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  1. #61
    Incredible Member Captain Nash's Avatar
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    What to do with a problem like: Beast. I picked this one because my kneejerk reaction for the last few years is to just kill him off, and I wanted to challenge myself to come up with a way for him to really be salvaged. IMHO he's too far gone at this point to turn around on his own or "be the hero" in one action and be accepted and have his many recent past mistakes forgiven. Why he even was allowed be anywhere in Dissassembled is beyond me. But I digress....the point is to try and fix him.

    First Step: Exile. He's got to go. He's too morally compromised with playing god, albeit humbly, that for a time he can no longer be associated with the X-Men. And the Avengers feel the same, and will not accept him either. Both teams, for the most part, cut off contact with him - I could see Wonder Man, Iceman and Angel still remaining friends with him.

    Second Step: Now that he's on his own he's free to continue his projects at his own pace, with good intent, but without the resources or help that the X-Men or Avengers would be able to offer. Though his name alone may buy him some clout with civilians, it won't be as much as if he were a member of either team.

    Third Step: For a few years (our time, but at least a year or two of Marvel time)he would continuine his projects through monies earned based on his fame as a scientist, sometimes failing in those projects and sometimes not. He would eventually come to realize that despite any project successes it's empty if the very people he considered friends and teammates are not supporting him. So he, for the most part, abandons the projects and attempts to reconnect with the X-Men, showing them that he's changed. For the most part, they are suspect and deny to repeal his exile. There would be some few who would be supportive and associate with him outside of X-Men oriented situations.

    Fourth Step: Rebuked by his friends and having given up on many of his projects, he could choose to go down an even darker path or seek higher moral ground. Since this is a story of redemption he chooses the later - his name and degree get him a teaching job at a human-based university. While there he struggles at times to want to be more than "just" a teacher (there's a point to that being in quotes). At times he considers being a street level crime fighter like Spider-Man, the only problem is that the most obvious place to start is the university and the city/town it's in. He starts out on this path, scaring off muggers or thieves, but when one incident almost pushes him to far against the criminal, he realizes that the common criminal already has plenty of heroes whose job it is to be the crimefighters. That becoming violent against a criminal, with his mutant strength, would only serve to push him over and edge he could not walk back from. So he realizes that teachers are also heroes - not "just" heroes. And finally accepts his place as a teacher. This step would take another (1-2 Marvel Universe years, preferably 2 years at least).

    Fifth Step: After a time, some of the X-Men and Avengers take note of how he is doing and eventually become more friendly with him. As time goes on they come to see he has truly redeemed himself and invite him back to the teams, as a teacher and superhero first and second most, and as their resident medical expert and scientist, but with a warning that there will be more limits he cannot exceed again, and they will be watching. And he chooses to go back to the X-Men, his true family. Not an entirely happy ending, but I think so much damage has been done to the character that you can't have a 100% happy ending here. Also despite that this could take a good 100-150 issues of a series, the lines he has crossed in the last 10 years require time to fix (or mostly fix)
    Viva la ResurreXion!!!!

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member PsychoEFrost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nash View Post
    What to do with a problem like: Beast. I picked this one because my kneejerk reaction for the last few years is to just kill him off, and I wanted to challenge myself to come up with a way for him to really be salvaged. IMHO he's too far gone at this point to turn around on his own or "be the hero" in one action and be accepted and have his many recent past mistakes forgiven. Why he even was allowed be anywhere in Dissassembled is beyond me. But I digress....the point is to try and fix him.

    First Step: Exile. He's got to go. He's too morally compromised with playing god, albeit humbly, that for a time he can no longer be associated with the X-Men. And the Avengers feel the same, and will not accept him either. Both teams, for the most part, cut off contact with him - I could see Wonder Man, Iceman and Angel still remaining friends with him.

    Second Step: Now that he's on his own he's free to continue his projects at his own pace, with good intent, but without the resources or help that the X-Men or Avengers would be able to offer. Though his name alone may buy him some clout with civilians, it won't be as much as if he were a member of either team.

    Third Step: For a few years (our time, but at least a year or two of Marvel time)he would continuine his projects through monies earned based on his fame as a scientist, sometimes failing in those projects and sometimes not. He would eventually come to realize that despite any project successes it's empty if the very people he considered friends and teammates are not supporting him. So he, for the most part, abandons the projects and attempts to reconnect with the X-Men, showing them that he's changed. For the most part, they are suspect and deny to repeal his exile. There would be some few who would be supportive and associate with him outside of X-Men oriented situations.

