man I feel bad for non fans of Batman...

[phonogram12]

This whole exchange has been really interesting. While I'm loving Bendis' run on Supes, it's really interesting to read both sides of the argument.

[manwhohaseverything]

Nope. Sorry, you can't just throw those stories out because they don't fit your argument. Like I said, Superman Reborn basically rejiggered Superman's timeline along Pre-FP grounds. So, I don't see anything that would suggest that those stories are not canon. Therefore, I can probably safely assume that they are. And as for why they're not referenced, well, let me ask you: how often are storylines from about a decade or more ago referenced in the current comics? I don't see Iron Man and Captain America referencing all the bad blood that existed between them during the Civil War, but I know it happened. I don't see Spider-Man comics referencing the Clone Saga, but I know it happened, even despite OMD changing Spider-Man's timeline. I don't see Green Lantern comics referencing Hal's time as Parallax, but again, I know that it happened.

Sam Lane probably has targetted Superman in the past just like he did Pre-Flashpoint because that would even explain why Lois had to have that confrontation with him in Action #1007 in the first place.



It's just a general approximation based on the current state of the books post-Reborn. But:

1) we actually don't know if New Krypton or Grounded didn't happen,
2) Chris Kent actually does exist in this timeline, but he's with Zod now and just goes by his Kryptonian name and he was with them in the Phantom Zone, which is actually where we last saw him before Flashpoint, and
3) how do you know that Superman doesn't know this Legion? We haven't really seen anything and since they seem to have a fairly good memory of Pre-FP (like YJ and NTT), I'd say they actually might know him.



To most people, that does mean something. Anectdotal evidence doesn't mean anything. In other words, your example doesn't mean much. You wouldn't, but that doesn't mean that Lois and Clark wouldn't. You interpret things one way, but that doesn't mean that other people would see it the same way. And it also doesn't mean that anyone whoacts differently from you is acting out of character. What Clark knows is that his biological father came back into his life and despite everything that has transpired is attempting to guide and help his son.

And also, let's not forget that Jor-El still is not being made out as the bad guy in this. You seem to be under the impression that Jor-El is the villain. Uh, Jor-EL is the one who is actually fighting the villains: you know, Rogol Zaar and Zod and those who hired them.



To you, it doesn't mean anything. As I've said a bunch already, your judgment is different than other peoples' judgment. If your son tells you he is going through an identity crisis and the only person who seems to understand him is his grandfather and then your wife tells you that he was flourishing up there under his grandfather's guidance, you're not really a bad father for thinking he doesn't need your help.



Why is them having sex an issue? Parents have sex when their kids go to visit their grandparents all the time. From their perspective, that's where Jon was, visiting with his grandfather.



They are not trivializing anything and yes you are mischaracterizing it. They're not laughing at Jon's misfortune because, from their perspective, Jon isn't in a position that requires rescuing.



Well, a lot of people actually really liked it. It got great reviews.



She's talking about his maturity. She means that he started acting like a young man the minute they went up.



You're really reading into what is essentially one word. Yeah, Jor-El is weirdly ominous. Does that mean he wasn't right about Jon needing to grow and find out who he was? No, it doesn't.



Yes. Let's.

I know new krypton didn't happen cause,jurgens was trying to do something with the concept for a future story.lor zod ain't chris kent. The legion is being rebooted. Bendis himself said this is the legion's first debut.look dude, the way something is canon is made sure is when the comics recognises the story via dialoge or a flashback scene. For instance president luthor, it was explicitly shown that it is canon.if that doesn't happen,we can't just take a particular prefered continuity or version and paste it. You seem to like preflashpoint that seems to be why you seem adamant. But, why does it have to be preflashpoint? It could be new52? I mean, we still have new52 lana. It was merger, you can like it or hate It.this ain't continuation of preflashpoint universe,if it was characters like wally wouldn't be in this predicament. I myself prefer the older continuity but that is not coming back especially since didio is incharge.geoff Jones isn't incharge anymore. Doomsday clock is basically irrelevant.

No you haven't. You haven't told me what the nornal judgement will be, if mine is so different? Look dude, parents have a common behaviour pattern and decision making process . It is a spectrum with people lying on various positions. But when they go outside that spectrum they start becoming unparent like or shitty. That's why the scenerio i posted is relevant. It's what most parents would do.

