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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    You're certainly not wrong that nothing was ever done with Mrs. Chilton or Aunt Harriet. They are largely forgotten by comic readers. What do you think could have been done with them, especially Harriet?
    Supposedly they got the idea for Aunt Harriet from Aunt Agatha--"Bruce Wayne's Aunt Agatha" in BATMAN 89 (reprinted in BATMAN 233). I liked that story so much I got the back issue. But there's more dimension to Aunt Agatha in those eight pages than in most of the pages devoted to Dick Grayson's Aunt Harriet. For one thing, old Aggie figures out that Bruce and Dick are the Dynamic Duo right off the bat. She has a lot more humour--much like Harriet in the TV show. And on the TV show, Aunt Hattie got mixed up with some of the villains. Madge Blake had a bit of Aunt May's potential for intrigue. They should have certainly filled in some of Harriet's back story--how was she Dick's aunt, what was her relationship to his parents, why didn't she try to get custody of him?

    With Mrs. Chilton, I wanted a reveal that she had a grandson almost the same age as Bruce. Since Joe killed Bruce's dad, it would be interesting if the son of his killer had met Thomas Wayne's son. At the very least, if Mrs. Chilton had come clean to Bruce, it would add some complexity to his desire for revenge--how far would he extend that?
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  2. #32
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Supposedly they got the idea for Aunt Harriet from Aunt Agatha--"Bruce Wayne's Aunt Agatha" in BATMAN 89 (reprinted in BATMAN 233). I liked that story so much I got the back issue. But there's more dimension to Aunt Agatha in those eight pages than in most of the pages devoted to Dick Grayson's Aunt Harriet. For one thing, old Aggie figures out that Bruce and Dick are the Dynamic Duo right off the bat.
    I liked Aunt Agatha, too, but I don't recall her figuring out they were the dynamic duo. She wore a Joker costume to a costume party, saved Batman and Robin, and insisted it was her nephew and his ward in costumes for the party because she couldn't really conceive of Bruce as a competent adult (still viewing him a boy, mostly), as I recall. I'll agree Harriet is blink-and-you-miss-her and utterly forgettable.

    They should have certainly filled in some of Harriet's back story--how was she Dick's aunt, what was her relationship to his parents, why didn't she try to get custody of him?
    I'd have enjoyed that. It's definitely a big, glaring, issue for me.

    At the very least, if Mrs. Chilton had come clean to Bruce, it would add some complexity to his desire for revenge--how far would he extend that?
    I think it would have been interesting to deal with Bruce's emotional fallout from the knowledge. I can't think his desire for revenge would ever encompass the innocent in that era, so that's a no-go for me. Though firing her for withholding information, possibly partially as an excuse because he didn't want the reminder, could happen. I can't recall - was she hired when Bruce was still a child or not?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I liked Aunt Agatha, too, but I don't recall her figuring out they were the dynamic duo. She wore a Joker costume to a costume party, saved Batman and Robin, and insisted it was her nephew and his ward in costumes for the party because she couldn't really conceive of Bruce as a competent adult (still viewing him a boy, mostly), as I recall. I'll agree Harriet is blink-and-you-miss-her and utterly forgettable.
    You're right there. Blame it on a sleepy Sunday morning clouding my memory. It wasn't that she knew they were B&R--it's that seeing them in those costumes, she immediately saw through the disguises and believed they were Bruce and Dick playing dress-up. Which is where the funny comes in.

    I can't recall - was she hired when Bruce was still a child or not?
    I don't recall, either. But one source on the internet says she was his uncle's housekeeper (although such sources can be wrong). That could be the explanation how she came into Bruce's employ.
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  4. #34
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I don't recall, either. But one source on the internet says she was his uncle's housekeeper (although such sources can be wrong). That could be the explanation how she came into Bruce's employ.
    And especially how she could come into his employ without him doing a background check and already knowing she's Joe Chill's mother (since making it a surprise revelation gives it more drama).

    You know talking about Agatha makes me think of Bruce's other pre-COIE relatives. Kinda miss them a little.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-21-2019 at 08:25 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    Anyway, I don't consider Sue a supporting character. She's an equal partner with Ralph and that's what makes their adventures so appealing. I guess when Ralph and Sue appear in other people's stories, then they both become supporting characters.
    I grew up reading Justice League of America the Satellite years. Sue wasn't a regular part of Ralph's adventures with that group. It wasn't until JLA Detroit and JL Europe that she became a 'member' of those groups. I guess for that reason, I always think of her as a supporting character.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Speaking of "Identity Crisis," that was a really bad use of Jean Loring as well.