    Fourth Step: Rebuked by his friends and having given up on many of his projects, he could choose to go down an even darker path or seek higher moral ground. Since this is a story of redemption he chooses the later - his name and degree get him a teaching job at a human-based university. While there he struggles at times to want to be more than "just" a teacher (there's a point to that being in quotes). At times he considers being a street level crime fighter like Spider-Man, the only problem is that the most obvious place to start is the university and the city/town it's in. He starts out on this path, scaring off muggers or thieves, but when one incident almost pushes him to far against the criminal, he realizes that the common criminal already has plenty of heroes whose job it is to be the crimefighters. That becoming violent against a criminal, with his mutant strength, would only serve to push him over and edge he could not walk back from. So he realizes that teachers are also heroes - not "just" heroes. And finally accepts his place as a teacher. This step would take another (1-2 Marvel Universe years, preferably 2 years at least).

    Fifth Step: After a time, some of the X-Men and Avengers take note of how he is doing and eventually become more friendly with him. As time goes on they come to see he has truly redeemed himself and invite him back to the teams, as a teacher and superhero first and second most, and as their resident medical expert and scientist, but with a warning that there will be more limits he cannot exceed again, and they will be watching. And he chooses to go back to the X-Men, his true family. Not an entirely happy ending, but I think so much damage has been done to the character that you can't have a 100% happy ending here. Also despite that this could take a good 100-150 issues of a series, the lines he has crossed in the last 10 years require time to fix (or mostly fix)
    Now this is an interesting thought exercise. Pick a character you hate or greatly dislike, then rehab them. No killing or banning or shunting off into everworld. They have to stay in 616. I think it would say a lot about the poster.
    "It is the truest mark of heroism: to give your life aware that those you save will never know."

  3. #63
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    From the Gen X announcement interview:

    For years, the Xavier Institute has been a sort of safe haven for young mutants. Society rejects them, they go to the Institute, and then they're taught how to control their powers, usually in hopes of eventually becoming X-Men. But it's dangerous. People die -- sometimes by the busload. So when we take a second to be honest about it, maybe not all mutants are cut out to be X-Men? They're not all going to be Cyclops, or Storm, or Jean Grey. And some young mutants have powers that just don't make sense in a battle situation (I'm lookin' at you, Cypher). So, in the interest of keeping more of their young alive, the Institute's thinking it's time for a restructure.

    Now in Central Park, the rechristened Xavier Institute has taken this move as an opportunity to re-evaluate their students, internally dividing the student body into three classes: The Next Generation of X-Men, the Next Generation of Ambassadors, and the Next Generation of... well, lovable losers. These are our Gen Xers. And they include mutants with benign powers, mutants who are considered liabilities during missions and/or battles, and mutants with personalities ill-fitting of an ambassador. They're basically all mutants who just don't seem to fit in anywhere -- including the very school where they were promised they would fit in.
    LMAOOOOOOOOO how did i miss that initially

  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Also someone pwetty pwease find a solution to fix Stabs McKenzie who keeps calling herself X-23. Identity theft isn’t a joke.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nash View Post
    What to do with a problem like: Beast. I picked this one because my kneejerk reaction for the last few years is to just kill him off, and I wanted to challenge myself to come up with a way for him to really be salvaged. IMHO he's too far gone at this point to turn around on his own or "be the hero" in one action and be accepted and have his many recent past mistakes forgiven. Why he even was allowed be anywhere in Dissassembled is beyond me. But I digress....the point is to try and fix him.

    First Step: Exile. He's got to go. He's too morally compromised with playing god, albeit humbly, that for a time he can no longer be associated with the X-Men. And the Avengers feel the same, and will not accept him either. Both teams, for the most part, cut off contact with him - I could see Wonder Man, Iceman and Angel still remaining friends with him.

    Second Step: Now that he's on his own he's free to continue his projects at his own pace, with good intent, but without the resources or help that the X-Men or Avengers would be able to offer. Though his name alone may buy him some clout with civilians, it won't be as much as if he were a member of either team.

    Third Step: For a few years (our time, but at least a year or two of Marvel time)he would continuine his projects through monies earned based on his fame as a scientist, sometimes failing in those projects and sometimes not. He would eventually come to realize that despite any project successes it's empty if the very people he considered friends and teammates are not supporting him. So he, for the most part, abandons the projects and attempts to reconnect with the X-Men, showing them that he's changed. For the most part, they are suspect and deny to repeal his exile. There would be some few who would be supportive and associate with him outside of X-Men oriented situations.

    Fourth Step: Rebuked by his friends and having given up on many of his projects, he could choose to go down an even darker path or seek higher moral ground. Since this is a story of redemption he chooses the later - his name and degree get him a teaching job at a human-based university. While there he struggles at times to want to be more than "just" a teacher (there's a point to that being in quotes). At times he considers being a street level crime fighter like Spider-Man, the only problem is that the most obvious place to start is the university and the city/town it's in. He starts out on this path, scaring off muggers or thieves, but when one incident almost pushes him to far against the criminal, he realizes that the common criminal already has plenty of heroes whose job it is to be the crimefighters. That becoming violent against a criminal, with his mutant strength, would only serve to push him over and edge he could not walk back from. So he realizes that teachers are also heroes - not "just" heroes. And finally accepts his place as a teacher. This step would take another (1-2 Marvel Universe years, preferably 2 years at least).

