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  1. #31
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    I really could've done without Korg's joke after Asgard blew up.
    Yea that was a foul ball, if were in keeping with the MLB batting average analogy of the humor in Ragnarok. However, in Korg's defense he's likely seen a lot of world destruction and heard tales of even more. This was not an Eternal making that joke and it didn't stray from the general sincerity of the character from the onset. .$02.

    I as well really enjoyed Thor 3 and it's a shame at this point it's not brought up but the visual aesthetic of that movie and the incorporation of the Kirby pulls, are THE MOST comic book of ANY of the previous MCU movies. You can turn it on, turn the sound off and visually it looks like a silver-age comic. None of the other movies have that going for it. Wakanda had it's own great visual palate but Ragnarok looks as if it was pulled from the page.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerboy View Post
    Not a big fan of Ragnarok as comedy. Dead last on my list of Marvel movies and the very epitome of what people criticize about the MCU and in a movie that had tremendous dramatic potential. But I understand why they did it. The Thor movies were not on the top of the heap of the MCU until they threw in the towel and went for almost total comedy. Not that I am opposed to comedy and like the touches of it in the MCU but the death of an entire race isn't really comedy. But, again, I understand why they are doing it again. Because it worked big time already.
    That's fair. I totally get why it wasn't for everyone.

    As you said, this is about the general audience and, by and large, it was a huge hit. Hemsworth is a brilliant comedian and if this keeps him in the role of Thor for an extended period of time....I'm all for it! Hopefully the stakes are a bit lower so the comedy is easier for people to accept, but it'll probably just be one of those things that isn't for everyone.

  3. #33
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    I mean this completely unironically, i loved Thor: Ragnarok. So much so it came on TV and I watched it again.

    Yes, it's filled with comedy but it's actually one of the very few superhero movies that has real stakes and consequences.

    I won't mind it if they tone down the comedy but its quite clear that Marvel isnt going with the "dark fantasy" elements of Thor, so I don't really have a problem with the tone of Ragnarok continuing.
    Last edited by Username taken; 07-17-2019 at 08:02 AM.
    "Obviously not all conservatives are racists/bigots but all racists/bigots claim to be conservative"- Unknown

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    A lot of people won't be happy, but I don't think Hemsworth stays on as Thor without it being more comedic. I'm ok with it, I thought Ragnarok was fun.
    I agree. It was the best of the solo Thor movies imo. It allowed Hemsworth to expand and grow his comedic timing and his presence was all the better for it in Infinity War, and Endgame. He clearly enjoyed the experience too.

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    It is perhaps worth remembering that Thor: The Dark World was quite high in its joke count. According to the Visu figures it had one every 1m30s. A higher frequency than GotG2! I can only imagine they were not very good jokes because I don’t remember laughing much.
    ďAnd I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.Ē ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member Robotman's Avatar
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    I really didn’t enjoy Ragnarok. After the two Guardians of the Galaxy films I just felt burned out on the comedy superhero genre. Yeah it had dramatic moments but it was hard to take them seriously when every other line preceding them was a joke. It’s like a Joss Whedon movie turned to 11.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidfresh512 View Post
    I agree. It was the best of the solo Thor movies imo. It allowed Hemsworth to expand and grow his comedic timing and his presence was all the better for it in Infinity War, and Endgame. He clearly enjoyed the experience too.
    His enjoyment is huge. We need some continuity in the Avengers as the parts change or it could feel disjointed. Him staying on for the long term is great for everyone.

    Everyone I know, even tepid MCU fans, laughed through the movie and loved it once it came on Netflix. That's anecdotal, but it seems to be the majority opinion.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    I really didn’t enjoy Ragnarok. After the two Guardians of the Galaxy films I just felt burned out on the comedy superhero genre. Yeah it had dramatic moments but it was hard to take them seriously when every other line preceding them was a joke. It’s like a Joss Whedon movie turned to 11.
    Except that Avengers has a far higher joke count than any of these movies so perhaps not? The only movie higher than Avengers is Homecoming and perhaps when it gets counted Far From Home. So Ragnarok and the GotG movies are turned down not up.
    ďAnd I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.Ē ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  9. #39
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theleviathan View Post
    His enjoyment is huge. We need some continuity in the Avengers as the parts change or it could feel disjointed. Him staying on for the long term is great for everyone.

