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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonn...3whore_complex

    Are we witnessing an example of this in this thread?

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonn...3whore_complex

    Are we witnessing an example of this in this thread?
    Maybe. There's a case to be made both ways.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I don't like Jean, but I feel like she gets a lot of hate for things that either happened when she was dead or without her consent. I mean, does she really see any of those people as her children? Should she? And Bishop wnrt crazy when she was dead. Plus, in this reality, he presumably never really did any of that stuff.
    All of this, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoEFrost View Post
    Slut shaming is shaming a woman for having multiple partners. People are shaming Jean because her partner canonically tried to murder her son and granddaughter. It has nothing to do with anything sexual, and everything about Bishop (and his character assassination).
    Slut shame isn't only about having multiple partners. Jean is constantly slut shamed even if she only had one man on all her life.
    None of what happened on 616 has anything to do with age of x-man universe.
    Last edited by spirit2011; 07-11-2019 at 06:54 PM.

  4. #34
    BANNED fsger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    All of this, thanks.



    Slut shame isn't only about having multiple partners. Jean is constantly slut shamed even if she only had one man on all her life.
    None of what happened on 616 has anything to do with age of x-man universe.
    Except it does because it will carry to the main universe.
    You would be complaining if suddenly Scott and Jean were married on an AU and decided to keep being married after that.
    This has the same problem, no build up, nada, cero. It is not an organic develpment for any of the charaters. all the opposite if they had story before her death and Bishop went crazy a case could be made but how this makes the mess look is like nor Jean or Bishop care about it, or that she liked it. Imagine if they had a kid and someone tried to kill it. Do you think Jean would like it or that she should feel attracted to that person( even if she had previous romantic story which she doesn't have with Bishop)? would that make sense or be organic? and what about the guy who tried to kill it, even if it was with good intentions remorse alone should prevent anything between them.
    Not to mention that everything is going to be totally different on the "real" world, they can't keep the AU forever (but do not worry marvel will continue this and ignore every problem)
    It doesn't make sense, it will continue but it doesn't mean that it makes sense.


    Those family reunions are going to be awkward as hell.

  5. #35
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    I feel like Jean's thing from fans isn't exactly a Madonna/Whore complex, but it is a variation of it. Women sre held to a very high standard, especially when they're these beautiful and successful women who can seemingly do it all. People want them to keep doing that. Jean is expected to be perfect, but she isn't. She's simply a person who has to deal with all of these bizarre and awful situations.

    She didn't know Bishop when he was going nuts, she didn't give birth to Nate or anyone else. Why is she expected to be the mother to all of these people? Why can't she be attracted to Bishop? He's attractive, intelligent, interesting and he's not currently insane. She doesn't have Scott or Logan there, so why not go for Bishop? Why shouldn't Bishop be attracted to her?

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I feel like Jean's thing from fans isn't exactly a Madonna/Whore complex, but it is a variation of it. Women sre held to a very high standard, especially when they're these beautiful and successful women who can seemingly do it all. People want them to keep doing that. Jean is expected to be perfect, but she isn't. She's simply a person who has to deal with all of these bizarre and awful situations.

    She didn't know Bishop when he was going nuts, she didn't give birth to Nate or anyone else. Why is she expected to be the mother to all of these people? Why can't she be attracted to Bishop? He's attractive, intelligent, interesting and he's not currently insane. She doesn't have Scott or Logan there, so why not go for Bishop? Why shouldn't Bishop be attracted to her?
    there wasn't a way to Jean know about Bishop trying to murder Cable and Hope. IDK why people don't understand it.
    yes, it is prefectly normal they being attracted to each other.

    Jean never had much agency with all those kids she is a "mother". Cable is from Maddie and Jean raised because he was her husband son, she ended up loving the kid. Rachel is from a alternate earth, same from Nate.

  7. #37
    BANNED fsger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I feel like Jean's thing from fans isn't exactly a Madonna/Whore complex, but it is a variation of it. Women sre held to a very high standard, especially when they're these beautiful and successful women who can seemingly do it all. People want them to keep doing that. Jean is expected to be perfect, but she isn't. She's simply a person who has to deal with all of these bizarre and awful situations.

