New "Crisis" theory (not rumor) from bleedingcool

[BatmanJones]

Again this isn't a rumor or leak of any sort though posts of that sort are usually the bread and butter of this site.

This is what I consider a pretty interesting theory posited by Robert Cale about King's Batman, Doomsday Clock, Three Jokers and more being signs of a new "Crisis." You can read it here. Beware of spoilers for Batman #75 as it features prominently in Rich's theory.

Interested to know everyone's thoughts.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07...popular_mobile

**Edited to give proper credit to the writer, Robert Cale.

[mikelmcknight72]

It is DC, so a new Crisis is inevitable. It is certainly a valid possibility that BC is at least partially correct.

[CaptCleghorn]

It is DC, so a new Crisis is inevitable. It is certainly a valid possibility that BC is at least partially correct.

I agree. Death, Taxes, and Crises in DC Comics. I'm not sure what they'll do, but the waters have been simmering for years. Since at least Flashpoint a dn maybe insome respect all the way back to COIE. My GUESS is that DC may not even have a set plan at this point. It's like they're making a model railroad track but never get around to connecting the loop so the train can run. Big multiversal creation stories are fun,m but eventually we have to play with a complete multiver, don't we?

It's like a house rehab show which goes on and on and no one is ever able to move back into the "fixed" house. DC had better hurry up and hit 2020 becasue you know they're going to be doing something for their 100th in 2035.

[BatmanJones]

To be a little more clear, not so much interested in what people think about the possibility of there being another "Crisis." We all know continuity reboots happen every so many years at DC (and Marvel).

What's interesting to me is the theory behind it which touches on a good bit of pretty specific DC stuff going back to just before Rebirth in The Three Jokers.

The nuts and bolts of the theory are what make it interesting. The idea of there being another "Crisis" is, I agree, not particularly worthy of discussion.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Link is dead to me for some reason.

That said, if DC intends to have even a shadow of a somehow cohesive continuity in the future there's no other way. I just can't see how they can massage the current mess into making sense.

[BatmanJones]

Link is dead to me for some reason.

That said, if DC intends to have even a shadow of a somehow cohesive continuity in the future there's no other way. I just can't see how they can massage the current mess into making sense.

Let me try again. Hopefully this works. It does for me:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07...popular_mobile

[BatmanJones]

You're right, @BohemiaDrinker. That was a dead link. Edited the OP with a good one.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Let me try again. Hopefully this works. It does for me:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/07...popular_mobile

Thanks. Works fine now!

[BohemiaDrinker]

Okay. now that I've read it, the theory is kind of solid.

And I think that it bears noticing that we now have 5 characters with access to memories of full the post-Crisis while also having lived a full life in the post-Flashpoint continuity (Those are Wally West, Iris West, Conner Kent, Tim Drake and Bart Allen), and one other with at least partial access to it (Cassie Sandsmark).

It could not be a big deal if not for the fact that none of these characters memories are reconcilable with the present continuity. Also, 3 of them (the Flash crew) are time-travelers.

It's also worth noticing that Batman is the last one of the Trinity to not have a disparate recent pst (Current Superman is 2 different versions merged, not Nu52's. Current Wonder Woman had a fake past in Azarello's run).

So, yeah.... I could see it. I also think it's not the kind of thing that would compliment Tom King's skillset (But then again, HiC was and look how that turned out).

[Tzigone]

Let’s say something very bad happens to Superman, that he becomes so angry that he punches with enough might to kill even Dr. Manhattan. And let’s say that Dr. Manhattan has been actively manipulating multiple timelines, changing them but also sustaining them. What if the godlike being who is actively holding time together… suddenly dies? What would happen to time?

So, Manhattan ends up good (relatively - in grander scope) and Superman evil/destroying for some reason and Superman destroying him would destroy the world? Please no. I'm so sick of evil Superman, even in alternate realities. Let Superman be awesome and be the hero a storyline. My impression was it seemed like Doomsday Clock might sort of be going that way, even though it placed import on JSA, so he wasn't the first, as I prefer (I'm waiting for it to be finished to read, so going by comments and excerpts). I do expect the continuity issues/memory conflicts to play in, somehow.

[Korath]

It's more that King can't be bothered to even have internal continuity in his run. I don't think it hint at anything like a Crisis.

[Tzigone]

It's more that King can't be bothered to even have internal continuity in his run. I don't think it hint at anything like a Crisis.

I'd agree (or think some of them meaningless shout-outs), if we didn't have other people in other titles also having pre-FP memories. It's definitely significant, but I have no idea how it's going to play out. I think it's too soon for another Crisis, but events sell, and there definitely seems to be some kind of continuity-altering in the making.

[superduperman]

It isn't the most ridiculous theory. And it would explain why DDC isn't connected to anything else going on in the DCU. But that doesn't explain what this Superman theory is in the book. In order for it to "pass without incident" you'd have to ignore that entire aspect of the book. We know that the transition from New 52 to Rebirth was rocky at best (merging the two Supermen, WW having a false history) done in a slapdash manner to keep the books going. A clearly defined Crisis would straighten some of that up. DC knows they have continuity problems and a good round number to start a reboot on makes sense. 2020 is it. Someone in the comments section of the BC article suggested the reason why Bruce and Selina have conflicting memories is because Bruce only considers himself to be Batman. So a meeting before he was Batman doesn't "count" in his mind. It's just as plausible as a conflicting continuity. But that means they've been planning this for at least the last three years.

But as someone else also pointed out on the BC article: So many of these "big arc" stories were meant to fix the continuity problems and they never did. There's no reason to assume, even if there is another Crisis coming, that it will do any better. In terms of things like the Super-marriage I don't think we're getting a hard reboot. But there aspects of every character's post-Rebirth history that need clearing up. I think the best we can hope for is that this will bring back the infinite multiverse again and every previous version is still out there somewhere.

[Tzigone]

So many of these "big arc" stories were meant to fix the continuity problems and they never did. There's no reason to assume, even if there is another Crisis coming, that it will do any better.

It's been pointed out before here, too, in a slightly different way (and going back further):

People were unhappy with the direction of the original DC universe with things like Identity Crisis, Cry for Justice, etc. so they rebooted with New 52. People didn't like that so they did a soft reboot with Rebirth. People now have issues with that. The common factor? The same people were in charge over all of those changes.

Reboots don't work if the same people that "messed it up" to begin with are still in charge over the new stuff. The only actual change you'll ever see in the company's direction is if the upper staff changes.

[Quasar's Bands]

It's been pointed out before here, too, in a slightly different way (and going back further):

It's been pointed out before here, too, in a slightly different way (and going back further):

So what if there REALLY is a big thing going on here:

1)Manhattan is killed, and a ripple happens across the DC Universe, essentially snapping SOME of it back to Pre-Flashpoint
2) In Batman, they really do have Gotham Girl kill Batman, and then the merging of the three Joker timelines results in his "Rebirth."
3) In JLA, the JSA, Jonah Hex, and Legion of Superheroes all are reintroduced (which is happening) and their memories come back from Pre-Flashpoint
4) In Young Justice, other heroes start to remember once they are in contact with all the YJ members that have Pre-Flashpoint memories
5) All the Superman characters, like Supergirl, start to remember Pre-Flashpoint stuff
6) Wonder Woman remembers her pre-Flashpoint stories as well as her "fake" history stuff
7) Other characters, like Animal Man and Psycho Pirate and Iris West, suddenly become tethers to teach everyone else about Pre-Flashpoint

It could be epic!