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  1. #16
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    I liked that the few mentions there were of Hope or Scott (sadly not Cable) were very respectfull. Like they finally got some respect.
    My opinions are my own

  2. #17
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    I guess I just can't feel much sympathy for Nate. He notnonly leaves intimacy and love intact, but everyone keeps their reproductive organs, which means, well, a situation like Nezumi's. And then Nate just keeps hurting people by throwing them into awful prisons when they don't act like he thinks they should.

    Then you have his absolutely callous attitude towards Evan's death, his throwing people who would be considered his friends into prison, his creepy attitude towards Jean, etc.

    He's cruel.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I guess I just can't feel much sympathy for Nate. He notnonly leaves intimacy and love intact, but everyone keeps their reproductive organs, which means, well, a situation like Nezumi's. And then Nate just keeps hurting people by throwing them into awful prisons when they don't act like he thinks they should.

    Then you have his absolutely callous attitude towards Evan's death, his throwing people who would be considered his friends into prison, his creepy attitude towards Jean, etc.

    He's cruel.
    He's not cruel, he's sick.

    I've posted this before, but Nate comes from an incredibly damaged upbringing. Dani was the only normal relationship Nate has ever had. There was the Age of Apocalypse Theresa Cassidy, but that reality ended before anything could really happen and there, he aged into a teenager in a few years (months maybe). There was Threnody, but that relationship was messed up by her powers making her addicted to Nate and that strange pregnancy. Then there was Madelyne Pryor, whom he, as a teenager, recreated her seeking out his mother and she, an adult, pretty much raped him. This becomes even more messed up when you consider that Nate as a person had only been around for a few years at that point, even if he was biologically a teenager. Then she did it again when she became Queen Jean. So yeah, when his sexual history is that bad, I can kind of see where somebody with his powers is coming from when they wind up mentally ill because of a Celestial artifact beyond their comprehension.

    So yeah, I also feel really bad for Nathan. He's sick and instead of trying to help him, Jean, his own mother, tried to fight him instead. She only helped when it was too late and then he did all this.

    And yeah, his attitude to Jean is creepy. He got raped by her clone (who is still biologically his mother), and then that clone got possessed by an alternate version of Jean who then proceeded to rape Nate again and psionically influence him into killing innocents. And what does Jean do in this universe? She shacks up with the dude who tried to kill her granddaughter, who is essentially Nathan's daughter by the same logic that he is Jean's daughter. Sure, Bishop didn't try to kill Hope in this universe but still... by the preview, it's still the same Bishop.

    Yes, the world he created is dystopic with a smile but they should all be dead. Instead, the Life Seed is forcing Nathan to be alive and what does he do? He still tries to help the X-Men by showing them that they don't need to forever be sad, he's just too far gone mentally at this point.

    I mean, take that flashback he had with Dani. He and Dani love each other. Now, I don't know who Dani was saying was watching her and waiting but I speculated it was Legion. As in, every iteration of this world, before every mindwipe, Legion knows that Nate will always send Dani to him in the Danger Room prison because he loves her too much to let her threaten him showing the X-Men that they deserve happiness. But he's mentally destroyed and the strain of the Life Seed is probably compounding onto that, so he doesn't realize he deserves his own happiness and in it, comes the dystopic nature of the Age of X-Man. The test tube Cable who thought he could be a real boy turning everyone else into puppets because the one woman he loves he's being made to push away.
    Last edited by Drexelhand; 07-11-2019 at 05:26 PM.

  4. #19
    X-Cultist nx01a's Avatar
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    That Life Seed's origin needs explanation, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I guess I just can't feel much sympathy for Nate. He notnonly leaves intimacy and love intact, but everyone keeps their reproductive organs, which means, well, a situation like Nezumi's. And then Nate just keeps hurting people by throwing them into awful prisons when they don't act like he thinks they should.
    Then you have his absolutely callous attitude towards Evan's death, his throwing people who would be considered his friends into prison, his creepy attitude towards Jean, etc.
    He's cruel.
    Making people with biological drives then expecting them to act differently under penalty of punishment? Sounds like he's being exactly what he's playing at: being God.
    Quote Originally Posted by The General, JLA #38
    'Why?' Just to see the disappointment on your corn-fed, gee-whiz face, Superman. And because a great dark voice on the edge of nothing spoke to me and said you all had to die. There is no 'Why?'

