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  1. #1
    More eldritch than thou Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    Default What if Palpatine hadn't promised joint rule in governing the Empire?

    In his speech to the Senate announcing the creation of the Empire, Palpatine states that the new order will be jointly governed by him and 'this august body' (this part of the speech wasn't in the movie). In stating this, he promised a substantial constitutional role for the Senate within the governmental structure of the Empire. This was of course all a lie, and it did not take long for him to accrue nearly all power to himself. But was this small statement crucial to the formation of the Empire? If he had said that he planned to rule alone, would the Senate still have supported him, or would the move have been more controversial, or would the Senate just have rejected him outright? The Senate did want him to continue to govern as a strong leader, but I can't see its members wanting to be denied any role in the government whatsoever. Sidious was a master bullshitter and manipulator, so I can't help but think that this statement was a carefully worded so as to assuage any concerns that the Senate might have, especially concerning those who had been critical of his ever-increasing power during his time as Chancellor, promises that of course he had no real intention of honoring.

    For an extra question, was one of the reasons the Senate welcomed his enthronement because they thought that he was going to die soon, and thus wouldn't be in power for very long? I mean, he was pretty old (though his Force powers were keeping him alive), so I can see the senators reasoning that the Empire might be a temporary solution so as to provide the galaxy with some much-needed stability after the Clone Wars to allow for reconstruction, the formalizing of how the new army and navy were going to be used in the future, how the government could be kept from falling into the corruption and decadence of the pre-war era, and how the galaxy was going to transition to a Jedi-less state. They probably figured that once Palpatine died, a reformed Republic could then take over. If Palaptine had been a much younger man however, I can could see more resistance from the Senate, as the senators might think that they were going to be subservient to him for decades to come, and that the Empire could be more entrenched, more viewed as the norm by the common people, and thus a good deal more difficult to reverse some time later. What do you think?
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  2. #2
    iMan 42s
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    The Empire as it formed under Palpatine was result of his manipulation of the Clone Wars.

    The Republic just wasn't interested in secession. As we've seen, if you're in the outer rim or somehow in a place without Republic notice you can basically do whatever you want, and that scared Republic citizens and senators. Not to mention that the CIS was a conglomerate that just went to war with them. Sure that's Palpatine securing power and stamping out resistance, but the senators don't know that. The Republic was disorganized and a bit corrupt at that so when the senators hear that the Jedi generals (powerful wizards who are generals of the greatest army the galaxy had ever seen up to that point) had been traitorous, it's going to rub a lot of them the wrong way. There's only so many of them but they can cross the line as much as anybody else and when it comes to actually getting things done, they're the ones doing it. And who can forget that the leader of the CIS was one of them who trained his boogeyman in their arts. Anybody who doesn't know any better will follow it.

    The galaxy at that point went through a devastating war at four years. And even then the senate was still there and as we know from canon, they did make attempts to keep the peace even if it was moving the ball in the Empire's court. This would lead to a reduction in powers over twenty years to the events of ANH where they had been about to dissolve the senate outright in favor of keeping the peace with the Death Star.

    They went with it due to the war clouding judgement, manipulation by Palpatinem, and nobody really had that big of an issue with Imperial rule outside of the systems that would make up the Rebellion. The Empire got things done and they got them done right which allowed people to look the other way hence the senate not really doing anything even when they could.
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  3. #3
    Mighty Member
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    I'm still not entirely sure how the Senate was cool with the transition from "We're all in this together" to "Palpatines the boss now" no matter how devastating a war.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    I'm still not entirely sure how the Senate was cool with the transition from "We're all in this together" to "Palpatines the boss now" no matter how devastating a war.
    It's based on historical fact and has happened many times with politicians in time of war and strife.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    There were also the Moffs/regional governors, whom Palpatine gave 'direct control' in ANH after the Death Star was completed. There's actually a few scenes deleted in ROTS that has Palpatine creating "sector governors" that alarm Padme, Bail, and Mon Mothma's faction in the senate (Who of course eventually become the rebellion).

    Probably part of the reason why a second one was made so quickly (Although, compared to Disney's wealth of information on the first DS, we don't really know much about when the second began building, although the Marvel series has of course alluded that the Empire still wants kyber crystals. Was it built around the same time? Or could they build the second much faster since they pretty much knew what caused the delays of the first and could build on that? Maybe with DS II having a role in ROS we'll find out more about it.)
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  6. #6
    iMan 42s
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    There were also the Moffs/regional governors, whom Palpatine gave 'direct control' in ANH after the Death Star was completed. There's actually a few scenes deleted in ROTS that has Palpatine creating "sector governors" that alarm Padme, Bail, and Mon Mothma's faction in the senate (Who of course eventually become the rebellion).

    Probably part of the reason why a second one was made so quickly (Although, compared to Disney's wealth of information on the first DS, we don't really know much about when the second began building, although the Marvel series has of course alluded that the Empire still wants kyber crystals. Was it built around the same time? Or could they build the second much faster since they pretty much knew what caused the delays of the first and could build on that? Maybe with DS II having a role in ROS we'll find out more about it.)
    A big reason why the Death Star took so long was because the superlaser didn't work (Galen stalling). Therefore all it was is a giant base in the middle of space. By ROTS its frame was already built and by roughly a year to two, the station had much of its structure in place. That's about 5-6 years of construction assuming the Geonosians started during the Clone Wars. A lot of the issue of the first Death Star's construction phase beyond getting the laser to work was the Geonosians not playing ball and the sheer scope of the project.

    With the Battle of Endor taking place four years after the Battle of Yavin, that's within the realm of possibility. If they started construction soon after the battle they'd have another in time for Endor. That's also consistent with Vader's trip to Sho-torun (a mining world) and securing it for the Empire since they'd need the raw materials and Vader just dodges the question as to why he's really there. So yeah, within four years and knowing how to do the laser, they'd definitely be able to build another especially since it seems that while operational, it wasn't finished.
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  7. #7
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    I always assumed DSII was already started before Rouge One/A New Hope.
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  8. #8
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Also makes me wonder if the second fixed some of the problems with the first if it was completed. The destruction is somewhat a bit more complicated in ROTJ, whereas DSI had the fault in the reactor Galen made. And then there's the exhaust port issue, although of course with the DS II pretty much exposed, was kind of irrelevant.

    Some of the old EU tech books stated that, if completed, the Death Star II had a different venting system than the exhaust ports to prevent that kind of thing.
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