View Poll Results: Can Jean & Emma Be Friends?

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  • Yes

    58 42.96%
  • No

    77 57.04%
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  1. #136
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    John Derek had three ex wives who remained not only his friend, but ended up becoming friends with his last wife Bo Derek. So yes it is possible for Jean and Emma to be friends.

    Obviously Scott and only Scott is responsible fir him cheating. He left Madeline Pryor too. He had a lot of issues emotionally connecting with people and thatís why he has had two failed marriages.

  2. #137
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    John Derek had three ex wives who remained not only his friend, but ended up becoming friends with his last wife Bo Derek. So yes it is possible for Jean and Emma to be friends.

    Obviously Scott and only Scott is responsible fir him cheating. He left Madeline Pryor too. He had a lot of issues emotionally connecting with people and that’s why he has had two failed marriages.
    Emma made the first move and knew what she was doing, so no, not only Scott is responsible.

    Also, you are missing a lot of the important context behind of what happened with Maddie.
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  3. #138
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    I don't think focusing on the affair or the DPS or whatever else is important to the question. These two have very fundamentally opposed worldviews and their methods, over the long term, are incompatible. I can give you examples if you'd like, but this is well worn territory. If none of their naughty history happened, they still wouldn't be friends. You see the problem is that they just don't like each other. All the history between them merely exacerbated that.

    I think of them sort of as diametrically opposed, and unlikely to coexist without one or the other moderating their point of view. I think there's one kind of X-Men where Emma is prominent, and stays pure to her stated philosophies; and there's another kind where Jean in prominent, and stays pure to her stated philosophies. The reason I believe this is that I feel they have an disproportionate ideological impact on at least the higher profile (or flagships) books. You can see this in Jean's effect on both Charles and Scott. You can also see this in Emma's effect on Scott. He's dreadfully susceptible to this kind of moral influence but this goes beyond just Scott. The whole tone of the franchise was fundamentally different during the Emma period and the Jean period, with Morrison's run acting as the transition zone between these eras.

    I'd prefer they both moderate to some extent, at least to the point of being able to coexist long term, but I suspect that if Emma continues to be a mainstay in the core X-Books, she will be changed, or her role will be to remain an outsider. At bottom these two are matter and antimatter. Friendship is irrelevant. It's much more about how radically different their influence on the other X-Men actually is.

  4. #139
    Incredible Member ButterRum's Avatar
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    Cyclops and Wolverine have opposing views. So do Magneto and Professor X.

    I want the same nuance in Jean and Emma's relationship that we get from Cyclops vs Wolverine and Magneto vs Professor X.

  5. #140
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    Cyclops and Wolverine have opposing views. So do Magneto and Professor X.

    I want the same nuance in Jean and Emma's relationship that we get from Cyclops vs Wolverine and Magneto vs Professor X.
    Erik and Xavier has a very complicated story before they started to put their worldviews into action, so a part of then still want that old friendship (although after what have been retconed about Xavier, maybe they aren't that different).

    Scott and Logan were never friends, Morrison was the closest that they got to that and even then it was basically just mutual respect and years of familiarity, not a friendship.

    Jean and Emma can have a complex and compelling dynamic, but friends is something out of their reach.
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  6. #141
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I don't think focusing on the affair or the DPS or whatever else is important to the question. These two have very fundamentally opposed worldviews and their methods, over the long term, are incompatible. I can give you examples if you'd like, but this is well worn territory. If none of their naughty history happened, they still wouldn't be friends. You see the problem is that they just don't like each other. All the history between them merely exacerbated that.

    I think of them sort of as diametrically opposed, and unlikely to coexist without one or the other moderating their point of view. I think there's one kind of X-Men where Emma is prominent, and stays pure to her stated philosophies; and there's another kind where Jean in prominent, and stays pure to her stated philosophies. The reason I believe this is that I feel they have an disproportionate ideological impact on at least the higher profile (or flagships) books. You can see this in Jean's effect on both Charles and Scott. You can also see this in Emma's effect on Scott. He's dreadfully susceptible to this kind of moral influence but this goes beyond just Scott. The whole tone of the franchise was fundamentally different during the Emma period and the Jean period, with Morrison's run acting as the transition zone between these eras.

    I'd prefer they both moderate to some extent, at least to the point of being able to coexist long term, but I suspect that if Emma continues to be a mainstay in the core X-Books, she will be changed, or her role will be to remain an outsider. At bottom these two are matter and antimatter. Friendship is irrelevant. It's much more about how radically different their influence on the other X-Men actually is.
    Morrison and Hopeless already had Jean try Emma's methods and like it. He'll X-Men Red had that team chop someone's hand off and they violates India's sovereignty.

