View Poll Results: What would you give this issue?

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  1. #16
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    Ares died in the first issue of Wilson's run. He essentially had Grail kill him and it somehow caused the changes in the gods and the disappearance of the Amazons. Ares was reborn blond & confused.
    He died though? I thought he just got set free.
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  2. #17
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    The story is finally going somewhere, but I don't really know how to feel about Grail being involved. Grail never really clicked with most people, but DC seems determined to push her as a WW villain. She might work better as an antagonist for another character.
    If Diana is a champion of freedom, as in the Golden Age, Grail would seem her natural enemy, being a 'goddess of Anti-life'. The problem comes in keeping that relevant in a WW story, and that is where writers usually drop the ball, using Grail. What are the climax-building and game-changing consequences for Earth, if Grail succeeds in lobotomizing all sentient life in the universe - that's the Anti-life Equation - or just on Earth? What is the situation, if Wonder Woman fails to stop her? When grail shows up, what is the big, terrible 'uh-oh' thing is it that we fear she will do?

    The problem with Grail is the Anti-life Equation, which most of us don't have even the remotest understanding of. We literally don't know what AE is, what problem it should be for Diana, or why we should care? The AE doesn't have an impact on WW fans, generally, and that is the only relevance Grail has, besides being a violent, power-hungry Amazon and Darkseid flunky. The problem with Grail is the AE, which most of us don't care about.

    The other problem is that Wonder Woman's role, since World War II, is no longer well-defined. What is she doing here? Who is she here to fight? What mission is threatened by her enemies? Is she just a female Perseus or Hercules? What is she doing, here or anywhere? We don't know.

    That's a shame, because, if some even modestly skilled writer made clear how Grail's ambitions, subduing all intelligent life...everywhere, put her in direct conflict with everything Wonder Woman and the Amazons are about, ..the WW comic would finally have its classic archenemy.

    I look forward to seeing which super-villaines, Cheetah or Grail, best fits the archenemy profile for WW.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 07-18-2019 at 01:48 AM.
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  3. #18
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    That's a shame, because, if some even modestly skilled writer made clear how Grail's ambitions, subduing all intelligent life...everywhere, put her in direct conflict with everything Wonder Woman and the Amazons are about, ..the WW comic would finally have its classic archenemy.

    I look forward to seeing which super-villaines, Cheetah or Grail, best fits the archenemy profile for WW.
    When it comes to archenemies, they are not created. They are built and developed. It's the stuff of tradition and mythology. There is really no particular reason why the Joker or Lex Luthor should be the arch-enemies of Batman or Superman, except that they have been used for so long and share so much history as antagonists.

    Cheetah can certainly fit as Diana's archenemy. So can Paula von Gunther or her modern counterpart Veronica Cale. Ares can also be one, though he is more of a Two-Face guy—he has one great story. Doctor Psycho would definitely also be a good candidate. Heck, you could make a strong case for Doctor Poison as well.

    What's missing isn't good candidates. What's missing is putting in the long concerted effort.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #19
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    When it comes to archenemies, they are not created. They are built and developed. It's the stuff of tradition and mythology. There is really no particular reason why the Joker or Lex Luthor should be the arch-enemies of Batman or Superman, except that they have been used for so long and share so much history as antagonists.

    Cheetah can certainly fit as Diana's archenemy. So can Paula von Gunther or her modern counterpart Veronica Cale. Ares can also be one, though he is more of a Two-Face guy—he has one great story. Doctor Psycho would definitely also be a good candidate. Heck, you could make a strong case for Doctor Poison as well.

    What's missing isn't good candidates. What's missing is putting in the long concerted effort.
    I agree with you and say that it's both. There can be no long, fan interest-driven, concerted effort to select her greatest foil, the crusade-ender, ..if Wonder Woman's mission or defining characteristics changes every four or five months.
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  5. #20
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    The solicitation for this issue implied that Diana would learn something life changing about her past. And the hands on the cover made it seem as though Diana was going to meet someone totally different like Nubia, or another one of the gods.

    At first I was disappointed, but I also can’t help but get excited to see how Wilson handles a large cast such as the Amazons and Antiope in particular.

    I read a review that theorized Wilson was better at writing larger casts. Reintroducing Themyscira, could help in that area. There are many Amazons. And that’s what worries me.

    Whenever writers focus on Themyscira, all of the women feel interchangeable to me usually. There have been exceptions of course. I just hope that Wilson can find a way to make me care about one Amazon over another. Right now, they are all just strong warriors with swords... so many swords. Introducing different occupations and weapon variety could go a long way.

    In spite of all of my negativity, I am excited to see Antiope. I remember hating the fact that Antiope left Themyscira during the Perez run. I wanted to know more about her. Hopefully, if she becomes part of the main cast I finally can.

    We’ve seen Empress Hippolyta, but where is Queen Atomia? And the nature of Dimension Chi still confuses me. Are the inhabitants real or not?

    Overall, I enjoyed what this issue brought to the table. The next issue cannot come soon enough.
    Last edited by azurescarf; 07-18-2019 at 04:37 PM.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I feel actually the best way to handle Antipope was that the Banas were also granted immorality. Banas can choice to do this. Just through a task
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  7. #22
    All-New Member Circe's Avatar
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    Finally the story picks up! This was the best issue of WW in a minute lol, the only thing I’ve enjoyed with her recently is the JLD Witching Hour storyline. Very refreshing to see the Amazons again, finally I’m excited to see where it’s going. I feel like this run has been dragging on but is finally catching it’s stride.