Grandpa crap doesn't mean anything not just to me but many people on this forum itself.it wouldn't mean anything to most parents in this situation,since their kid's safety would be the priority . There were alot of people that hated action comics 1004 here, on twitter, on youtube.. Etc. Heroes in Crisis got decent reviews as well. Doesn't mean jack **** mate. As i said stop with "the argument from authority" . Comic book reviews don't mean anything.

The morons known as lois lane and clark kent have no means to communicate with their son.Clark kent who was right the first time when he decided to send his son only if he was under lois's care backtracks, just like that? Lois returned home that too without jon. Shouldn't that be a cause of worry. He didn't even ask her if she had brought anything to contact jon with.And lois didn't bring any.
Tell me, how are these responsible parental behaviour?
They are idiots and shitty parents. Goku has good company.

Dude, jon is a kid. It is not his decision to make.turning him down is what a parent most likely do. Ofcourse he will go through these things. Kids get rejected and feel Dejected all the time. That doesn't mean you allow your kid to be a unstable stranger unsupervised.Jon has killed his cat before because he couldn't control his ability. You know what clark did. He took the brunt of full power laser vision from jon inorder to teach him how to control it. Now that's a parent. He didn't send his son of with a so called "grandpa" into god knows where. Lois used the fucking hell bat suit to protect her son. She got injured very badly,When Manchester black to her kid. but still wanted to go to fight and protect her son. Now, that is a mother. Current one's doesn't behave like that.
Bendis writes a good superman and sometimes a decent lois.but,he absolutely sucks at superfamily.

It is not just one word. It gives us her opinion of jor el. She thinks he is creepy. Any idiot would think he is creepy. But this moron who is called world's greatest journalist decides to leave his kid with the creepy jerk.
Jon's growth is what matters there will be other avenues. If not Jor el can do that under the supervision of clois. That would be what responsible parents would do. If they have to go of planet, it will also be under surveillance or supervision. Clark could arrange that easily. No way, 10 year old would allowed to do as he please. Just cause he was feeling emotional.
Also, arument from authority doesn't mean anything here. But still. You have pushed my hand
https://www.superherohype.com/comics...perhero-comics
Lois lane worst mom because bendis.the writer of the article says lois would be best mom,if it wasn't for bendis.

Worst Mom: Lois Lane
There was a time when Lois Lane would have topped this list. As the wife of Superman and the mother of Jonathan Kent/Superboy, Lois proved that she was willing to do anything for her family. At least until the current SUPERMAN run. Recently, Lois and Jonathan accompanied Jor-El on an intergalactic voyage…until Lois felt she wasn’t needed. So she went back to Earth to write a novel while leaving her son alone with an increasingly unstable mad man. That’s real “mom of the year” material, and we’re thinking that a retcon is inevitable. Especially since Jonathan returned to Earth as a teenager.

RECOMMENDED READING: SUPERMAN: LOIS AND CLARK

These were happier times for the Kent family, as Lois and Clark tried to navigate their personal heroics while raising Jonathan.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I know new krypton didn't happen cause,jurgens was trying to do something with the concept for a future story.lor zod ain't chris kent. The legion is being rebooted. Bendis himself said this is the legion's first debut.

Bendis actually said that the Legion shares "a version of the classic relationship" with Clark. So, that would at least suggest that Clark does know them.

But, why does it have to be preflashpoint? It could be new52?

Do you see this Superman hooking up with Wonder Woman? Is his identity out there for the world to know? Was his OG costume jeans and a t-shirt? No. All that stuff from the New 52 was thrown away. And even in the New 52, Sam Lane still teamed up with Luthor to catch Superman. So let's not pretend that New 52 Sam Lane had clean hands either.

I mean, we still have new52 lana. It was merger, you can like it or hate It.

Even in Lana's standalone series, we saw a lot of Pre-Flashpoint come back. So, I wouldn't say she was New 52 Lana.

this ain't continuation of preflashpoint universe,if it was characters like wally wouldn't be in this predicament.

The fact that Wally West remembers his children and his marriage and not to mention everything else that's come back, from the past incarnations of the JL to the Death of Superman to Hush and Knoghfall, I'd say that this is definitely more a continuation of Pre-Flashpoint than New 52.

No, you haven't. You haven't told me what the nornal judgement will be, if mine is so different?

Uh, I never said it was "normal" judgment. It was just their judgment. The point is that just because you wouldn't do something doesn't mean that other people wouldn't. But again, just because they do that thing doesn't mean its out of character or deriliction of duty.

Look dude, parents have a common behaviour pattern and decision making process .

