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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Guardians of the galaxy 2 was toned down? That film took everything refreshing and fun about the first one and turned the dial to 11. So much so i can't even rewatch it because I cringe. I've tried to give it a fair shake, but I just can't sit through it. From discussions I have had with both fans, and non-fans, I am not alone in that sentiment. Which is a shame as I liked 1.
    I'm in the same boat. Even Baby Groot couldn't save it from being in my bottom third of MCU movies. And I think Guardians of the Galaxy is an absolute gem. It's the movie that took the MCU from "really solid" to "something uniquely special" IMO. They proved no name characters, with a relatively no-name cast, can turn in a heart wrenching, tear inducing, hilarious movie with a ton of feeling. I was very disappointed with the second one's inability to capture that.

  2. #47
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    I was so glad when learned that Taika was returning and that there will be a forth Thor but then again I loved Gunn's GOTG and I didn't like like Vol. 2 that much. (Fingers crossed this turns out great like Ragnarok sans Yost and Co.)

  3. #48
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    All Thor films have had their share of problems. The Dark World, in particular, had all the right ingredients going into it with the individuals involved. You've highlighted most of the main ones in your post. However The Dark World suffers from a identity crisis in that nobody truly committed on a set tone for the film.

    One minute it was going to be a fantasy along the lines of GoT. The next they were trying to make it lighter.

    The above process came about due to the switch in directors: Branagh bowed out early due to the commitment it need; Kirk couldn't agree on terms in the contract; Jenkins exited over "creative differences" and Taylor was an unknown commodity feature film wise (although his television work was stellar at the time.)

    Thor 1 had a clear vision. Ragnarok had a clear vision. The Dark World didn't. It COULD have been great. The fact it wasn't is the most disappointing thing about it.

    Do a want a straight up serious Thor film? Absolutely not. But I don't want one that is straight slapstick and played for laughs either. A story needs to know when to be serious and when not to be. Those lines were blurred in Ragnarok to the point of being nonexistent. In hindsight, Thor 1 got the balance about right. 2 went too dark and 3 went too comedic.
    I pretty much agree with all this.

    Although I don't think the issue with Dark World was that it was too dark, but, like you said, it couldn't commit to one tone.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I pretty much agree with all this.

    Although I don't think the issue with Dark World was that it was too dark, but, like you said, it couldn't commit to one tone.
    I really should have used dreary/serious to describe The Dark World. That's my mistake. Still, given how fun I found Wonder Woman to be (It falls apart in the final fight due to some poorly rendered CGI), I often wonder how The Dark World would have turned out had Jenkins stayed on. From what I remember, she really wanted to play up the Romeo and Juliet aspect between Thor and Jane. Which is one of the major plot threads in the comics from early Journey Into Mystery right up until Odin splits them up in Thor #136. On the other hand, Hemsworth and Portman had zero chemistry, so probably not lol.

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    Guardians of the galaxy 2 was toned down? That film took everything refreshing and fun about the first one and turned the dial to 11. So much so i can't even rewatch it because I cringe. I've tried to give it a fair shake, but I just can't sit through it. From discussions I have had with both fans, and non-fans, I am not alone in that sentiment. Which is a shame as I liked 1.
    I am pointing out that It’s not Whedon turned up because Avengers is Whedon turned up and only one movie in the list that Visu counted has a higher joke count or frequency and that’s not a Guardians movie or Ragnarok. So based on number of jokes it’s objectively Whedon turned down.

    Of all the movies counted by Visu, only Homecoming can really be called Whedon turned up. Based on my laughter I suspect Far From Home may have even more jokes but that’s a guess. I am not going to count them.

    I am not referring to the type of jokes or the quality of jokes or anything subjective like enjoyment or critical reception. Clearly GotG was a more broad comedy. Clearly GotG2 wasn’t as good as GotG1 according to most critics. It objectively has less jokes than GotG1. Ragnarok has more than both but less than Avengers, although the frequency was almost as high and it is shorter.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 07-18-2019 at 01:55 AM.
    “And I urge you to please notice when you are happy, and exclaim or murmur or think at some point, 'If this isn't nice, I don't know what is.” ― Kurt Vonnegut Jr.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I am pointing out that It’s not Whedon turned up because Avengers is Whedon turned up and only one movie in the list that Visu counted has a higher joke count or frequency and that’s not a Guardians movie or Ragnarok. So based on number of jokes it’s objectively Whedon turned down.

    Of all the movies counted by Visu, only Homecoming can really be called Whedon turned up. Based on my laughter I suspect Far From Home may have even more jokes but that’s a guess. I am not going to count them.

    I am not referring to the type of jokes or the quality of jokes or anything subjective like enjoyment or critical reception. Clearly GotG was a more broad comedy. Clearly GotG2 wasn’t as good as GotG1 according to most critics. It objectively has less jokes than GotG1. Ragnarok has more than both but less than Avengers, although the frequency was almost as high and it is shorter.
    Whedon also advised on The Dark World script too. Even rewrote a few scenes when Marvel flew him down directly to help when the production hit a snag. Taylor recounted it during one of the interviews after the film was released. Apparently Taylor handed Whedon the script and pointed out various parts of the script that weren't working and basically said, "can you please fix this?"