    She didn't know Bishop when he was going nuts, she didn't give birth to Nate or anyone else. Why is she expected to be the mother to all of these people? Why can't she be attracted to Bishop? He's attractive, intelligent, interesting and he's not currently insane. She doesn't have Scott or Logan there, so why not go for Bishop? Why shouldn't Bishop be attracted to her?
    Nobody cares about Scott and Logan, they have little to do here. But as you pointed this is an AU, the circunstances and lives were totally diferent than their "real" lives.
    Everybody falls in love with Jean, she is hot and charismatic but neither showed anything after years of being on the same teams. Everybody on the X-men is (i don't think he is either of those) hot, interestinig, etc. So those aren't enough, it is specially stupid the fact that they went from strangers to the love of their lives on one issue (not even that they don't even have one issue of build up they just suddenly were a couple)

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsger View Post
    Except it does because it will carry to the main universe.
    You would be complaining if suddenly Scott and Jean were married on an AU and decided to keep being married after that.
    This has the same problem, no build up, nada, cero. It is not an organic develpment for any of the charaters. all the opposite if they had story before her death and Bishop went crazy a case could be made but how this makes the mess look is like nor Jean or Bishop care about it, or that she liked it. Imagine if they had a kid and someone tried to kill it. Do you think Jean would like it or that she should feel attracted to that person( even if she had previous romantic story which she doesn't have with Bishop)? would that make sense or be organic? and what about the guy who tried to kill it, even if it was with good intentions remorse alone should prevent anything between them.
    Not to mention that everything is going to be totally different on the "real" world, they can't keep the AU forever (but do not worry marvel will continue this and ignore every problem)
    It doesn't make sense, it will continue but it doesn't mean that it makes sense.


    Those family reunions are going to be awkward as hell.
    It's not going to carry on 616. Even JDW said that it was a last minute decision, and Hickaman didn't care about what writers are doing on AOXM.

  9. #39
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    "It's not an AU. It's a whole new plane of existence" is the worst way to cover up how this is an AU.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    And how could Jean know that Bishop tried to kill Hope, if she doesn't have the memories? They all have different memories from 616. She doesn't even know she is his mother to help him
    This bishop-Jean romance is becoming slut shaming
    My point isn't that Jean's wrong for sleeping with Bishop, my point is, why is it a surprise that Nathan hates that she is? Hope is Nathan's daughter by the same degree that he is Jean's son. I'm not at all surprised that he threw the man who tried to kill someone who is essentially his daughter ("Your my Hope" said Nate in that one comic) and his mother is starting a relationship with in prison. Hell, Bishop tried to kill Cable too and Nate is Cable, so yeah, he might take offense to that. He's mentally sick and nobody likes Bishop anymore anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Pretty much this, but there's no reason he can't be both sick and cruel. His actions have definitely long since crossed the line into cruel, as described and outlined by Rosebunse, but he himself is a sick person/character who needed a lot of psychological help that he never got, and what's happening is the inevitable consequence of attaching nearly godlike power to an extremely disturbed and unwell psyche. What he's trying to do is force the world to make sense to him out of the sincere delusion that he's making it "better," but all he's doing is causing untold amounts of damage and suffering to the world and to those he claims to care for and want to help.
    You're right. Saying he's sick explains his actions but it doesn't rationalize them, but it does make me wonder who is to blame. Nathan disappeared around the same time that Cyclops died. Out of everyone he's related to, Cyclops is really the only one who has always tried to reach out to him and maybe that's because Cyclops is always seeking more family (see the way he reacts to Rachel as opposed to Jean). Maybe if Cyclops and Jean were both in his head in Disassembled, they could've convinced him otherwise. Honestly, whoever gave Nathan the Life Seed seems almost predatory at this point (so by Nate's history, it's probably Madelyne but in actuality, probably not), taking advantage of a vulnerable psyche and twisting him into something he's not.
    Last edited by Drexelhand; 07-11-2019 at 07:43 PM.