Uh, dude, no. I can tell you from experience, everyone parents differently.

It is a spectrum with people lying on various positions. But when they go outside that spectrum they start becoming unparent like or shitty. That's why the scenerio i posted is relevant. It's what most parents would do. Grandpa crap doesn't mean anything not just to me but many people on this forum itself.it wouldn't mean anything to most parents in this situation,since their kid's safety would be the priority .

By that logic, neither summer camps nor boarding schools would exist. Again, at least Jon was with a blood relative. And you can keep saying the fact that Jor-El is Jon's grandfather means nothing but I can just as easily say that it does. You've provided literally no meaningful counterpoint against that.

There were alot of people that hated action comics 1004 here, on twitter, on youtube.. Etc. Heroes in Crisis got decent reviews as well. Doesn't mean jack **** mate. As i said stop with "the argument from authority" . Comic book reviews don't mean anything.

They do when they track a consensus. HiC had a widespread backlash because of what happened with Wally. I didn't see much of a widespread backlash to anything in Bendis's Superman.

The morons known as lois lane and clark kent have no means to communicate with their son.Clark kent who was right the first time when he decided to send his son only if he was under lois's care backtracks, just like that? Lois returned home that too without jon. Shouldn't that be a cause of worry. He didn't even ask her if she had brought anything to contact jon with.And lois didn't bring any.
Tell me, how are these responsible parental behaviour?
They are idiots and shitty parents. Goku has good company.

Lois was probably under the impression when she left that Clark had the communicator. And yeah, Clark obviously was worried. As he says in the issue, he flew halfway across the solar system to find them after the communicator broke. When Lois comes back, though, he asks her how Jon is and she assures him that he's fine.

Dude, jon is a kid. It is not his decision to make.turning him down is what a parent most likely do.

Dude, again, these are his powers and his identity we're talking about. I can think of things that are a lot more reckless than letting your kid go on a summer trip with their grandpa. And you can say a million times that is doesn't matter. But as I've said, to a lot of people, that would matter. To me, that would matter. Even if I was suspicious of Jor-El on other fronts, I'd at least trust that he wouldn't harm his own grandson.

And, I feel like this can't be stressed enough, Jor-El is actually NOT he shadiest guy here. That honor would go to the actual villains of the story.

[manwhohaseverything]

Bendis actually said that the Legion shares "a version of the classic relationship" with Clark. So, that would at least suggest that Clark does know them.



Do you see this Superman hooking up with Wonder Woman? Is his identity out there for the world to know? Was his OG costume jeans and a t-shirt? No. All that stuff from the New 52 was thrown away. And even in the New 52, Sam Lane still teamed up with Luthor to catch Superman. So let's not pretend that New 52 Sam Lane had clean hands either.



Even in Lana's standalone series, we saw a lot of Pre-Flashpoint come back. So, I wouldn't say she was New 52 Lana.



The fact that Wally West remembers his children and his marriage and not to mention everything else that's come back, from the past incarnations of the JL to the Death of Superman to Hush and Knoghfall, I'd say that this is definitely more a continuation of Pre-Flashpoint than New 52.



Uh, I never said it was "normal" judgment. It was just their judgment. The point is that just because you wouldn't do something doesn't mean that other people wouldn't. But again, just because they do that thing doesn't mean its out of character or deriliction of duty.



Uh, dude, no. I can tell you from experience, everyone parents differently.



By that logic, neither summer camps nor boarding schools would exist. Again, at least Jon was with a blood relative. And you can keep saying the fact that Jor-El is Jon's grandfather means nothing but I can just as easily say that it does. You've provided literally no meaningful counterpoint against that.



They do when they track a consensus. HiC had a widespread backlash because of what happened with Wally. I didn't see much of a widespread backlash to anything in Bendis's Superman.



Lois was probably under the impression when she left that Clark had the communicator. And yeah, Clark obviously was worried. As he says in the issue, he flew halfway across the solar system to find them after the communicator broke. When Lois comes back, though, he asks her how Jon is and she assures him that he's fine.



Dude, again, these are his powers and his identity we're talking about. I can think of things that are a lot more reckless than letting your kid go on a summer trip with their grandpa. And you can say a million times that is doesn't matter. But as I've said, to a lot of people, that would matter. To me, that would matter. Even if I was suspicious of Jor-El on other fronts, I'd at least trust that he wouldn't harm his own grandson.

