Can Jean & Emma Be Friends?

[ExodusCloak]

She either influenced him or she didn't. You've already pointed out that she did so I'm not sure what we're arguing about. The fact that he influenced her as well has nothing to do with it. Besides, isn't the boilerplate argument with Frosties that Emma was heroic long before NXM?

Remember the basic premise I laid out. The X-Men, and specifically Scott would not have behaved the same way with Jean in the role Emma filled as it actually played out. I think you're making a compelling case that's actually true by pointing out how Emma's behavior influenced Scott's choices through actions that don't fit Jean's methods as previously established.

You're on questionable ground if you continue to argue that Jean and Emma would have gone about things in the same way, or even with the same intent. They are radically different people with radically different values. This isn't even debatable.

You haven't addressed the fact that there is a period between Morrison's run up to Messiah Complex with Scott acting like Scott.

Everyone influences everyone. But the situation, the no more mutants, purifiers thing affected Cyclops the most. Emma had been present for two years prior to that with not much change in leadership. He was the good cop and she was the bad cop

When Emma pulled back her influence and took a back seat that is when he became the de facto leader and created X-force. That was his first step into that sort of radical leadership.

Emma was good before NXM. She became even MORE heroic during this period. Which is what made a portion of people complain.

Your whole hypothesis falls apart. As soon as Emma takes a back seat that's when X-force is created. That is just plain fact

Scott made those choices by himself. That was all him. He chose that path. He says so. He takes full responsibility. This has been stated numerous times

[ExodusCloak]

I don't know what this term means...

Every character that is outdated will be updated accordingly.

Scott wants to kick out Refugees Emma is the one that lets them in. That's role reversal

[Hizashi]

Jean befriending Emma? hell no

Capable. Capable of befriending Emma. That means she has the capacity to do so, that she can find it in herself to forgive Emma their interpersonal issues. I'm not advocating that they actually become friends.

Watch me then. #neverforget

People still use the Morrison run to justify screwing over Jean. so no forgeting for me

Who has used Morrison's run to "justify screwing over Jean"? What does that mean?

[Ulfhammer]

Colleagues? Coworkers? Teammates? Yeah, anything but friends. They can get along from time to time, but I agree that their relationship is more interesting when there's some adversarial tension between them. And that doesn't necessarily have to involve Scott - although it can.

As pointed out by others, I think first by PrezValentine, Jean is capable of befriending Emma, but that doesn't mean that they should be friends.

I remain highly skeptical. One of the key components of friendship is mutual respect. I just don't see it. Again, it's not their history (which is bad enough on it's own), it's them. They don't respect each other's basic philosophies. There's ample evidence of this. At best their foxhole buddies and even that is debatable if the stakes aren't high enough.

[Hizashi]

I remain highly skeptical. One of the key components of friendship is mutual respect. I just don't see it. Again, it's not their history (which is bad enough on it's own), it's them. The don't respect each other's basic philosophies. There's ample evidence of this. At best their foxhole buddies and even that is debatable if the stakes aren't high enough.

Agreed. I mean that I can see Jean making an attempt at friendship, but that's as far as I can see that tangent going. I wouldn't have Emma even entertain the notion.

[spirit2011]

Agreed. I mean that I can see Jean making an attempt at friendship, but that's as far as I can see that tangent going. I wouldn't have Emma even entertain the notion.

Jean would only ever do it to screw over Emma. Jean isn't a rug like everyone thinks

[Hizashi]

Jean would only ever do it to screw over Emma. Jean isn't a rug like everyone thinks

I disagree. If she had an issue with Emma that she wanted to deal with, she'd do it directly, not by underhandedly offering friendship just to screw over Emma.

[spirit2011]

Capable. Capable of befriending Emma. That means she has the capacity to do so, that she can find it in herself to forgive Emma their interpersonal issues. I'm not advocating that they actually become friends.

She had it before Emma screwed over her. Emma has to ask for forgiveness and she would never do that.
People often forget that Jean has a strong personality

Who has used Morrison's run to "justify screwing over Jean"? What does that mean?

Everyone that think Jean is a bad influence on Scott

[ExodusCloak]

I disagree. If she had an issue with Emma that she wanted to deal with, she'd do it directly, not by underhandedly offering friendship just to screw over Emma.

She also asked Emma to join the X-Men at the beginning of Morrison's X-Men and worked with her in the Jean Grey solo series. Where Emma actually tried to help her.

[Hizashi]

She had it before Emma screwed over her. Emma has to ask for forgiveness and she would never do that.
People often forget that Jean has a strong personality

I agree that Emma wouldn't ask Jean for forgiveness. I think the people that have most forgotten Jean's strong personality are Marvel themselves.

Everyone that think Jean is a bad influence on Scott

Those people are just as wrong as the ones who think that Scott is a bad influence on Jean. The truth is that this issue is more complicated than "that character is wholly responsible for the bad things that are happening to my fave!".

[PsychoEFrost]

Jean would only ever do it to screw over Emma. Jean isn't a rug like everyone thinks

....what?

You seem to have an issue with Jean of all people at a fundamental level. Being a decent person doesn't mean being a "rug". If you really think that Jean is like that, then you need to re-read her entire history.

[spirit2011]

I disagree. If she had an issue with Emma that she wanted to deal with, she'd do it directly, not by underhandedly offering friendship just to screw over Emma.

Jean isn't above jokes

[ExodusCloak]

Jean isn't above jokes

I can see Jean dropping a dad joke.

[spirit2011]

....what?

You seem to have an issue with Jean of all people at a fundamental level. Being a decent person doesn't mean being a "rug". If you really think that Jean is like that, then you need to re-read her entire history.

I have problem with people thinking Jean is a major idiot that would be friends with the woman that worked to destroy her marriage and never felt sorry for anything bad she ever did to her(Jean)
being a decent person has nothing to do with being a rug that everyone step over and then later she is all alright with her.
She isn't a saint

[Hizashi]

Jean isn't above jokes

She'd offer friendship and then say "psych, gotcha!"? Is... is that what you're saying? That isn't exactly screwing someone over.