    Fifth Step: After a time, some of the X-Men and Avengers take note of how he is doing and eventually become more friendly with him. As time goes on they come to see he has truly redeemed himself and invite him back to the teams, as a teacher and superhero first and second most, and as their resident medical expert and scientist, but with a warning that there will be more limits he cannot exceed again, and they will be watching. And he chooses to go back to the X-Men, his true family. Not an entirely happy ending, but I think so much damage has been done to the character that you can't have a 100% happy ending here. Also despite that this could take a good 100-150 issues of a series, the lines he has crossed in the last 10 years require time to fix (or mostly fix)
    This is all pretty good, but frankly, I don't think you should go that far. I'd simply have him apologize to the X-men, and to Cyclops specially, admitting he was a dick to him, and offering help moving forward. The problem is current editorial would probably never accept that, because Cyclops must be WROOOONG.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member CRaymond's Avatar
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    It’s funny, cause I’d have Hank, Kurt and Emma run the Institute.

  7. #67
    Fantastic Member mikelmcknight72's Avatar
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    At this point, it seems obvious that some sort of continuity tweak or reality warp is coming. I'd say simply retcon out all the OOC crap, and reset his appearance and characterization to what it was before the Morrison era. I miss my fun-loving, bouncing, intelligent, kind Beast. While they are at it, reset Simon as well. Bring back one of the funnest platonic bromances in the 616. Heck, how about a new unity squad with them it in their classic characterizations?

    Honestly, some characters have been so screwed over by OOC writing that I'd settle for an editorial note stating that no explanation will be provided or explored. Instead, they are simply pretending all the OOC stuff never happened.

  8. #68
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    .It took nothing away from any x-man...
    Apparently you've never read any X-Position ever, because MULTIPLE X-Book editors (Paniccia, JDW, etc.) have outright said that they can't use certain characters because it would mean taking up roster spots for OTHER (usually the Claremont/Byrne/Lee squad) characters. So yes, every book a writer decides to use Logan on — whether it's a team book or one of these one-offs — is VERY MUCH a book where they won't be using someone else. That those two one-offs are books written FOR Logan IS EXACTLY PART OF THE PROBLEM when he's going to end up appearing in half the X-Line. I'd love to see Cap and Cyclops forced to team up on a book as the respective leaders of their groups, and because of the bad blood of AvX. Or hell, Blade and Jubilee could be fun because of the personality clash. All you need to set it up is have the vampires Blade dealing with be connected to the time Jubilee was undead.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!


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  9. #69
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    First: I'd ban any major X-Men storyline being an extinction event. Terrigen mists, Decimation, Vaccine, Legacy Virus... All of that has been DONE TO DEATH.

    Second: I'd deemphasize Wolverine and Cyclops. Maybe we take a really good look - credibly - at the different leadership styles of Cyclops, Storm, Jean, and Nightcrawler. One doesn't have to run the show all the time. It makes more sense for the choice of leader to be dependent on the situation. Jean was better against Cassandra Nova. Nightcrawler might be better against Saturnyne.

    Third: I'd focus in on the New Mutants/Generation X and focus on their full integration as senior X-Men. Dani and Cannonball are great on the field and somewhat reflective of the Cyclops/Storm dynamic. Jubilee has been woefully neglected for some time. Have her step it up and maybe focus in on how she works as a wild card when it is time to improvise on the fly. (So... She's more like Gambit in that respect.)

    The male Generation X members would all be resurrected and a moratorium would be placed on killing any of them pointlessly and off-panel.

    I'd focus in on the destructive nature of Jubilee's powers and show how fine-tuned her control has to be... and place her in a focused storyline where there's no choice. She HAS to pull off the win with real stakes and the writer is not going to cop out by having anyone come to her rescue.

  10. #70
    Extraordinary Member ExodusCloak's Avatar
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    What do with a problem like: Wallflower

    So Laurie Collins is my most despised character. I'm kind of glad she had her arm disintegrated, was shot in the head, cheers up by predator X, exploded by the Sisterhood, turned into a meat sentinel then harpooned by Beast. It's given great enjoyment.

    Anyway, I suppose in the nature of this thread in trying to rehabilitate the character and take them in a new direction.

    I suppose the best place to start with is Revenge.

    Laurie powerset is inherently evil and even more morally dubious then telepaths. I'd say let Selene resurrect her. Laurie is spiteful enough, petulant enough to get revenge against her former classmates.