  7. #52
    Mighty Member Panic's Avatar
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    For the first 30 minutes I was loving Thor:The Dark World for its fast pace and zany humour - I seriously thought they had hit gold, sitting there in the cinema. But the more the dramatic side of the plot came to the fore, the worse it got.

    Major issues:

    1: Malekith was dull, not a patch on Simonson's version;

    2: Thor was kind of dull, not being written as awesome enough to work as the straight-man hero, not relaxed enough to be a fun everyman hero;

    3: Asgard didn't work, as they couldn't decide whether it was a civilisation far in advance of our own, or if it was backwards medieval-era civilisation but with magic;

    4: The drama mostly didn't work as the characters didn't feel real enough to make you care;

    5: The action was very lacklustre - I can't remember any good action scenes where I was excited about Thor in combat, and in this kind of movie that is a crippling problem.

    Ragnorok had issues, mainly that the Hela/Asgard parts had little dramatic weight to them - the film knew its strength was the light-hearted caper-movie on Sakaar, and frankly I think it would have been better to keep the Hela-rules-Asgard portion of the plot to the next film, which could have been more serious in tone; but it got a lot right, making Thor more relaxed and funny (which I know isn't the direction a lot of Thor fans wanted, but at least it was a clear direction rather than waffling about in the middle), plus it gave us some great action-scenes, from using his whirling hammer as a shield against Surtur's hordes, to the very well choreographed fight against the Hulk (maybe my favourite Thor action-sequence), and of course the scene with Thor crackling with lightning as he takes on Hela's goons, complete with Led Zeppelin playing full volume. As long as you balance out the goofy parts of your hero with him being awesome you still have a viable hero. If Taika can give us some Thor moments as good as those in Ragnarok or Infinity War I'll be pleased.


    Back to T:TDW... I see I gave it an 8 on IMDb, so though I may have been overgenerous at the time, I obviously still enjoyed it despite my criticisms. And I still really like the first Thor - I know I rated it higher than the first Captain America movie.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    1: Malekith was dull, not a patch on Simonson's version
    I agree 100%. Eccleston is one heck of an actor. Especially when he is committed. I know he wasn't the first choice to play the part (Mikkelsen was), but in interviews he was enthusiastic and discussed at length how he learnt the Elf language the production team had come up with. Then, once the film hits, the guy is barely in it. He has since revealed that, due to extensive cuts, a lot of his stuff ended up on the cutting room floor.

    A similar situation happened with Mickey Rourke in Iron-man 2. Rourke was on a career high at the time due to his roles in Sin City and The Wrestler. When he was brought on at Downey's insistence, he committed to the role 110%. So much so, he learnt Russian, spent almost a month in a Gulag and, to top it off, got literal tattoos that you see on most Russian prisoners. That's dedication. But most of his stuff was dropped as well.

  9. #54
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    I'm more curious just to see where Thor 4 takes place - he was last seen heading into space to find himself. Will he end up back on earth? There's no real Asgard anymore (I doubt the film will take place in a little fishing village... but y'never know) so what will Thor even decide to be? Is there a story from the comics that they can even draw from that would fit this version of Thor? Were the Warriors 3 and/or Odin reincarnated on earth somewhere like in the JMS series?

    I do hope they get back to Sif and give us some resolution to that relationship, but I doubt it'll happen and honestly, I quite enjoy Valkyrie so I wouldn't mind seeing her again.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    For the first 30 minutes I was loving Thor:The Dark World for its fast pace and zany humour - I seriously thought they had hit gold, sitting there in the cinema. But the more the dramatic side of the plot came to the fore, the worse it got.

    Major issues:

    1: Malekith was dull, not a patch on Simonson's version;

    2: Thor was kind of dull, not being written as awesome enough to work as the straight-man hero, not relaxed enough to be a fun everyman hero;

    3: Asgard didn't work, as they couldn't decide whether it was a civilisation far in advance of our own, or if it was backwards medieval-era civilisation but with magic;

    4: The drama mostly didn't work as the characters didn't feel real enough to make you care;

    5: The action was very lacklustre - I can't remember any good action scenes where I was excited about Thor in combat, and in this kind of movie that is a crippling problem.

    Ragnorok had issues, mainly that the Hela/Asgard parts had little dramatic weight to them - the film knew its strength was the light-hearted caper-movie on Sakaar, and frankly I think it would have been better to keep the Hela-rules-Asgard portion of the plot to the next film, which could have been more serious in tone; but it got a lot right, making Thor more relaxed and funny (which I know isn't the direction a lot of Thor fans wanted, but at least it was a clear direction rather than waffling about in the middle), plus it gave us some great action-scenes, from using his whirling hammer as a shield against Surtur's hordes, to the very well choreographed fight against the Hulk (maybe my favourite Thor action-sequence), and of course the scene with Thor crackling with lightning as he takes on Hela's goons, complete with Led Zeppelin playing full volume. As long as you balance out the goofy parts of your hero with him being awesome you still have a viable hero. If Taika can give us some Thor moments as good as those in Ragnarok or Infinity War I'll be pleased.


    Back to T:TDW... I see I gave it an 8 on IMDb, so though I may have been overgenerous at the time, I obviously still enjoyed it despite my criticisms. And I still really like the first Thor - I know I rated it higher than the first Captain America movie.
    100% agree on the analysis of TDW.
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