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  1. #31
    Traveler of omniverses Thor-Ul's Avatar
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    Yes, the Alan Scott business was a mistake from the begining. But right now, the future of earth-2 depends of whatwill happen in Justice League and Doomsday Clock. Most probably than the Justice Society "official" or "mainstream" (I really don't now how to label them) will be the natives of earth-0, meanwhile earth-2 will be left into alimbofor thetime to come, until some editor give green light to work on the concept again, either to take the new52 earth 2 in a next step, or go back to something more close to the precrisis earth2, as was seen in Thy Kingdom Come.

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    By the gods, I hope so.

    (Also, I need the return of Earth 3, with a new take on it.)
    You, sinner...

    Bendis is already working on that. Check Young Justice soon.
    Last edited by Thor-Ul; 07-17-2019 at 08:11 PM.
    Internet Rule 14: Do not argue with trolls it means they win.

  2. #32
    Fantastic Member mikelmcknight72's Avatar
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    I am not sure why, but I'd like an Earth 3 that is morally inverted AND gender-bent. Maybe Earth 363 or 3-63?

  3. #33
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikelmcknight72 View Post
    Although there were parts of it that we enjoyable early on, the whole direction was a creative blunder. Here's an exploration of the changes around Alan Scott.

    1. De-aging him rendered Jade and Obsidian unusable without substantially changing them. Their loss pissed off their fans, and it meant fewer story possibilities. It also meant one less female character and one less gay male character.
    2. The loss of Obsidian probably led to the decision to make Alan gay. Since there'd never been any in panel indicators that Alan was anything but straight, this pissed off some of his fans. Of course, his boyfriend of Chinese descent gets killed off pretty quicky, so DC probably fielded some "why do you always kill the gay S.O." letters.
    3. The source of Alan's powers changed from the Star Heart to the Green. He also seemed to use energy constructs less. Instead, he seemed to essentially just be a big green flying brick. They did grant him plant control and avatar abilities due to being empowered by the Green.

    They closed down more story avenues than they opened, and they seeming set out to deliberately piss off some readers. Alan may be one of the more extreme examples, but just about all the characters were screwed over. The Garrick marriage as a casualty especially bugged me.
    You seem to be under the impression this was suppose to have been the original members of the JSA.

    The project may have sounded like that in the beginning, but all DC did was borrow some concepts and then gave us something that had nothing in common with the original JSA.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    I liked so much of the Nu52 Earth 2 book. I even liked Talyor's run even though you could tell DC had their hand on his throat for a big chunk of it so I don't blame him for that. The book was really good and fun up until they started setting up Worlds End which was garbage on an epic scale. Probably the worst "event" book I ever started to read.

    My main problem with the old Earth 2 is I am just not a fan of exact copies of others characters so I really don't like seeing Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in JSA stories. I have always liked characters like Jay and Alan more because they are not just copies of Barry and Hal even though they share the same code-names. That was why I really liked some of the new things Earth 2 did like Val Zod Superman, Thomas Wayne Batman, Lois Lane Red Tornado, Khalid Ben-Hassin Dr. Fate, Connor Hawke Red Arrow, and Donna as Fury. I really liked the new Terrance Sloan as Mister 8 and his plotting with alternate version of himself too.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikelmcknight72 View Post
    I've written it many times before, but I'd like the JSA Infinity Earth 2 from Johns' JSA run to return via two ongoing series and a mini.

    All Star Squadron set in WW2
    JSA Infinity set now
    After 1-2 years of giving hints here and there, a 4 or 6 issue mini-series covering how the Golden Age heroes and their spouses are active now, but still have the appearance and vitality of their late 40s/early 50s at most.

    The Infinity Inc legacies would be 20-25 years old. This Earth would essentially be pre-Crisis, so it'd have a retired Superman, a retired Wonder Woman, and a married but now dead Batman & Catwoman. Many of the golden agers would be reserve members, as Atom Smasher, Jade, Obsidian, Power Girl, Huntress and the rest would have be on the team in their place.
    This would be pretty cool.
    And it's not like Prime Earth couldn't have their own JSA. In fact, I think they should, but have the team stop operating after the 50s. Only a few original members like Alan Scott would still be around, but their legacies would live on through the younger generation. Current heroes would be Michael Holt, Jade and Obsidian, Cyclone, Stargirl, Hourman and Jesse Quick etc.
    I'd give the main Earth's team a Black Label book examining their past, called something like JSA: War Tales.
    In the present, Alan Scott would be Checkmate's White King again, Mr Terrific would be either with the Terrifics or the JL (and dating PG), Stargirl would have their own book, Jesse would help Wally protect the Twin Cities while Barry took on a more multiversal role etc.
    Power Girl would serve as the link between both Earths.

    For the classic flavour, I'd have an Earth-2 book much like the revival of All-Star Comics during the 70s. It would be a more idealistic view on superheroes and would follow the originals working alongside the legacy heroes like PG, Huntress, Jade etc.