And, I feel like this can't be stressed enough, Jor-El is actually NOT he shadiest guy here. That honor would go to the actual villains of the story.

He said a version. Not the classic. When asked if this was original legion. He said no this will be debut of legion in this universe. There are threads upon threads discussing this in the forum. Even, Sacred Knight and i agree it is bad to severe legion-clark connection and give it to jon. Check the legion thread.
Superman's parents are still dead. He wore the new52 suit and had many adventures.there is a doomsday virus and an amazo virus. No, i wasn't saying that. Sam lane in this continuity doesn't refer to either of the continuity. He seems to be his own thing.he seems to be more involved with spy organisations. Than being a thaddeus ross rip off in new52 and preflashpoint.
Wally west remembers his kids that don't exist in this reality. They equate him to someone mentally unstable. Wally wests is not remembered by anyone. His stint as flash is up in the air.past iteration of league is back because they are confirmed to be. But to what extent the history is restored we don't know. This death of superman that didn't have kon. But, now conner is back. But his history and connection with clark and kents are up in the air. Since there is no kents alive in this world. Lana was never married to pete ross, i believe. She didn't have a child.
So, whole continuity is mess and in flux. Didio says he will fix it but i don't think so.
Well, then hic is a decent book then.get out of here with that. And I can say that consensus from youtube and reddit is that this is a shitfest. Lois especially is being dragged through the mud as mother.
There is a backlash, with regards to bendis as well dude. Most people on comicvine, reddit r/DCcomics, r/comicbook, most channels on youtube as i mentioned like comicpop, capel joel.. Etc don't care for bendis's supermanfamily and jon. Bendis himself says it is divisive what he did with jon and superfamily. But he is aware of the backlash. He said clois's reason for being idiots was a "blindspot for jor el". He says jon is not turning evil or going to die. As if thats the problem.
Every parent is different but there is common behaviour pattern. It's basic human psychology. Unless you are unstable your choices will fall into spectrum. It is out of character for them Because Clois had a standard procedure and process for jon and his adventures. They wanted to give him space to grow because of his predicament without letting him of the leesh. This time they don't follow any of that. Simply put the broke as parents. Clois always only used to bend because of situations. But they never broke. They always bargained with situations and tried to get a better deal. Now they don't do that.
Dude, this ain't a summer camp or boarding schools.only neglectful parents leave children there. not care about them and not contact them. But,in those usually parents call their children or contact theem.in boarding schools you get to meet them provided there are restrictions. You can also contact them. But, you only send them to these thing making sure they will be under a trusted authority whose actions will be accountable. Here, Clois do none of that.They just left. Like shitty parents do.
then why heck! Did she say "figured" something must have happened to communicator since she couldn't communicate with clark ac#1004? Big whoop ! Token scene doesn't make you a good parent. So worried he forgot about the kid just because he got laid. He didn't ask hal for help or mention it to j'onn. He didn't care his wife left 10 year old without proper precautions.
So, his powers had been more unstable before . Clark is there to help him through that. Otherwise what would be the point in calling himself jon's father. As i said, jon would better of with friends and family that know him than a jackass like jor el.
No it wouldn't. Only for glad handed idiots grandpa crap would matter. For, normal parents son's safety will be more important than stranger with blood relation's nonsense. Unstable men do a lot harm.Any idiot can tell you that it wouldn't matter if it was grandson, son.. Etc on the othe end. Clark has seen jor el be unstable and hurt people. He is an idiot for allowing this. After lois left especially.
I don't care if jor el isn't shadiest guy. He hasn't earned the trust. He is unstable mentally and a stranger. He hadn't even spent time with clark. Sending your kid with a guy like that is almost child abuse at worst, at best ignorant idiocy.
Oh! please, identity and powers were things that can be solved under Clois without sending of with an unstable person. That is why clois was there. And jor el hasn't done anything clois can't do.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

He said a version. Not the classic. When asked if this was original legion. He said no this will be debut of legion in this universe. There are threads upon threads discussing this in the forum. Even, Sacred Knight and i agree it is bad to severe legion-clark connection and give it to jon. Check the legion thread.

I think its premature to say that they definitely don't have a connection to Clark, even when Bendis himself says that a classic version of the relationship already exists. The interviewer asked him if the Legion either did not have any connection with Clark or if they had the classic relationship. He said they had a version of the classic relationship.

Either way, this discussion is tangential at best.