    Have her infiltrate the purifiers using her powers and completely massacre them for the sniper and Predator X. Get them to chew each other's flesh off each other.

    Then let her set her sights on Scott on Emma and the New X-men.

    I don't think Laurie serves as a A list villain but she has motive and well Cyclops couldn't even remember her name. Her anger would be justified. Oh a s Elixir is still alive so there's definitely room for Drama there

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExodusCloak View Post
    What do with a problem like: Wallflower

    So Laurie Collins is my most despised character. I'm kind of glad she had her arm disintegrated, was shot in the head, cheers up by predator X, exploded by the Sisterhood, turned into a meat sentinel then harpooned by Beast. It's given great enjoyment.

    Anyway, I suppose in the nature of this thread in trying to rehabilitate the character and take them in a new direction.

    I suppose the best place to start with is Revenge.

    Laurie powerset is inherently evil and even more morally dubious then telepaths. I'd say let Selene resurrect her. Laurie is spiteful enough, petulant enough to get revenge against her former classmates.

    Have her infiltrate the purifiers using her powers and completely massacre them for the sniper and Predator X. Get them to chew each other's flesh off each other.

    Then let her set her sights on Scott on Emma and the New X-men.

    I don't think Laurie serves as a A list villain but she has motive and well Cyclops couldn't even remember her name. Her anger would be justified. Oh a s Elixir is still alive so there's definitely room for Drama there
    Laurie with no morals definitely has merit. She could potentially be story-breaker powerful if she was a sociopath.


  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    Heh...that's EXACTLY what was done with him post-Messiah Complex. He had a vision that was more aggressive and realistic than Xavier, but more pacifistic than Magneto's and without his supremacist elements. Then came Aaron and a change of editors in the X-office, who decided they wanted things to go back to status quo of Xavier vs Magneto, but putting Cyclops in the Magneto role, of being the VILLAIN and WRONG.
    I don't know if Cyclops is right or if he's wrong.
    I just think that the old opposition Xavier vs Magneto is obsolete. Because both have evolved. Along the years they could have seen what was possible and what their ideals could bring.
    Denying this is doing like all this time hasn't happened.

    Cyclops is less an idealist, ok. It doesn't mean necessarily that what he has in mind could work too. I consider him more as a manager than a visionary.
    Because he hasn't been able to foreseen how much hostility his actions have sparked. And then he hasn't been able to defuse it.
    All his life, he has been a mutant talking to mutants. They have closed ranks around him but they have isolated themselves. And Utopia has been the symbol of this isolation: an island.

    Also, people needn't to be "fixed": they are not machines…
    If I offended you, be assured that it wasn't my intention. English is not my first language.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Alpha View Post
    This is all pretty good, but frankly, I don't think you should go that far. I'd simply have him apologize to the X-men, and to Cyclops specially, admitting he was a dick to him, and offering help moving forward. The problem is current editorial would probably never accept that, because Cyclops must be WROOOONG.
    Beast did nothing wrong and he sure as hell don't need to apologize to the X-men or Cyclops for anything. His intelligence has saved the X-men's collective asses numerous times and it's not a crime to oppose or challenge Cyclops. Hank is probably the least respected X-man and often taken for granted. Need some problem solved, need some cure, just call Hank; he's good for it. Truly Beast should tell the X-men to fuck off and go rejoin the Avengers or go be science professor or anything that will make him happy. Wonder if he still knows magic? I would really like for Beast to join another team, it would serve him well to get away from the X-men.

  14. #74
    hate cant reach you here Harpsikord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrezValentine View Post
    This is a good idea for a thread, by the way, Harpsikord. I guess I don't have as much opportunity to say this, but I always appreciate the insight you bring to discussions in this place. Even though I'm sure I might have been impolite to you in the past and, for that, I apologize. I'll elaborate on the main topic later.
    If you have, I don't recall, so it's no harm no foul. Also, thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Harp:

    Who would you recruit for Emma’s X-Men? X-Memma? X-Men White?
    This is a very good question! To start, there are three things that are typically ever-present on an X-Men team: a telepath, a teleporter, and an elemental. From there every team needs a tank, but some of these roles can obviously be made to overlap. That said...

    I think that Emma's team would look something like this assuming that I basically have access to whomever I want: Emma herself, Banshee, 616 Blink, Sunfire, Frenzy, Elixir, and Marrow.
    Last edited by Harpsikord; 07-16-2019 at 04:08 AM.

    "I'll always love you, Jean Grey." "I'll always love you too, Scott Summers." - Scott Summers and Jean Grey

  15. #75
    Mighty Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRaymond View Post
    Harp:

    Who would you recruit for Emma’s X-Men? X-Memma? X-Men White?
    Emma and Colossus had an endearing friendship between them, she appreciated his artistic side. I would like to see more interaction between them. It's like watching her with a puppy.


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