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    That Life Seed's origin needs explanation, too.
    Making people with biological drives then expecting them to act differently under penalty of punishment? Sounds like he's being exactly what he's playing at: being God.
    Specifically a very American very judgmental God worshiped by a very VERY specific brand of Christian.

  6. #21
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    Yeah, I really need to know where he got a fucking Life Seed, especially since it was just sort of dropped in at the last minute.

    I guess my problem with Nate is that I don't have a personal relationship with the character the way you all do. By the time I got into comics, he was already regulated to obscurity. So even though I have back issues and wiki, I feel like I'm meeting this guy for the first time. I imagine I'm not alone.

    I get that Nate has had a hard time, a really hard time, but at the same time, he knows this isn't right. So, yeah, he's certainly sick, he's a wreck, but I can't absolve him completely...yet. Let's see how I feel after this.

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    He's not cruel, he's sick.

    I've posted this before, but Nate comes from an incredibly damaged upbringing. Dani was the only normal relationship Nate has ever had. There was the Age of Apocalypse Theresa Cassidy, but that reality ended before anything could really happen and there, he aged into a teenager in a few years (months maybe). There was Threnody, but that relationship was messed up by her powers making her addicted to Nate and that strange pregnancy. Then there was Madelyne Pryor, whom he, as a teenager, recreated her seeking out his mother and she, an adult, pretty much raped him. This becomes even more messed up when you consider that Nate as a person had only been around for a few years at that point, even if he was biologically a teenager. Then she did it again when she became Queen Jean. So yeah, when his sexual history is that bad, I can kind of see where somebody with his powers is coming from when they wind up mentally ill because of a Celestial artifact beyond their comprehension.

    So yeah, I also feel really bad for Nathan. He's sick and instead of trying to help him, Jean, his own mother, tried to fight him instead. She only helped when it was too late and then he did all this.

    And yeah, his attitude to Jean is creepy. He got raped by her clone (who is still biologically his mother), and then that clone got possessed by an alternate version of Jean who then proceeded to rape Nate again and psionically influence him into killing innocents. And what does Jean do in this universe? She shacks up with the dude who tried to kill her granddaughter, who is essentially Nathan's daughter by the same logic that he is Jean's daughter. Sure, Bishop didn't try to kill Hope in this universe but still... by the preview, it's still the same Bishop.

    Yes, the world he created is dystopic with a smile but they should all be dead. Instead, the Life Seed is forcing Nathan to be alive and what does he do? He still tries to help the X-Men by showing them that they don't need to forever be sad, he's just too far gone mentally at this point.

    I mean, take that flashback he had with Dani. He and Dani love each other. Now, I don't know who Dani was saying was watching her and waiting but I speculated it was Legion. As in, every iteration of this world, before every mindwipe, Legion knows that Nate will always send Dani to him in the Danger Room prison because he loves her too much to let her threaten him showing the X-Men that they deserve happiness. But he's mentally destroyed and the strain of the Life Seed is probably compounding onto that, so he doesn't realize he deserves his own happiness and in it, comes the dystopic nature of the Age of X-Man. The test tube Cable who thought he could be a real boy turning everyone else into puppets because the one woman he loves he's being made to push away.
    And how could Jean know that Bishop tried to kill Hope, if she doesn't have the memories? They all have different memories from 616. She doesn't even know she is his mother to help him
    This bishop-Jean romance is becoming slut shaming

  8. #23
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    He's not cruel, he's sick.

    I've posted this before, but Nate comes from an incredibly damaged upbringing. Dani was the only normal relationship Nate has ever had. There was the Age of Apocalypse Theresa Cassidy, but that reality ended before anything could really happen and there, he aged into a teenager in a few years (months maybe). There was Threnody, but that relationship was messed up by her powers making her addicted to Nate and that strange pregnancy. Then there was Madelyne Pryor, whom he, as a teenager, recreated her seeking out his mother and she, an adult, pretty much raped him. This becomes even more messed up when you consider that Nate as a person had only been around for a few years at that point, even if he was biologically a teenager. Then she did it again when she became Queen Jean. So yeah, when his sexual history is that bad, I can kind of see where somebody with his powers is coming from when they wind up mentally ill because of a Celestial artifact beyond their comprehension.

    So yeah, I also feel really bad for Nathan. He's sick and instead of trying to help him, Jean, his own mother, tried to fight him instead. She only helped when it was too late and then he did all this.