Superman's parents are still dead. He wore the new52 suit and had many adventures.there is a doomsday virus and an amazo virus. No, i wasn't saying that. Sam lane in this continuity doesn't refer to either of the continuity. He seems to be his own thing.he seems to be more involved with spy organisations. Than being a thaddeus ross rip off in new52 and preflashpoint.

That doesn't preclude any of the things he did Pre-Flashpoint, you understand? Really, it doesn't. For all we know, he got involved in ARGUS after being kicked out of the military for his actions in the War of the Supermen arc. In fact, wasn't he in the military during Secret Origin, which was explicitly referenced as being Superman's origin again?

Wally west remembers his kids that don't exist in this reality.

But they are of this reality, you understand? They only don't exist because of outside meddling by Dr. Manhattan. That's the narrative that's been set up.

This death of superman that didn't have kon. But, now conner is back. But his history and connection with clark and kents are up in the air.

I'd say that Conner probably was a part of the Death of Superman arc once again, since when he comes back in YJ, Bart instantly recognizes him. Basically everyone recognizes him and they reference the past YJ. Plus, he's even sporting the look he wore in Reign of the Supermen. So, I think its definitely implied that this is Pre-FP Conner.

Well, then hic is a decent book then.get out of here with that.

Never said it was. In fact, I said HiC received a backlash that Bendis's Superman hasn't.

There is a backlash, with regards to bendis as well dude. Most people on comicvine, reddit r/DCcomics, r/comicbook, most channels on youtube as i mentioned like comicpop, capel joel.. Etc don't care for bendis's supermanfamily and jon. Bendis himself says it is divisive what he did with jon and superfamily. But he is aware of the backlash. He said clois's reason for being idiots was a "blindspot for jor el". He says jon is not turning evil or going to die. As if thats the problem.

Yeah, because a few niche sites is equivalent to the massive backlash that King got on Twitter. [/sarcasm] Even celebrities and pro athletes were tweeting out that Tom King had assassinated Wally West's character. To be clear, I'm also not saying that the backlash that King got was comlpetely justified either, as it got way out of hand. Whenever someone sends death threats because of a fictional character's portrayal, they've lost the argument and their credibility.

Every parent is different but there is common behaviour pattern. It's basic human psychology. Unless you are unstable your choices will fall into spectrum. It is out of character for them Because Clois had a standard procedure and process for jon and his adventures.

I think you keep assuming that parenting is this exact science. Uh, as any parent would tell you, its not. Sometimes parents have a system. HOWEVER, most times, as kids are unpredictable, that system goes out the window. Not to mention that parenting a child with superpowers who is heir to this heroic legacy is probably a million times more unpredictable than a normal kid. So, yeah, I wouldn't say it's "out of character" for Lois and Clark to not adhere to "their system." If life will teach you anything, its that its not very kind to systems.

Dude, this ain't a summer camp or boarding schools.only neglectful parents leave children there. not care about them and not contact them. But,in those usually parents call their children or contact theem.in boarding schools you get to meet them provided there are restrictions.

Uh, I went to summer camp as a kid. If I needed anything, I went to the camp counselors. Didn't see and barely talked to my parents for like that whole time. Its actually quite normal.

But, you only send them to these thing making sure they will be under a trusted authority whose actions will be accountable. Here, Clois do none of that.They just left. Like shitty parents do.

Again. The fact that it's a blood relative who has established that he cares about his family and preserving the Kryptonian legacy is good enough. And again, Jor-El actually searched for years on end to find Jon and rescued him ultimately. Jon was a dumb ass for just running off the way he did.

Token scene doesn't make you a good parent. So worried he forgot about the kid just because he got laid.

Again, why are you fixated on the "getting laid" aspect? If you hadn't seen your wife in weeks, what would you do?

So, his powers had been more unstable before . Clark is there to help him through that. Otherwise what would be the point in calling himself jon's father. As i said, jon would better of with friends and family that know him than a jackass like jor el.

Yeah, and Jor-El has those same powers. He'd be able to guide Jon. It was only supposed to be for the summer. In fact, Jon was only gone for 3 weeks in Earth time.

Also, you seem so fixated on not trusting Jor-El, which IMO is even a little too harsh of a judgment. At the end of the day, Jor-El is the one being victimized by the Circle. He's also the one who rescued Jon's dumb ass from the Crime Syndicate.

No it wouldn't. Only for glad handed idiots grandpa crap would matter.

I don't think name calling is very nice. Or productive.