  6. #36
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    . . . My main problem with the old Earth 2 is I am just not a fan of exact copies of others characters so I really don't like seeing Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman in JSA stories.
    Uh, the Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman who appeared in JSA stories were based on the ORIGINAL VERSIONS from the Golden Age / 1940s.

    THEY weren't the "copies".

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Uh, the Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman who appeared in JSA stories were based on the ORIGINAL VERSIONS from the Golden Age / 1940s.

    THEY weren't the "copies".
    Yup, if anything it was the Earth-1 versions who were the "copies".

  8. #38
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrock Holmes View Post
    Yup, if anything it was the Earth-1 versions who were the "copies".
    I can't agree. Earth-1 versions were what the original versions grew into. Earth-2 versions (when they were actually introduced as separate versions) were later interpretations of original versions.

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I can't agree. Earth-1 versions were what the original versions grew into. Earth-2 versions (when they were actually introduced as separate versions) were later interpretations of original versions.
    But the Earth-2 versions weren't "copies" of the Silver/Bronze Age Earth-1 versions. They were based on the original versions.
    The Earth-1 versions grew out of what the original versions had been, so they weren't exactly "copies" of the Golden Age versions, either.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I can't agree. Earth-1 versions were what the original versions grew into. Earth-2 versions (when they were actually introduced as separate versions) were later interpretations of original versions.
    Given that virtually every other Earth-2 character is exactly the same as the Golden Age version (Robin and Green Arrow & Speedy are the only other heroes I can think of that aren't), whereas the Earth-1 characters are either entirely new or at least rebooted agewise (The Trinity, the above three, Black Canary maybe) to the point that they were at origin then I can'tsee your logic. For instance, in the 60s E2 Robin was a semi-retired hero and partner in a law firm (implicitedly in his 30s or 40s), whereas the E1 Robin was a (pre-)teen just starting out as a rookie hero, I'm sure how you can figure that the E1 version is the "original" and the E2 one is the "copy" or "reinterpretation"?

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But the Earth-2 versions weren't "copies" of the Silver/Bronze Age Earth-1 versions. They were based on the original versions.
    The Earth-1 versions grew out of what the original versions had been, so they weren't exactly "copies" of the Golden Age versions, either.
    I meant that when they did start over in the silver age they changed things around for most of the golden age characters. Green Lantern, Flash, Atom, and Hawkman (even if they were to lazy to change his name) where totally different characters than their golden age counterparts. Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman are the same characters on Earth 2 as they are on Earth 1 just older. To me I was always more interested in the different characters than I was in just the older versions of the ones I see every month in other books.

  12. #42
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    I'm not sure i can say that earth-2 characters "grew into" the earth-1 version of themselves. When the time changes from 50s to 60s there were always something missing about them to me, as stories changed from warrior-like and serious to campy and light and character less mature. Superman and Batman are completely different in Earth 1, Black Canary even has a kid Canary. The later interpretations of Earth 2 were of course, also lacking, for example, Batman havng a child and stopping being Batman. Both Earth 1 and later established Earth 2 are both "copies" in that sense. Only those written by Bill Finger, Jerry Siegel themselves are "original". Bill Finger wrote the last Batman issue in June 1964, and Earth 1 Dick Grayson only officially appeared for the first time in July 1964 in The Brave and the Bold #54.
    Last edited by nhienphan2808; 07-21-2019 at 07:40 PM.

  13. #43
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Unlike Flash, GL, Atom, Hawkman, and the revamped characters, With the Super-Friends characters and Green Arrow had no clear Earth-Two / Earth-One dividing line. I doubt there was a lot of thought put into the continuous characters and their shift. As evidence, I cite the scenes where Barry read old Jay Garrick stories in a comic. If those comics existed, what about Bats, Supes, etc.?

    And unlike some of the Earth-One heroes teaming with their counterparts, Superman didn't come up until a few years into the JLA/JSA crises. Batman took even longer. Comics fans have been arguing this for decades. When did the Earths change for the Trinity? And if a time is decided on, did DC know it at the time? Outside of facts here, any discussion is for fannish interest only Worth having maybe, but never reaching a set conclusion.

  14. #44
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    . . . And unlike some of the Earth-One heroes teaming with their counterparts, Superman didn't come up until a few years into the JLA/JSA crises. Batman took even longer. . .
    Earth-2 Robin first appeared with the JSA in Justice League of America #55 (1967).
    It looks like Earth-2 Superman first was involved in the annual team-ups starting in 1969 (Justice League of America #73).
    The Earth-2 Batman is listed in the GCD as making a cameo appearance in Justice League of America #82 (1970), but I believe it wasn't until Justice League of America #135 (1976) when the JLA and JSA travelled to Earth-S (the Fawcett-based Earth of Captain Marvel/Shazam & family) before Earth-2's Batman was actively involved in a JLA/JSA team-up.

  15. #45
    Constable of Continuity Gero4568's Avatar
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    Pretty sure this was confirmed in Doomsday Clock #10.
    Pull List: Doomsday Clock, Action Comics, Superman, Batman, Flash, Young Justice, Justice League, Harley Quinn, Green Lantern, Hawkman

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