    Everyone I know, even tepid MCU fans, laughed through the movie and loved it once it came on Netflix. That's anecdotal, but it seems to be the majority opinion.
    Well the movies popularity shows your last statement to be true without need for anecdotal evidence. Big picture Marvel saved Thor and made him way more relevant and popular with Ragnarok. I think the Russos balanced the humor and Drama with Thors new personality perfect and hope Taika maybe follows that tone. Russos and Taika have also used Dr Strange better then his director did also. He made Strange Quippy and starkish. Ragnarok and the Avengers films made Strange pitch perfect for me. He was funny at times but it was situational. Most the time him just being a dick. Hes wasnt cracking pop culture references and one liners. So I'm cool with Thor 4 evolving and maybe being more balanced. But Taika earned the right to make it whatever he wants and I'll get it a chance either way. Thor was my least favorite Avenger after Ultron and now hes one of my favorites.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 07-17-2019 at 01:27 PM.

  10. #40
    Fantastic Member Mr Cochese's Avatar
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    Are there really sites that exist just to count how many jokes movies have per minute of runtime? If so, does Airplane! just make them return a 500 code?

  11. #41
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Cochese View Post
    Are there really sites that exist just to count how many jokes movies have per minute of runtime? If so, does Airplane! just make them return a 500 code?
    It doesn’t just exist to count jokes. It counts all sorts of things.

    https://www.visu.info/

    It specifically counted jokes because of the claim that Marvel movies were getting more quippy. It turns out it’s not as simple as that.

    Objective measurements in narratology are fascinating. My favourite is the research paper that counted the number and frequency of scene changes throughout hundreds of movies using software, and demonstrates that every successful movie ever has pretty much conformed to a four act pacing structure.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 07-17-2019 at 02:56 PM.
    ďAnd I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.Ē ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Korg wasn't so much a character. He was just comedy relief. For him to have made a impact, they needed to have used him sparingly. That way, when he does appear with the comedy, it has much more of an impact. He was introduced halfway into the film and, by the time it had finished, he was absolutely annoying the hell out of me. It should have been the opposite. I should have left the cinema going, "Damn, that Korg was fun!"
    Part of me preferred Korg from the comics but there was no way we were getting that in the movie.

    I missed a lot of Planet Hulk elements that the movie cut out, to be honest.
    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Did anyone truly enjoy Dark World? I don’t mean did you find it entertaining or did you think some of the performances were good. I mean overall, is it a movie you actively rank as one of the better movies? Because from where I am standing Marvel had a choice. Badly made, serious Thor movies that don’t really understand the character or the world of Thor, or movies like Ragnarok, that at least understand the aspiration and joy of Thor, and play to the emergent strength of Hemsworth as a dry comedic actor.
    I didn't dislike Dark World. It was just a decent MCU solo movie in my opinion, weighed down by some story issues and not getting to play to Thor's strengths and world as much as it could have.

    I don't know if I'd say Ragnarok understands the aspiration and joy of Thor. I think that was better captured in the prior movies. If we're talking Hercules, well, that's a whole different story...
    The things that did work in Dark World were Hemsworth and Hiddleston. Some of the scenes in Asgard reminded us that this was a passable fantasy even when it lacked the charm of the first movie. Not much else really worked. The story was paper thin, the sense of threat was non-existant, the Infinity Stone tie-in felt forced, the final act was pointless and overall it is right at the bottom of the pile perhaps just above The Incredible Hulk. Because I will occasionally rewatch it and I don’t ever plan on rewatching Hulk.
    I preferred Loki in Dark World to Ragnarok. In Ragnarok he basically felt like a punchline and they undid all the potential of the final moment with Loki in Dark World.
    So surely there can be very few MCU fans that would actually want a return to that kind of movie? Even the first movie was not great. It is saved by the direction, Branagh was sorely missed in Dark World. He knows how to get the best from his actors and he has a great eye for tone and unifying the look and feel of a movie. He was probably already being ear marked for Cinderella which I have to say was a much better movie than any of the Thor movies.
    I actually really enjoyed the first Thor movie. I wish they could've carried more momentum from the first film.
    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Yes, it's filled with comedy but it's actually one of the very few superhero movies that has real stakes and consequences.
    Yeah, but I felt like they undercut those stakes and consequences by virtue of how they approached them and the jokes.
    I won't mind it if they tone down the comedy but its quite clear that Marvel isnt going with the "dark fantasy" elements of Thor, so I don't really have a problem with the tone of Ragnarok continuing.
    Thor's not really a dark fantasy though. I mean, just look at the Simonson run.
    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    It is perhaps worth remembering that Thor: The Dark World was quite high in its joke count. According to the Visu figures it had one every 1m30s. A higher frequency than GotG2! I can only imagine they were not very good jokes because I don’t remember laughing much.
    I can remember one or two jokes in Dark World, but I don't think the comedy was its strong point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Well the movies popularity shows your last statement to be true without need for anecdotal evidence. Big picture Marvel saved Thor and made him way more relevant and popular with Ragnarok. I think the Russos balanced the humor and Drama with Thors new personality perfect and hope Taika maybe follows that tone. Russos and Taika have also used Dr Strange better then his director did also. He made Strange Quippy and starkish. Ragnarok and the Avengers films made Strange pitch perfect for me. He was funny at times but it was situational. Most the time him just being a dick. Hes wasnt cracking pop culture references and one liners. So I'm cool with Thor 4 evolving and maybe being more balanced. But Taika earned the right to make it whatever he wants and I'll get it a chance either way. Thor was my least favorite Avenger after Ultron and now hes one of my favorites.
    I agree the Russo's had a much better take on Strange compared to his solo outing in my opinion.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Well the movies popularity shows your last statement to be true without need for anecdotal evidence. Big picture Marvel saved Thor and made him way more relevant and popular with Ragnarok. I think the Russos balanced the humor and Drama with Thors new personality perfect and hope Taika maybe follows that tone. Russos and Taika have also used Dr Strange better then his director did also. He made Strange Quippy and starkish. Ragnarok and the Avengers films made Strange pitch perfect for me. He was funny at times but it was situational. Most the time him just being a dick. Hes wasnt cracking pop culture references and one liners. So I'm cool with Thor 4 evolving and maybe being more balanced. But Taika earned the right to make it whatever he wants and I'll get it a chance either way. Thor was my least favorite Avenger after Ultron and now hes one of my favorites.
    Completely agree about Strange. We went into Ragnarok with low expectations and came out with huge smiles, I feel like that's the case with most people. Might as well keep that train rolling.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Did anyone truly enjoy Dark World? I donít mean did you find it entertaining or did you think some of the performances were good. I mean overall, is it a movie you actively rank as one of the better movies? Because from where I am standing Marvel had a choice. Badly made, serious Thor movies that donít really understand the character or the world of Thor, or movies like Ragnarok, that at least understand the aspiration and joy of Thor, and play to the emergent strength of Hemsworth as a dry comedic actor.