    Best: Rond Vidar - Brainiac 5's science bud, son of villain Universo, then became a Green Lantern and became involved with and had a kid with Laurel Gand. Not so great things happened to him after that...

    Worst: Terry Berg. Heavy-handed mouthpiece for Winick's agenda. There are better ways to get across a socio/political message than intentionally creating a posterboy.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    I grew up reading Justice League of America the Satellite years. Sue wasn't a regular part of Ralph's adventures with that group. It wasn't until JLA Detroit and JL Europe that she became a 'member' of those groups. I guess for that reason, I always think of her as a supporting character.
    For much of his time in the Satellite Justice League, I'd say Ralph was a supporting character, getting very little development. I once compiled a complete list of all Ralph's appearances and I had to create a special category for all the times he just appears in a group shot stretching his neck--that's often his only role in a story. He has all kinds of abilities, but so many times the artists only had him shoved into the background stretching his neck.

    If you discount all those appearances where he's simply a supporting character or making a one-panel cameo appearance, then you're left with mainly the Elongated Man stories themselves, which were about Ralph and Sue Dibny travelling to different places around the world and discovering some new mystery. And in most of those stories, where Ralph is the star, Sue is his co-star.
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  8. #38
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    For much of his time in the Satellite Justice League, I'd say Ralph was a supporting character, getting very little development. I once compiled a complete list of all Ralph's appearances and I had to create a special category for all the times he just appears in a group shot stretching his neck--that's often his only role in a story. He has all kinds of abilities, but so many times the artists only had him shoved into the background stretching his neck.
    I agree he wasn't used enough there. Or maybe, really, I think he shouldn't have been there. There's one issue where he's complaining about how they haven't had a good mystery in ages, just fights, or something along those lines. I felt that was pretty accurate, and that he wasn't really suited to the team, because it's not about mysteries. He did shine, personality-wise, IMO, during the Ray and Jean wedding story. Failed, because he was trying to face off against Superman and GL (who he thought were fakes, but were just mind-controlled), but I loved the panel where he was going to fight them despite their power. Though come to think of it, his defeat came down to sleep-gas, so that didn't really work, either.
    Ralph.jpg
    Which reminds me Jean's choice of bridesmaids didn't make sense, but that's another story.

    If you discount all those appearances where he's simply a supporting character or making a one-panel cameo appearance, then you're left with mainly the Elongated Man stories themselves, which were about Ralph and Sue Dibny travelling to different places around the world and discovering some new mystery. And in most of those stories, where Ralph is the star, Sue is his co-star.
    I like that idea. Often that was the case. Sometimes, unfortunately, not. I like her being a more active participant, instead of kissing his cheek goodbye and holding his clothes. The sixties them have so much Tommy and Tuppence potential to me (young Tommy and Tuppence - Ralph and Sue's youth is a factor in me thinking of them that way). She could be one-note on shopping, but I want to say that a little later? Not sure. They were both a little flat, given so few pages for each story to work with. But they were so endearing. Though I'd have made her have her own money, rather than having her explicitly spending his (or asking for money whenever she wanted to go shopping, etc. - don't like that).

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Danny Chase from the NTT was awful. What I've read with him in it, I don't think I've ever wanted to punch a fictional character in the face so much.

  10. #40
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Danny Chase from the NTT was awful. What I've read with him in it, I don't think I've ever wanted to punch a fictional character in the face so much.
    That sort of brings up the question of the difference in bad use of a supporting character and a bad supporting character. I'm not sure there's any use of Danny I'd have enjoyed. But I admittedly don't remember him that well. I'm not even sure if technically qualifies as non-hero, since they at least paid lip service to him as a member of the team at some point, didn't they? Was he supporting or just one of the ensemble?

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    It is funny because I think Danny Chase could be great if written better. I would love to see him brought back and aged up to early 20's as an agent of the DEO. Link up all the people with the Chase name as one large extended family with Danny working under Cameron Chase who could be his Aunt. You could also link the Vigilante to Danny as a cousin or uncle since both versions were Adrian Chase and Dorian Chase. I am surprised no writer has played up the Chase family name more already, and linked them up to be honest.

  12. #42
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I am surprised no writer has played up the Chase family name more already, and linked them up to be honest.
    Have Tim Drake and Dinah ever been connected as family? Mind you, both Drake and Chase are fairly common name, so I wouldn't. I was just curious.

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