And you know Tony Stark's big fat ego. He will NEVER accept his wrong, because he thinks he's so smart, when he's actually a complete fool. It was because of his ego that we had two Civil Wars between superheroes. And in the previous issue, he dared to say the world would have been burnt without Tony Stark, even when his weapons have caused so much pain in the world. And why do you think I brought the whole Superior Iron Man to topic? He's the only one who remained inverted (alongside Havok and Sabretooth), and remained inverted until the very end of the Marvel's Universe, in Secret Wars. I don't know how he returned to normal when the Marvel Universe was revived, however. It can't be a coincidence! Stark even got profit from the 9/11, and that's really low. Makes me wonder if his weapons could have caused it in this reality, surely with more victims.

    And I also get your point that "in alternative realities, dead means dead". But is quite ironic that several "classic deaths" from the Marvel Universe were avoided here. I mean, Doc Ock got really old, when in the main reality, he died several times: At the hand of Kaine, because of years taking beatings from supperheroes like Spidey (which took him to the "Superior" stuff, and I think there were a couple more of deaths. In this reality, Gwen Stacy's death didn't end up with Norman impaled by his own glider, and then "resurrecting" because the healing factor from the Goblin's formula. And even if in this issue he died, Ben didn't die like in the comics, saving his brother. Also, now that I think of it, I wonder where the webs is Kaine. Anyway, about the Other, it took several days after Peter died; so I don't think it would be enough time to see any hint. (I'm grateful, however, for no Sins Past; although since we don't know what happened with Gwen Stacy's clon ein this reality, we could still have something similar).

    Anyway, and now, for the final issue, we arrive to the time where we had an arc where practically ALL those who died through Spidey's history (both good and bad guys) are back from the grave. Like I said, it CAN'T be a coincidence. Besides, even if all of us believe the arc will end up with Peter dying, I would say that's too easy. Even after all these decades, the one true Spider-Man is still swinging around. So find a way to keep him around for even more time sounds like the perfect ending. Because, you know what they say "classics never die".

    PD: Almost forgot, there's another potential factor around here. Instead of Civil War II, how about if the Civil War takes a longer time to last until recently? I wouldn't be surprised if Stark meved the strings for this.
    Last edited by Ursalink; 07-18-2019 at 03:11 PM.

  12. #117
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    I think the last issue will borrow from Spider-Man:Reign, simply because Zdarsky needs to get three birds in one stone...he needs to deal with Slott's run, a bit of Spencer's, and also resolve Peter's final years. Spider-Man:Reign is a story with an old Peter where a zombie Ock and Venom serve play major roles. Zombie Ock allows Zdarsky to work in Superior and Kravenom allows him to deal with Grim Hunt/Hunted and also the Venom in reign. And as LF#5 shows, Zdarsky isn't shy from borrowing from AU since Spider-Girl is an obvious influence in how he shows the Parker family in that issue.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I think the last issue will borrow from Spider-Man:Reign, simply because Zdarsky needs to get three birds in one stone...he needs to deal with Slott's run, a bit of Spencer's, and also resolve Peter's final years. Spider-Man:Reign is a story with an old Peter where a zombie Ock and Venom serve play major roles. Zombie Ock allows Zdarsky to work in Superior and Kravenom allows him to deal with Grim Hunt/Hunted and also the Venom in reign. And as LF#5 shows, Zdarsky isn't shy from borrowing from AU since Spider-Girl is an obvious influence in how he shows the Parker family in that issue.
    That would be extremely derivative as it’s too on the nose. He does a lot of homages to stories, but not identical story beats. I also don’t think Zdarsky will borrow from Reign as it’s nowadays mostly forgotten, and those that do remember it are quite negative about it.

  14. #119
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    That would be extremely derivative as it’s too on the nose. He does a lot of homages to stories, but not identical story beats. I also don’t think Zdarsky will borrow from Reign as it’s nowadays mostly forgotten, and those that do remember it are quite negative about it.
    also don’t see reign being used, but who knows?

    maybe peter still strikes a deal with mephisto but to bring benjy back instead...
    troo fan or death

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    That would be extremely derivative as it’s too on the nose. He does a lot of homages to stories, but not identical story beats. I also don’t think Zdarsky will borrow from Reign as it’s nowadays mostly forgotten, and those that do remember it are quite negative about it.
    People are negative about the Clone Saga too, which doesn't stop Zdarsky from making use of it for 2 of his issues, with Miles Warren being one of the major villains showcased in this series (alongside Goblin, Kraven, Octopus, Morlun). And you know Civil War isn't widely regarded as a great story here and I don't think Zdarsky is a fan either, since basically LF#5 amounts to "JMS rules, Millar drools" in terms of the reverence with which he treats Morlun and Cap (who were both done right by JMS) then Tony Stark (whose Eisenfuhrer shtick was regarded by Millar as the moral right).

    Spider-Man:Reign is about a very old, very disillusioned Peter who's lost all hope...that's most likely where Peter's going to be at when he gets back to home at the end of LF#5.

    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    maybe peter still strikes a deal with mephisto but to bring benjy back instead...
    Zdarsky more or less dealt with OMD in LF#3, showing Peter's pathetic dependency on Aunt May at the expense of his children, his oedipal fixation on his past at the expense of his present and his future.

    That's more or less LF Peter's constant recurring tragic flaw throughout the series. He's indecisive, passive-aggressive, short-sighted and more fixated and obsessed with fixing past errors than trying to avoid and solve present ones or thinking about future ones. That differentiates Peter from other heroes who are also flawed and narrow-minded...Tony Stark is obsessed with the future over the present, so anything he does in the present is justified because in his mind he's solved a future crisis and problem which obviously the people in the present are too stupid to understand and expect. So it's not like LF Peter has a clear path and clear way on how to act in this series because there's no one easy way to be good and decent...which again is pretty adult. Anytime he acts, he's driven into action by being convinced that he's somehow solving a past wrong or mistake. You see that consistently throughout the series, and especially here where the story makes it look initially like Peter's doing the right thing, and we as readers are made to think and believe it is because even Claire thinks so but it turns out to be a mistake, which is just...incredibly adult. Zdarsky's writing really is deft and nuanced.

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