Black Widow *Spoilers*

[Hellion]

Since nobody could be arsed, here's a thread for people who wanna discuss the movie and utilize spoilers to their heart's content.

With that said...

The running gag about superhero poses was great. Julia Louis-Dreyfus chewed scenery like the goddess she is. I was a little disappointed that we didn't see Red Guardian do much. I get that the joke with him is that he's kind of a half-assed or deadbeat dad/superhero/what-have-you, but if he is truly a super soldier on par with Captain America, then I felt they could have at least shown us that.

[Username taken]

Yeah, I actually wanted to see the Red Guardian actually showoff some of his abilities. To be honest, I absolutely enjoyed virtually every scene with David Harbour in it.

Black Widow was a movie that was very much designed to lay the foundation for the post-Romanov Black Widow era.

The movie was pretty heavy on the child trauma and child trafficking theme. That's always hard to watch considering just how much child trafficking is still very much a thing in the real world.

All in all, I would give it a 7.5/10. It's not one of the top MCU movies but it's a pretty good one.

[godisawesome]

Overall a pretty good film, and in the upper quartile of the massive MCU.

My only issue was Taskmaster, even repackaged and given a new origin story, ending up as basically just a boss fight and a belated way for Natasha to atone for a misdeed. I don’t mind the backstory change or even having Kurylenko play the character… but Kurylenko *can* act, and Taskmaster was sorely lacking in personality. They could have had the general’s daughter play some other character and had Taskmaster be the professional frustrated at her boss’s eccentricities.

[CliffHanger2]

Yeah the whole Taskmaster thing was an issue for me. Making BW do something horrible did make her less sympathetic. Did seem like it was out of character for what we've been shown up till now.

[BeastieRunner]

I was kind of hoping the chemical was going to fail on Tasky (or she was never chemically subjugated so it wouldn't have worked) and she escapes at the end with the ring and other Widow info.

Seemed like the perfect villain for what FalCap Bucky and co setup.

Madame Hydra vs. Clint is gonna be wild.

Anyone feel like Yelena was personality wise more like comic Black Widow?

And anyone notice a lot of the shot blocking was almost cheesecakey but they would pan out to accentuate the female form in more of a way to showcase their femininity as power? Not in an exploitative way? Not sure if that makes sense.

For example, in the opening they focused on the sniper laying prone to show she had hips and was a woman but it pans out a bit to show she is in control. Or focusing on Widows hips but then zooming out a bit on the tracking to show she is commanding the scene with her presence.

It folded nicely with the female empowerment theme and the "poser" gag, slowly turning the gag into a visually metaphor.

[AnakinFlair]

What I want now is like a Marvel One-Shot, or even a limited series, detailing Natasha's initial meeting with Clint, the attack on the safe house, and her defection to SHIELD. It was nice to finally get the backstory on Budapest, but now I actually want to SEE it.

One thing that bugged me at the end- Yelena wrapped all of the vials of Red Dust around a flashbang to make a bomb to free the other Widows. Yet after it detonated, there just happened to be two intact vials left- one for Natasha to use against Taskmaster, and one to give to Melena to make more. That was way too convenient. Yelena should have, at least, put two vials into one of her many pockets to justify them still being there later on.

What is everyone's thought on the Taskmaster twist? I have no real attachment to the character, so I didn't mind. But I'm seeing a lot of hate for that decision.

[AnakinFlair]

Yeah the whole Taskmaster thing was an issue for me. Making BW do something horrible did make her less sympathetic. Did seem like it was out of character for what we've been shown up till now.

Actually, her supposedly killing Antonia was alluded to all the way back in the first Avengers movie. When Natasha is interrogating Loki, she talks about having red in her ledger and wanting to wipe it out:

Natasha Romanoff: Before I worked for SHIELD, I, uh... Well, I made a name for myself. I have a very specific skill set. I didn't care who I used it for, or on. I got on SHIELD's radar in a bad way. Agent Barton was sent to kill me. He made a different call.

Loki: And what will you do if I vow to spare him?

Natasha Romanoff: Not let you out.

Loki: [smiles] No, but I like this. Your world in the balance, and you bargain for one man.

Natasha Romanoff: Regimes fall every day. I tend not to weep over that, I'm Russian... or was.

Loki: And what are you now?

Natasha Romanoff: It's really not that complicated. I've got red in my ledger, I'd like to wipe it out.

Loki: Can you? Can you wipe out that much red? Dreykov's daughter, Sao Paulo, the hospital fire?