  11. #41
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    My opinion is that this is an AU, but with 616 characters stuck in it. It's why Apocalypse has trouble with that menorah, but not Kitty. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

    Yeah, if they don't tell us where Nate got that Life Seed, I'm going to be pissed. I still feel like it's that one thing that might tie this to HoX. I mean, did Nate kill a Celestrial? Did someone else kill one? For whatever reason, thisnis really, really bothering me.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    My opinion is that this is an AU, but with 616 characters stuck in it. It's why Apocalypse has trouble with that menorah, but not Kitty. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

    Yeah, if they don't tell us where Nate got that Life Seed, I'm going to be pissed. I still feel like it's that one thing that might tie this to HoX. I mean, did Nate kill a Celestrial? Did someone else kill one? For whatever reason, thisnis really, really bothering me.
    Maybe Sinister or Xavier gave it to him?

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    My point isn't that Jean's wrong for sleeping with Bishop, my point is, why is it a surprise that Nathan hates that she is? Hope is Nathan's daughter by the same degree that he is Jean's son. I'm not at all surprised that he threw the man who tried to kill someone who is essentially his daughter ("Your my Hope" said Nate in that one comic) and his mother is starting a relationship with in prison. Hell, Bishop tried to kill Cable too and Nate is Cable, so yeah, he might take offense to that. He's mentally sick and nobody likes Bishop anymore anyways.
    .
    Hope isn't Cable biological daughter, so i'm not sure how Nate sees her or even Cable. I mean if he wanted to avoid any chances of Jean falling for Bishop maybe he could had let the messiah complex be in continuity on AOXM.
    I think the point is that he took Jean for granted, that she would follow his ways. and he was in part wrong

  14. #44
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Hopes only blood relative and guardian is still alive in Canada. Grandma Spaulding. She was effectively kidnapped

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    So Nate can feel people have secks on him? Wild.
    similar thing happened to a friend of mine lrts5 try to Be a lil sensitive ...A lotta people can't/didn't feel people have sex on him For 2 main reasons 1) the 2 other people in his Knoxville hotel bed were his best friends poetic douchy ex and another best of them both the good friend of his ex, 2)he found out Sangria+Molly+PBR +Molly+nudity+emo =dreamless sleep
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    can nate feel people use the bathroom
    that one chick didn't
    Quote Originally Posted by nx01a View Post
    I'm still wondering what happened to all those religious icons and buildings Nate destroyed.
    they gone
    Quote Originally Posted by fsger View Post
    Except it does because it will carry to the main universe.
    You would be complaining if suddenly Scott and Jean were married on an AU and decided to keep being married after that.
    This has the same problem, no build up, nada, cero. It is not an organic develpment for any of the charaters. all the opposite if they had story before her death and Bishop went crazy a case could be made but how this makes the mess look is like nor Jean or Bishop care about it, or that she liked it. Imagine if they had a kid and someone tried to kill it. Do you think Jean would like it or that she should feel attracted to that person( even if she had previous romantic story which she doesn't have with Bishop)? would that make sense or be organic? and what about the guy who tried to kill it, even if it was with good intentions remorse alone should prevent anything between them.
    Not to mention that everything is going to be totally different on the "real" world, they can't keep the AU forever (but do not worry marvel will continue this and ignore every problem)
    It doesn't make sense, it will continue but it doesn't mean that it makes sense.


    Those family reunions are going to be awkward as hell.
    You think Jean sees cable as her kid? lol and why would falling in love with your kid's would be killer than falling in love with a man who led psychopaths to commit genocide on a buncha week mutsnts6 many defenseless women and children???Or a man who killed most of kids with his own claws, orrrrr falling in love with the destroyer if a whole broccoli people?!??

    Quote Originally Posted by fsger View Post


    Those family reunions are going to be awkward as hell.
    You ain't having a family reunion if it ain't awkward

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