    Jeans ideology wa a an extension of Xavier but has not been well established. She will be numarveled soon enough

    So no strongly disagree. Their differences are on personality.

    What you're describing is a Jean that hasn't existed since the 80s and the whole point of Teen Jean was to get away from that st Jean image
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 07-14-2019 at 07:17 PM.

  7. #142
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    Cyclops and Wolverine have opposing views. So do Magneto and Professor X.

    I want the same nuance in Jean and Emma's relationship that we get from Cyclops vs Wolverine and Magneto vs Professor X.
    Yeah, I can't wait for Emma to tell Jean to "stick it in your ear bub".

  8. #143
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Morrison and Hopeless already had Jean try Emma's methods and like it. He'll X-Men Red had that team chop someone's hand off and they violates India's sovereignty.

    Jeans ideology wa a an extension of Xavier but has not been well established. She will be numarveled soon enough

    So no strongly disagree. Their differences are on personality.

    What you're describing is a Jean that hasn't existed since the 80s and the whole point of Teen Jean was to get away from that st Jean image
    I said they were opposed. I never said one was a saint and the other the devil. That's interpretation I'd rather avoid for the purposes of this topic.

    Regardless it sounds like we agree on the personality front.

  9. #144
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I said they were opposed. I never said one was a saint and the other the devil. That's interpretation I'd rather avoid for the purposes of this topic.

    Regardless it sounds like we agree on the personality front.
    Opposed in what way though? Emma's not an isolationist. And Jean is not as naive anymore to believe that humans will just allow mutants to inherit the Earth.

    Charles was a creep when Jean and Scott were together in Onslaught.

    And Scott's circumstances changed hence he became edgier. He was still Scott up until Him he then started to become more assertive with Emma's help.

    The X-Men are edgier because the writing has changed in comics in general. That's not Emma's "influence"

    The X-Men killing was there with Storm and Cable and Wolverine well before Emma
    Last edited by ExodusCloak; 07-14-2019 at 07:27 PM.

  10. #145
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    Opposed in what way though? Emma's not an isolationist. And Jean is not as naive anymore to believe that humans will just allow mutants to inherit the Earth.

    Charles was a creep when Jean and Scott were together in Onslaught.

    And Scott's circumstances changed hence he became edgier. He was still Scott up until Him he then started to become more assertive with Emma's help.

    The X-Men are edgier because the writing has changed in comics in general. That's not Emma's "influence"

    The X-Men killing was there with Storm and Cable and Wolverine well before Emma
    Properly answering the first point is beyond my capabilities on a smartphone but i will get to it because itís the most important question.

    You just said Emma influenced Scott to become more assertive, then go on to suggest she had no influence and it was all the writers. Weíre either talking about the meta or we arenít. Conversations are exceedingly difficult when trying to bounce between the two.

    You can argue that Emma is a cause of the change in tone or her prominence was a byproduct of what was already underway, but either way she was impactful to the tone. The difference is, as always, down to interpretation.

  11. #146
    Benefactor / Malefactor H-E-D's Avatar
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    I can't believe I completely failed to derail this thread into a den of crackshipping.

  12. #147
    EMMA WAS RIGHT! darkalamator's Avatar
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    Why should Emma want to be friends with someone that used the PF to reduce her to diappers when they first met and then to bully her mind looking for the most damaging secrets??
    Primum vivere deindre philosophare

  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkalamator View Post
    Why should Emma want to be friends with someone that used the PF to reduce her to diappers when they first met and then to bully her mind looking for the most damaging secrets??
    Yeah, I fail to see why exactly these two should want to be friends.

    Emma and Jean just don't like each other. They probably hold respect for the other, but they're never going to be good friends. I don't see the harm in them not being friends.

  14. #149
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Bendis and Hopeless did issues where Jean and Emma got along so yes, they can be friends.
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  15. #150
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    Bendis and Hopeless did issues where Jean and Emma got along so yes, they can be friends.
    Bendis wrote a Jean that never experienced the trauma that Emma caused. The two had a different dynamic bc Bendis Jean was essentially a different person. Emma hated her at first until she realized she wasnt a threat. Jean didnt have much opinion of the stuff Emma did bc it didnt happen to her. The reasons why they shouldnt be friends wasnt a factor for those two

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