    I mean, look at Kat Dennings in Dark World. Her very small part in the first movie lead to her being more in the spotlight and the main source of comic relief and she was terrible. Probably not her fault, the material was not great. The movie was not great.

    The things that did work in Dark World were Hemsworth and Hiddleston. Some of the scenes in Asgard reminded us that this was a passable fantasy even when it lacked the charm of the first movie. Not much else really worked. The story was paper thin, the sense of threat was non-existant, the Infinity Stone tie-in felt forced, the final act was pointless and overall it is right at the bottom of the pile perhaps just above The Incredible Hulk. Because I will occasionally rewatch it and I donít ever plan on rewatching Hulk.

    So surely there can be very few MCU fans that would actually want a return to that kind of movie? Even the first movie was not great. It is saved by the direction, Branagh was sorely missed in Dark World. He knows how to get the best from his actors and he has a great eye for tone and unifying the look and feel of a movie. He was probably already being ear marked for Cinderella which I have to say was a much better movie than any of the Thor movies.
    All Thor films have had their share of problems. The Dark World, in particular, had all the right ingredients going into it with the individuals involved. You've highlighted most of the main ones in your post. However The Dark World suffers from a identity crisis in that nobody truly committed on a set tone for the film.

    One minute it was going to be a fantasy along the lines of GoT. The next they were trying to make it lighter.

    The above process came about due to the switch in directors: Branagh bowed out early due to the commitment it need; Kirk couldn't agree on terms in the contract; Jenkins exited over "creative differences" and Taylor was an unknown commodity feature film wise (although his television work was stellar at the time.)

    Thor 1 had a clear vision. Ragnarok had a clear vision. The Dark World didn't. It COULD have been great. The fact it wasn't is the most disappointing thing about it.

    Do a want a straight up serious Thor film? Absolutely not. But I don't want one that is straight slapstick and played for laughs either. A story needs to know when to be serious and when not to be. Those lines were blurred in Ragnarok to the point of being nonexistent. In hindsight, Thor 1 got the balance about right. 2 went too dark and 3 went too comedic.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    Except that Avengers has a far higher joke count than any of these movies so perhaps not? The only movie higher than Avengers is Homecoming and perhaps when it gets counted Far From Home. So Ragnarok and the GotG movies are turned down not up.
    Guardians of the galaxy 2 was toned down? That film took everything refreshing and fun about the first one and turned the dial to 11. So much so i can't even rewatch it because I cringe. I've tried to give it a fair shake, but I just can't sit through it. From discussions I have had with both fans, and non-fans, I am not alone in that sentiment. Which is a shame as I liked 1.

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