Can Jean & Emma Be Friends?

[spirit2011]

I think it depends on the real life aspect. Like how some think KittyLossus is disgusting because of the ages they were when it started, even though it wasn't depicted as a bad relationship compared to the toxic ships we've actually seen that were depicted as such.

Using a favorite I had. Whenever Sabretooth comes up, people will say him being a rapist makes him irredeemable. Whenever the pairing with Monet came up, people objected on grounds that he's a rapist. Whenever Wolverine's crimes come up, the argument is "Well he's not a rapist." Imo, I would think the serial killing & cannibalism is worse. Or when he shot a pregnant woman to spite her husband. But irl, you see more cases of sexual violation personally that it becomes more personal than his other crimes. Irl, many have probably come in contact with or been victim to clear sex offenders than they have of being cannibalized or hunted by serial killers.

So it's similar with Emma. Her fooling around with a married man is not the worst thing that's been done. But some people here probably have experience in the adultery camp, that their dislike for Emma on that front rings more personal & it's easier to hate her. Either they lost a SO to the other woman, or had families broken up do to the other woman. So Scott & Emma's affair seems like a more real thing that many have experienced in some way that would piss them off regarding the characters. Even though both have done worse, along with numerous other characters.

It's more relatable things that happen all around us, than things like genocide that are often distant. So it's eaier hold grudge over Emma than Magneto.
My problem also is the follow up

[Triniking1234]

They can't be friends. Emma started the affair to spite Jean, and during the last couple of years, Emma has been burning bridge after bridge with the X-Men.

spirit mentioned this too. Someone asked for scans but I haven't seen any.

[Askani's Flame]

spirit mentioned this too. Someone asked for scans but I haven't seen any.

Yeah, I don't remember it being anything to spite Jean. I could be wrong, but always felt that she was doing it because she wanted to and fell for Scott.

[spirit2011]

Yeah, I don't remember it being anything to spite Jean. I could be wrong, but always felt that she was doing it because she wanted to and fell for Scott.

She didn't fell for him. She targeted him on annual because he was married

[thechronic92]

spirit mentioned this too. Someone asked for scans but I haven't seen any.

It's putting 2 and 2 together, she resented Jean and had an inferiority complex.

[Omega Alpha]

She targeted him on annual because he was HOT

Fixed for ya.

[spirit2011]

Fixed for ya.

She also was very enthusiastic to make him cheat on Jean.

[fsger]

Hehehe, people love to ignore that Emma cheated on Scott too. They need a remainder

[RachelGrey]

Hehehe, people love to ignore that Emma cheated on Scott too. They need a remainder

Are you talking about when she was possessed by the Phoenix Force? Oh yeah, and Scott killed Xavier too! They were both possessed by the Phoenix Force. Emma kissed Namor, that isn't an affair, that's a mistake. She had all the memories of her romance and almost marriage to Namor returned to her and she was confused if she still had those feelings. Scott was acting really distant, and Namor was constantly flirting with Emma. She still didn't act on it until the Phoenix was possessing her and Namor and even then she only kissed Namor once, and she confessed to Scott.

I guess you were one of the people that felt Scott was perfectly justified for the way he assaulted Emma when he took the Phoenix Force from her. I gave him a pass on that because the Phoenix drove him to want to win at all costs even assaulting and sacrificing his teammate in the process. Illyana and Piotre tried to kill each other, I guess that was totally normal for them and had nothing to do with the Phoenix in them both.

I agree that Emma wronged Jean by having a psychic affair with Scott. Emma is a selfish person, I agree with people on that, she wanted Scott and she didn't care that it hurt Jean at the time. In the end it depends on the writers, Jean and Emma could find a way to be grudging colleagues as time goes on just by working together. It's pretty obvious Scott isn't going to get back together with Emma from Rosenberg's run, so who knows what is going to happen in the fall with Hickman. Heck Scott may just decide to date someone else and Jean and Emma will both have to move on.

It's a soap opera and people who were enemies can be friends eventually, it happens all the time. Just like people can forgive another person for having an affair with their spouse given enough time.

