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  1. #1
    Safari Grandma Sophicles's Avatar
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    Default David Haller vs Dark Phoenix

    FX Legion's David takes on Dark Phoenix Sansa.

    No BFR.

    Who wins?

  2. #2
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    David hands down. He beats her in a Telepath duel and a Telekinetic duel and the quckdraw.

  3. #3
    Safari Grandma Sophicles's Avatar
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    David has trouble with and can at most stalemate Shadow King, who his father flat out beat.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcdaTzRu5ek

    And Dark Phoenix Jean was mentioned to be at or above Xavier in telepathy, albeit it was a younger version of Xavier (though it was also a younger version that beat Farouk prior to David's birth)... So I don't know that David is going to be winning a TP battle for a majority of the time.

  4. #4
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Honestly, there is too much that we don't know about either one of them to be able to go into the "Nuts And Bolts..."

  5. #5
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Some things.

    The Shadow King that Xavier fought and the Shadow King that David fought are worlds apart. This Shadow King has been feeding off David for 20+ years and has gained his powers on top of his original ones, and when he got his body he even said that he would become more powerful than ever before and would become a God.

    For his Telepathy he has connected with his Sister who was far away from him(cities between them), and can casually go to the Astral plane after practicing which makes his limit Worldwide(he called out SKing who was in a different part of the Country and he heard).

    He also has 3 Astral plane battles with each time escalating his powers and abilities and it ends with that clip of the Desert battle where he creates a Storm in the Real World, uses Reality or his Sound Manipulation to have the song playing in the background (even the SKing heard it and was singing along), and was fighting fast enough that their Constructs were moving during Lightning strikes(as the Lightning was coming down the Constructs are doing moves before it hits the ground).

    Or he could just warp Reality like he did to the fear bug and dominate her there, or he could turn her into a pig and she can't counter that.

    Her only TP feats are being yelled at by Xavier to release her power after being useless in the Astral duel before that, and then in the latest movie after Absorbing the Force Xavier said he couldn't get past her blocks. That is it. She is nowhere near as skilled as David and he still has more Raw power as in the future he cracked the world in half like an egg as said by a person who lived in that future.
    Last edited by Darth Drizzle; 07-10-2019 at 09:01 AM.

  6. #6
    Fantastic Member Tomzilla's Avatar
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    Before merging with the Phoenix Force, Jean obliterated Apocalypse on the Astral Plane while simultaneously flaying him alive in the physical world. Apocalypse's mental defenses were so vast he effortlessly overwhelmed Professor X. I don't think even the Shadow King could infect Apocalypse's mind.

    So, Dark Phoenix wins in the telepathic department. Reality warping makes things more complicated, however. I'll reserve judgment until Legion concludes since David might undergo another powerup.
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  7. #7
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomzilla View Post
    Before merging with the Phoenix Force, Jean obliterated Apocalypse on the Astral Plane while simultaneously flaying him alive in the physical world. Apocalypse's mental defenses were so vast he effortlessly overwhelmed Professor X. I don't think even the Shadow King could infect Apocalypse's mind.

    So, Dark Phoenix wins in the telepathic department. Reality warping makes things more complicated, however. I'll reserve judgment until Legion concludes since David might undergo another powerup.
    I noted the Apocalypse fight above but again that feat is not that impressive as that was the 1 and only time she was in the Astral p!ane and she didn't learn anything about it(like how to Manipulate it and herself while in it) or gain any insight on her connection to it, she literally got yelled at by Xavier and did the equivalent of closing your eyes and throwing a haymaker punch in a boxing fight.

    Meanwhile David has had multiple escalating battles. His 1st battle in the Astral plane was a interpretive dance battle against SKing where he is still learning the ropes. His 2nd battle shows him learning how to Manipulate the Astral plane and his abilities to to get an edge in battle. And the clip shown before was his 3rd battle where he was affecting the area around him in the real world while battling a Full power SKing who was in his Original Body which as explained in the show made him much more powerful than ever before and he still won out.

    Jean hasn't shown Telepathy that can cross multiple cities with ease. She has NO control over the Astral plane, she can't take herself there, nor can she take other people there against their will (David can) and once their she doesn't understand it at all and can't use it to aid her.

    Again her best TP feat is suprising an occupied and multi tasking Apocalypse who didn't know of the Force inside her with a closed eyes haymaker and then After absorbing the cosmic power Xavier couldn't get in her head. Compared to 2+ seasons of David learning and growing in power against Oliver who lived in the Astral plane for decades and couldn't break out(David did on his first try) and the Shadow King who mastered the Astral plane and it's abilities over 20+ years and knew him and all his abilities. Apocalypse being trapped for decades not in the Astral plane and learning nothing doesnt come close to David or SKing.
    Last edited by Darth Drizzle; 07-10-2019 at 11:24 AM.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Jean Grey FTW.

    Phoenix FTW!

    Dark Phoenix FTW!!

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Shai-Hulud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Jean Grey FTW.

    Phoenix FTW!

    Dark Phoenix FTW!!
    You're supposed to provide reasons, feats, evidence. It's not a survey or a fan vote.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shai-Hulud View Post
    You're supposed to provide reasons, feats, evidence. It's not a survey or a fan vote.
    Oh, sorry.

    Jean is more powerful today as Jean than previously, and moreso than Xavier now, even as she was prior to her last death.

    Xavier himself, however, has had 1-2 power ups in the last 5 years or so (being thrown into the M'Krann Crystal to re-empower him and then when he returned to life in his new body, stated to be more powerful than before.