So this was actually payoff for an off-handed comment made years ago, and I felt this story showed how far she had come from the woman who would sacrifice a child to kill one man, to the woman who was willing to sacrifice herself to save her friend.

[chicago_bastard]

As much as I liked the opening credits they actually spoiled the twist for me. I mean they were making such a mystery about Taskmaster's identity beforehand and then the name of a known actress pops up in the opening credits that was kept completely secret in all the marketing, it was totally obvious to me she would be Taskmaster and later when Dreykov's daughter was mentioned it wasn't hard to make that connection. Didn't ruin the movie for me but they could have easily avoided that if they had done it like Fincher's Seven that left Kevin Spacey's name out of the title sequence so that his appearance in the final act came as a surprise.

But I guess general audiences didn't even make the connection so Marvel wasn't bothered.

[Tofali]

Connecting a comment by Loki about Natasha's past and making it Taskmaster's backstory will forever be convoluted

[KabutoRyder]

What I want now is like a Marvel One-Shot, or even a limited series, detailing Natasha's initial meeting with Clint, the attack on the safe house, and her defection to SHIELD. It was nice to finally get the backstory on Budapest, but now I actually want to SEE it.

One thing that bugged me at the end- Yelena wrapped all of the vials of Red Dust around a flashbang to make a bomb to free the other Widows. Yet after it detonated, there just happened to be two intact vials left- one for Natasha to use against Taskmaster, and one to give to Melena to make more. That was way too convenient. Yelena should have, at least, put two vials into one of her many pockets to justify them still being there later on.

What is everyone's thought on the Taskmaster twist? I have no real attachment to the character, so I didn't mind. But I'm seeing a lot of hate for that decision.

Things I loved about Tasky...

Was a beast.

Loved the HUD feeding the data to 'him'.

It wasn't Natasha's mother. I know I couldn't have been the only one thinking that.

Things I did not like about Tasky...

Ultimately a let down.

'Him' being the bad guys' kid. No issue with gender swapping him just didn't like the reveal. Heck I'd rather him have stayed masked up the whole movie.



I love Yelena. To me this was her movie. I need more Florence Pugh in my life. Cannot wait to see what more she does in the MCU. Wonder what kind of fight Valentina is trying to start.

I got enough Red Guardian as I cared for. I was fine with him being washed up before we see him even get started and always trying to make it about him.

The 'No Kill Pheromones' thing though....ugh

[chicago_bastard]

I was a little disappointed that we didn't see Red Guardian do much. I get that the joke with him is that he's kind of a half-assed or deadbeat dad/superhero/what-have-you, but if he is truly a super soldier on par with Captain America, then I felt they could have at least shown us that.

I think that's the point, he only believes he is on par with Cap but it's basically a delusion. He pretty much gets called out for it in his first scene in movie's present day.

I wouldn't be surprised if he never had these glory days he constantly refers to. Maybe most of his assignments were spy work like the Ohio gig and he never became a public figure, that would also explain why he was never mentioned when super soldiers were discussed, especially in the Sam/Bucky series. I mean he normally should be on Zemo's radar if he were publicly known.

Anyone feel like Yelena was personality wise more like comic Black Widow?

Hm I didn't get that at all. Which character traits do you mean?

616 Natasha isn't as quippy and she loves doing a pose.

And anyone notice a lot of the shot blocking was almost cheesecakey but they would pan out to accentuate the female form in more of a way to showcase their femininity as power? Not in an exploitative way? Not sure if that makes sense.

For example, in the opening they focused the sniper laying prone to show she had hips and was a woman but it pans out a bit to show she is in control. Or focusing on Widows hips but then zooming out a bit on the tracking to show she is commanding the scene with her presence.

It folded nicely with the female empowerment theme and the "poser" gag, slowly turning the gag into a visually metaphor.

That's an interesting take. I'll watch out for that in my next viewing.

The 'No Kill Pheromones' thing though....ugh

That's directly taken from Natasha's comic book origin though.

[KabutoRyder]

That's directly taken from Natasha's comic book origin though.

Ah, word..? Well...in the comics it may well get over, but that's one of those things when translating to the screen you may wanna tweak on some levels.

LOVED Yelena's pose comments as well.

[Ying Ko]

So who else is gonna be on Val's Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers apart from U.S. Agent and Black Widow II?

I'd guess the white Vision and Ghost at least.

[I'm a Fish]

Wish the action had less quick-cuts.

[Conn Seanery]

LOVED Yelena's pose comments as well.

Me too. That landing pose has been bugging me for a long, long time, and not just in MCU films. When Yelena started making fun of it at the gas station I was like YES!!