Let's be perfectly honest here, Scott flirted with Betsy when he was with Jean, and he had an affair with Emma while he was married to Jean. People like to blame the woman, but all Scott had to do was say no and walk away, that's not what he did.

If Emma hadn't had an affair with Scott and stayed out if it, Jean and Scott were still on their way to ending in divorce. Jean was becoming obsessive because of the Phoenix inside her, she was always trying to get in Scott's head all the time even when he wanted to be by himself. Scott wasn't talking to Jean about what he was going through after Apocalypse. In the real world unless they actually got some serious couples counseling they were on their way to divorce before Emma even touched their relationship.

That doesn't excuse Emma for pursuing Scott, but in the end, Scott didn't say no either!

As for Jean and Emma, I got a glimpse of what I would like to see in the Jean Grey series. I like that they were able to set aside their differences to work toward common cause, and even though I don't think they will ever be best friends, I think they are quite capable of being mature intelligent women and working together as colleagues.

I guess for me I am not invested in whether Scott and Jean end up together, or whether Scott and Emma end up together. Personally, I would like to see both relationships go on the back burner for a bit and just let these 3 strong characters work to rebuild the X-Men because the X-Men are better with all 3 of them present. I don't want Jean to be written out because she is just as much my favorite as Emma is and I want both of them to be in an ongoing book going into the future.

I know why the writers wrote Jean out back in the day, it was the same reason that they used a deal with the devil to end Peter and MJ. The writers don't like the existing relationship, but they are incapable of actually writing about a separation and divorce because that would require some decent dramatic writing. The Peter Parker I knew would never have made a deal with the devil to save his Aunt, and Aunt May would never forgive him for doing that. Same with MJ. that was a editorial prerogative just because the Editor hated the marriage.

The same goes for Jean and Scott. They wanted to try something new with Scott, the editors and writers hated the marriage because they thought it aged the characters (or whatever) so bring Emma in the break them up, but then "oh we have no idea how to write a divorce storyline" or "a divorce storyline is too messy for the X-Men" so lets just kill Jean off instead of actually doing a compelling story. Instead of killing Jean off, she could have gone and started her own break off team of X-Men away from Emma and Scott. There were so many things they could do, but the writers and editors killed Jean because they were useless and they didn't want to actually tell the story to it's conclusion.

I think this is what pisses everyone off, Jean got fridged by an editorial mandate and honestly it pisses me off too. Jean should have been back right at the end of Phoenix Endsong and she shouldn't have been gone longer than that. I hope some writer does a telepath team someday so these idiot writers keep writing off the telepaths because they don't know what to do with them. Put Emma, Jean, Betsy, Rachel, Celeste, Irma, Phoebe, and Quentin on a team that have to stop some kind of horrible psionic threat that has undermined everyone in the world except the telepaths. I would love to see a story like that where they actually show how to differentiate these telepathic characters and make them unique and dynamic in a story.

So yeah, I think Jean and Emma can work together. They aren't ever going to be close friends, but they can easily find common cause. Emma at her core is a school teacher and she is very protective of children. That doesn't always shine out behind all that snarkiness and bitchiness that she puts on for everyone, but even when she was running the Hellfire Club as Black King, she was building frigging schools for mutants. So yeah I think it's possible for Jean and Emma to find common cause, particularly in teaching and protecting the younger generation of X-Men.

[Omega Alpha]

Jean should have been back right at the end of Phoenix Endsong and she shouldn't have been gone longer than that.

Whedon's AXM made it impossible, it would affect the story too much. Afterwards, it was M-Day (Phoenix powered Jean could have solved it), and then after it ended, Bendis wanted the 05 back with the drama after Jean dead. After that ended, there was the Terrigen mess- more precisely, the fact Scott was being portrayed as "the new Hitler" and Jean returning would obviously question that and the writers would be forced to be drawn into specifics on what they have done what was so bad (they kept Emma out of the books for the same reason).

[Sandy Hausler]

This thread is going to end so bad.