    Xavier is more powerful TP than Legion, but Legion has a, er,...a legion of powers to call upon. Xavier was probably more powerful in the past, but with the 2 recent power ups should be above Legion for sure.

    Jean as The Phoenix was unmatched psychic power.

    Jean as Dark Phoenix was even more powerful and without restraint. She could match Legions madness, but excelled him in raw power.
    Last edited by Phoenixx9; 07-10-2019 at 11:23 AM.

  11. #11
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    ...Okay I think I might have to check out Legion. That is seriously trippy.

  12. #12
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenixx9 View Post
    Oh, sorry.

    Jean is more powerful today as Jean than previously, and moreso than Xavier now, even as she was prior to her last death.

    Xavier himself, however, has had 1-2 power ups in the last 5 years or so (being thrown into the M'Krann Crystal to re-empower him and then when he returned to life in his new body, stated to be more powerful than before.

    Xavier is more powerful TP than Legion, but Legion has a, er,...a legion of powers to call upon. Xavier was probably more powerful in the past, but with the 2 recent power ups should be above Legion for sure.

    Jean as The Phoenix was unmatched psychic power.

    Jean as Dark Phoenix was even more powerful and without restraint. She could match Legions madness, but excelled him in raw power.
    You need to read the post my friend. Here, we are talking about Netflix Haller against Fox recent Dark Phoenix Jean. There is no M'krann here, there is no nothing of the sort.

    Legion's raw power includes reality warping to a massive degree.

    OTOH, he doesn't really have any speed, and Phoenix Jean reacted to Fox Quicksilver mid-blitz. So she's got relative eons of time to play here and should be able to vape him.
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  13. #13
    A Zest 4 KungFu Treachery Darth Drizzle's Avatar
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    David stopped machine gun bullets after they fired from 5ft away, and stopped time while doing so for an extended period. Plus his mental combat speed had his Astral construct moving during a lightning strike, so compared to Jeans complete outlier he has her beat on the quickdraw imo.

  14. #14
    Fantastic Member Tomzilla's Avatar
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    Warning: LEGION spoilers ahead.



    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Drizzle
    I noted the Apocalypse fight above but again that feat is not that impressive as that was the 1 and only time she was in the Astral p!ane and she didn't learn anything about it(like how to Manipulate it and herself while in it) or gain any insight on her connection to it, she literally got yelled at by Xavier and did the equivalent of closing your eyes and throwing a haymaker punch in a boxing fight.
    Jean telepathically eviscerated Apocalypse who telepathically stomped Professor X who is at the very least on par with David/Shadow King.

    If you count David’s father as being the same Professor X from the X-Men films, the mutant telepathic hierarchy – based on empirical feats – goes like this:

    Dark Phoenix/Jean Grey > Apocalypse > Professor X > Shadow King/David

    Of course, Shadow King and David have more powers at their disposal, and I’d rank ‘em higher than Professor X and maybe Apocalypse in an overall power ranking list. However, there’s currently no evidence to suggest that Shadow Kong and David’s telepathy trumps Xavier’s.

    Again her best TP feat is suprising an occupied and multi tasking Apocalypse who didn't know of the Force inside her with a closed eyes haymaker and then After absorbing the cosmic power Xavier couldn't get in her head. Compared to 2+ seasons of David learning and growing in power against Oliver who lived in the Astral plane for decades and couldn't break out(David did on his first try) and the Shadow King who mastered the Astral plane and it's abilities over 20+ years and knew him and all his abilities. Apocalypse being trapped for decades not in the Astral plane and learning nothing doesnt come close to David or SKing.
    That’s all nice and good. It’s just the Phoenix Force is a planet buster. It wiped out the Vuk’s homeworld. Of course, the Phoenix Force has the power to restore worlds, too. Dark Phoenix’s raw power (+planet buster), matter manipulation (+superseded control over Magneto’s magnetism), telepathy (+greater than Professor X and Apocalypse), regeneration (+instantly healed a nasty stab through her chest), and reaction time (+blitzing Quicksilver and deflecting Storm’s lightning) is currently too much for David to overcome; however, he could match her power by series end. We’ll find out soon.

    David stopped machine gun bullets after they fired from 5ft away, and stopped time while doing so for an extended period. Plus his mental combat speed had his Astral construct moving during a lightning strike, so compared to Jeans complete outlier he has her beat on the quickdraw imo.
    Firstly, prove Jean’s Quicksilver feat is an outlier. Second, David was recently shot and killed by a shotgun. Twice. He was saved only by time travel shenanigans. Yes, he’s stopped bullets before but only because he had enough time to psychically create an AoE field. Against an opponent who’s fast enough to blitz Quicksilver? He’s not going to do well.
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  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomzilla View Post
    Firstly, prove Jean’s Quicksilver feat is an outlier. Second, David was recently shot and killed by a shotgun. Twice. He was saved only by time travel shenanigans. Yes, he’s stopped bullets before but only because he had enough time to psychically create an AoE field. Against an opponent who’s fast enough to blitz Quicksilver? He’s not going to do well.
    How Jean treated Storm should indicate that the Quicksilver feat wasn't an outlier. We can do this two ways:

    1. Jean blocked the lightning bolt by anticipating Storm's aim (like aim-dodging rather than something with bullet-timing, but with blocking instead)
    --or--
    2. Jean blocked the lightning bolt when it was already in flight (thus more like bullet-timing with lightning speeds)

    But in either case, speed or reaction (or both!) Jean's defenses on their own would be incredibly difficult to crack. In either case, the end result is that she wrecked Quicksilver. There's more than one way to blitz, after all.

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