  8. #23
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    I’m not sure I read the same issue as most people.

    Diana accomplished little to nothing (again) with Maggie doing the ideas and being told she is worthy to be an Amazon.

    Normally I’d give this 2 stars but I’ve been disappointed so much with this run that I gave it a 1 out of 5.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

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  9. #24
    Spectacular Member VonHammersmark's Avatar
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    I gave it a 1 as well, I don’t get Dimension Chi, I have no idea how Hippolyta created it or how the Empress goes from conquering whole worlds in one issue to being led off a cliff in the next. True to form, Wonder Woman did nothing of consequence, she gets smacked around by everyone and their mother till Maggie or somebody else resolves the conflict. Lather, rinse, repeat.

  10. #25
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Something else that I just realized is that the supporting cast for this run is very inconsistent. Initially we had Aphrodite and Steve Trevor then we got the Zoo Crew, which itself is only a partial remnant of the mythological creatures we saw in their party, then we got Giganta, Maggie, Atlantiades and now Antiope...

    Aphrodite seems to come and go as she pleases and Steve Trevor is just AWOL.
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  11. #26
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    Something else that I just realized is that the supporting cast for this run is very inconsistent. Initially we had Aphrodite and Steve Trevor then we got the Zoo Crew, which itself is only a partial remnant of the mythological creatures we saw in their party, then we got Giganta, Maggie, Atlantiades and now Antiope...

    Aphrodite seems to come and go as she pleases and Steve Trevor is just AWOL.
    I'm not sure I'd say it's inconsistent, rather that it is developing and changing, and partly follows the nature of the characters and the adventures. Wilson isn't discarding Rucka's old supporting cast, she is simply using them as is appropriate, and moving them and other old characters in and out of her narrative.

    And I pretty much view Maggie as an iteration of Golden Age Etta, because later writers have moved Etta far too much away from her roots.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  12. #27
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I'd say it's inconsistent, rather that it is developing and changing, and partly follows the nature of the characters and the adventures. Wilson isn't discarding Rucka's old supporting cast, she is simply using them as is appropriate, and moving them and other old characters in and out of her narrative.
    Doesn't sound appealing to me. Especially the "in and out of her narrative" - sounds like they're being backburnered or going to be jettisoned for yet another new supporting cast. And "as is appropriate" always depends on how much you like the characters that have gone AWOL. If you dislike, appropriate is never using them, if you like them appropriate is using them almost every issue.

    I'm really not into this alternate dimension stuff, I admit. I much prefer the "real world" stories. I mean, it's fine for a one-off, but I certainly don't want to see more.

  13. #28
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Doesn't sound appealing to me. Especially the "in and out of her narrative" - sounds like they're being backburnered or going to be jettisoned for yet another new supporting cast. And "as is appropriate" always depends on how much you like the characters that have gone AWOL. If you dislike, appropriate is never using them, if you like them appropriate is using them almost every issue.

    I'm really not into this alternate dimension stuff, I admit. I much prefer the "real world" stories. I mean, it's fine for a one-off, but I certainly don't want to see more.
    I think you're reading more into my words than I intended. As far as I can tell, Wilson hasn't jettisoned or backburnered any character. What she has done is introduced the supporting characters she needed, used them as long as it was sensible for the story, and then quietly let them go their own way, ready to be used by her—or another writer—again in a later story.

    Yes, Wilson has used a lot of supporting cast, but that's also because she decided that she wanted to bring back as much of Wonder Woman's history as possible. And a lot of people here have called for the return of the Amazons. Guess what, done right that will require fleshing out a lot of characters.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #29
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I'm not sure I'd say it's inconsistent, rather that it is developing and changing, and partly follows the nature of the characters and the adventures. Wilson isn't discarding Rucka's old supporting cast, she is simply using them as is appropriate, and moving them and other old characters in and out of her narrative.

    And I pretty much view Maggie as an iteration of Golden Age Etta, because later writers have moved Etta far too much away from her roots.
    I'm fine with Wilson developing her own supporting cast, that doesn't bother me at all. I'm more concerned with how she's using her own supporting cast. In the first arc (the one with Ares) Steve Trevor was a supporting cast member. He was given a lot of panel time and was integral to the plot. Yet now he hasn't made an appearance in like, 10 issues at least (and I'm talking about the real Steve Trevor, not a fake). Keep in mind the problem isn't that Steve Trevor isn't present, but rather we're never given a reason why he isn't. If he said "I'm going deep under cover angel" it would be less jarring, but as of now, we're not given any reason why he's absent from her party. Aphrodite has been particularly bad at this as well (maybe because she's too powerful?) She appears and disappears seemingly randomly.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonHammersmark View Post
    I gave it a 1 as well, I don’t get Dimension Chi, I have no idea how Hippolyta created it or how the Empress goes from conquering whole worlds in one issue to being led off a cliff in the next. True to form, Wonder Woman did nothing of consequence, she gets smacked around by everyone and their mother till Maggie or somebody else resolves the conflict. Lather, rinse, repeat.
    Exactly.

    I mean, at what point does Diana face death by meekly holding hands with somebody like some 1950’s Disney Princess?

    Superman/Wonder Woman was godawful IMO, but at least when it happened there it was as she was blowing her enemies to hell, not frozen like a deer in the headlight.

    And people gave this 4 stars?
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    “The very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.” - the 4th Doctor

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