You're probably right. But luckily this is not the the DC Forum, so I don't have to deal with it.

[Havok83]

Hehehe, people love to ignore that Emma cheated on Scott too. They need a remainder

more like its irrelevant. That has nothing to do with why they Emma and Jean should or shouldnt be friends

Whedon's AXM made it impossible, it would affect the story too much. Afterwards, it was M-Day (Phoenix powered Jean could have solved it), and then after it ended, Bendis wanted the 05 back with the drama after Jean dead. After that ended, there was the Terrigen mess- more precisely, the fact Scott was being portrayed as "the new Hitler" and Jean returning would obviously question that and the writers would be forced to be drawn into specifics on what they have done what was so bad (they kept Emma out of the books for the same reason).

Id have rather Jean back than any of that crap happening

[Havok83]

Are you talking about when she was possessed by the Phoenix Force? Oh yeah, and Scott killed Xavier too! They were both possessed by the Phoenix Force. Emma kissed Namor, that isn't an affair, that's a mistake. She had all the memories of her romance and almost marriage to Namor returned to her and she was confused if she still had those feelings. Scott was acting really distant, and Namor was constantly flirting with Emma. She still didn't act on it until the Phoenix was possessing her and Namor and even then she only kissed Namor once, and she confessed to Scott.

I dont think it matters to this thread but Emma and Namor did more than kiss. She had psychic sex with him just as she did with Scott

[RachelGrey]

more like its irrelevant. That has nothing to do with why they Emma and Jean should or shouldnt be friends



Id have rather Jean back than any of that crap happening

I also think that they should have brought Jean back without the Phoenix just like they did in Red. It's the editors and writers not wanting to write two telepaths at the same time, and not wanting to deal with the fallout of Jean and Scott's marriage. For some reason divorce seems to scare these people that they don't want to write about it.

I agree that some of the past stories would have been different with Jean present, but they still could have had Jean and Scott going their separate ways. It was very easy for Jean to take over a different team X-Factor or a variation of the X-Men. If Jean had been around at the time after AvX she would probably have been leading Uncanny Avengers because she is probably the most diplomatic of the X-Men.

The only reason Jean was written out was editorial mandate and that is it. Even the way she died was stupid. She had the Phoenix inside her and the Phoenix resurrected Rachel over 8 times when Rachel was fighting the Acolytes in the future, it's not that hard to imagine the Phoenix could have easily resurrected Jean immediately after she was killed by Xorn.

The only reason she died is because the editor at the time thought marriage was bad for the characters, and it's the very reason I hated One More Day with every fibre of my being. Every time someone mentions One More Day to me I just burn with anger and rage at that stupid storyline and the stupid idiot editor who thought it was a good idea in the first place. This is the same editor that had a say in Jean being written out because they didn't want Scott to be married anymore. For gods sake just have the characters break up and get a divorce, it's not that hard to write, it's not like I see Jean and Scott as some teenage kids in love, they are adults, adults make a mistake and cause each other pain and they break up. Just write it well and no one would care.

Even I am bitter about them writing Jean out because I know they did it because they didn't actually have the courage to put the word divorce into a comic book.

As for Jean and Emma, I still think they can overcome their differences and work together as colleagues.

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

Are you talking about when she was possessed by the Phoenix Force? Oh yeah, and Scott killed Xavier too! They were both possessed by the Phoenix Force. Emma kissed Namor, that isn't an affair, that's a mistake. She had all the memories of her romance and almost marriage to Namor returned to her and she was confused if she still had those feelings. Scott was acting really distant, and Namor was constantly flirting with Emma. She still didn't act on it until the Phoenix was possessing her and Namor and even then she only kissed Namor once, and she confessed to Scott.

Not really. Sure, she fessed up to the one-time psychic tryst, but she totally played the I'm the victim/I luvvv you card and didn't tell Scott about her previous betrayal. Not a whole lot to brag about, really.

Anyway. The preview art from the X-Men Monday thread obliterated this one into irrelevance. 'Can Logan & Sinister be friends?' is much, much moar relevant to current events.