    And yeah, his attitude to Jean is creepy. He got raped by her clone (who is still biologically his mother), and then that clone got possessed by an alternate version of Jean who then proceeded to rape Nate again and psionically influence him into killing innocents. And what does Jean do in this universe? She shacks up with the dude who tried to kill her granddaughter, who is essentially Nathan's daughter by the same logic that he is Jean's daughter. Sure, Bishop didn't try to kill Hope in this universe but still... by the preview, it's still the same Bishop.

    Yes, the world he created is dystopic with a smile but they should all be dead. Instead, the Life Seed is forcing Nathan to be alive and what does he do? He still tries to help the X-Men by showing them that they don't need to forever be sad, he's just too far gone mentally at this point.

    I mean, take that flashback he had with Dani. He and Dani love each other. Now, I don't know who Dani was saying was watching her and waiting but I speculated it was Legion. As in, every iteration of this world, before every mindwipe, Legion knows that Nate will always send Dani to him in the Danger Room prison because he loves her too much to let her threaten him showing the X-Men that they deserve happiness. But he's mentally destroyed and the strain of the Life Seed is probably compounding onto that, so he doesn't realize he deserves his own happiness and in it, comes the dystopic nature of the Age of X-Man. The test tube Cable who thought he could be a real boy turning everyone else into puppets because the one woman he loves he's being made to push away.
    Pretty much this, but there's no reason he can't be both sick and cruel. His actions have definitely long since crossed the line into cruel, as described and outlined by Rosebunse, but he himself is a sick person/character who needed a lot of psychological help that he never got, and what's happening is the inevitable consequence of attaching nearly godlike power to an extremely disturbed and unwell psyche. What he's trying to do is force the world to make sense to him out of the sincere delusion that he's making it "better," but all he's doing is causing untold amounts of damage and suffering to the world and to those he claims to care for and want to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    That Life Seed's origin needs explanation, too.
    Making people with biological drives then expecting them to act differently under penalty of punishment? Sounds like he's being exactly what he's playing at: being God.
    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Specifically a very American very judgmental God worshiped by a very VERY specific brand of Christian.
    Point.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    And how could Jean know that Bishop tried to kill Hope, if she doesn't have the memories? They all have different memories from 616. She doesn't even know she is his mother to help him
    This bishop-Jean romance is becoming slut shaming
    That is a grave misuse of that term.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    That is a grave misuse of that term.
    I don't think so. People always finding problems because jean slept with someone

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I don't think so. People always finding problems because jean slept with someone
    Slut shaming is shaming a woman for having multiple partners. People are shaming Jean because her partner canonically tried to murder her son and granddaughter. It has nothing to do with anything sexual, and everything about Bishop (and his character assassination).

  12. #27
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    This whole AoXM idea seems now like it was Nate trying to prove he would never give in to his voyeurism fetish. Even if he could feel when every being of an universe got horny.
    Xavier Day must’ve been a field day for Nate.

  13. #28
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    I don't like Jean, but I feel like she gets a lot of hate for things that either happened when she was dead or without her consent. I mean, does she really see any of those people as her children? Should she? And Bishop wnrt crazy when she was dead. Plus, in this reality, he presumably never really did any of that stuff.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Slut shaming is shaming a woman for having multiple partners. People are shaming Jean because her partner canonically tried to murder her son and granddaughter. It has nothing to do with anything sexual, and everything about Bishop (and his character assassination).
    On point, it makes no sense. Makes Jean look like she doesn't care about her "family" if fugs with someone who tried to kill them for years and also shows that Bishop doesn't feel anything for what he did, I mean if he did he wouldn't try to fug the mommy/student of his victims.

    I woulnd't care at all if Bishop was with Psylocke or whatever. It is that it was Jean and that it was after his mess. Makes everybody involved look like an idiot.
    Jean could fug anybody else, that was never the problem.

  15. #30
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsger View Post
    On point, it makes no sense. Makes Jean look like she doesn't care about her "family" if fugs with someone who tried to kill them for years and also shows that Bishop doesn't feel anything for what he did, I mean if he did he wouldn't try to fug the mommy/student of his victims.

    I woulnd't care at all if Bishop was with Psylocke or whatever. It is that it was Jean and that it was after his mess. Makes everybody involved look like an idiot.
    Jean could fug anybody else, that was never the problem.
    Jean and Bishop both didn’t remember that at the time.

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