For, normal parents son's safety will be more important than stranger with blood relation's nonsense. Unstable men do a lot harm.Any idiot can tell you that it wouldn't matter if it was grandson, son.. Etc on the othe end. Clark has seen jor el be unstable and hurt people. He is an idiot for allowing this. After lois left especially.

Except, when they last met, Clark saw Jor-El for who he was: a victim. He knew that Jor-El wasn't really responsible for his actions because the staff was mentally controlling him. He doesn't have the staff anymore.

I don't care if jor el isn't shadiest guy. He hasn't earned the trust.

But apparently Sam Lane, the guy who is currently being targeted because of his role in a clandestine spy organization and who has had a hard-on for harming Superman to the extent that in the past he's teamed up with supervillains, has? You realize your own logic is not too kind to you on this front, right?

[pageturner]

GA was always my guy and I miss his book but the character is never gone for long. I also was a big fan of the original Question and he strolled through a recent panel of JL so who knows he might be back.

[Noodle]

GA was always my guy and I miss his book but the character is never gone for long. I also was a big fan of the original Question and he strolled through a recent panel of JL so who knows he might be back.

He was used in Action Comics recently and is part of Event Leviathan. They're slowly starting to use him again.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think its premature to say that they definitely don't have a connection to Clark, even when Bendis himself says that a classic version of the relationship already exists. The interviewer asked him if the Legion either did not have any connection with Clark or if they had the classic relationship. He said they had a version of the classic relationship.

Either way, this discussion is tangential at best.



That doesn't preclude any of the things he did Pre-Flashpoint, you understand? Really, it doesn't. For all we know, he got involved in ARGUS after being kicked out of the military for his actions in the War of the Supermen arc. In fact, wasn't he in the military during Secret Origin, which was explicitly referenced as being Superman's origin again?



But they are of this reality, you understand? They only don't exist because of outside meddling by Dr. Manhattan. That's the narrative that's been set up.



I'd say that Conner probably was a part of the Death of Superman arc once again, since when he comes back in YJ, Bart instantly recognizes him. Basically everyone recognizes him and they reference the past YJ. Plus, he's even sporting the look he wore in Reign of the Supermen. So, I think its definitely implied that this is Pre-FP Conner.



Never said it was. In fact, I said HiC received a backlash that Bendis's Superman hasn't.



Yeah, because a few niche sites is equivalent to the massive backlash that King got on Twitter. [/sarcasm] Even celebrities and pro athletes were tweeting out that Tom King had assassinated Wally West's character. To be clear, I'm also not saying that the backlash that King got was comlpetely justified either, as it got way out of hand. Whenever someone sends death threats because of a fictional character's portrayal, they've lost the argument and their credibility.



I think you keep assuming that parenting is this exact science. Uh, as any parent would tell you, its not. Sometimes parents have a system. HOWEVER, most times, as kids are unpredictable, that system goes out the window. Not to mention that parenting a child with superpowers who is heir to this heroic legacy is probably a million times more unpredictable than a normal kid. So, yeah, I wouldn't say it's "out of character" for Lois and Clark to not adhere to "their system." If life will teach you anything, its that its not very kind to systems.



Uh, I went to summer camp as a kid. If I needed anything, I went to the camp counselors. Didn't see and barely talked to my parents for like that whole time. Its actually quite normal.



Again. The fact that it's a blood relative who has established that he cares about his family and preserving the Kryptonian legacy is good enough. And again, Jor-El actually searched for years on end to find Jon and rescued him ultimately. Jon was a dumb ass for just running off the way he did.



Again, why are you fixated on the "getting laid" aspect? If you hadn't seen your wife in weeks, what would you do?



Yeah, and Jor-El has those same powers. He'd be able to guide Jon. It was only supposed to be for the summer. In fact, Jon was only gone for 3 weeks in Earth time.

Also, you seem so fixated on not trusting Jor-El, which IMO is even a little too harsh of a judgment. At the end of the day, Jor-El is the one being victimized by the Circle. He's also the one who rescued Jon's dumb ass from the Crime Syndicate.



I don't think name calling is very nice. Or productive.



Except, when they last met, Clark saw Jor-El for who he was: a victim. He knew that Jor-El wasn't really responsible for his actions because the staff was mentally controlling him. He doesn't have the staff anymore.



But apparently Sam Lane, the guy who is currently being targeted because of his role in a clandestine spy organization and who has had a hard-on for harming Superman to the extent that in the past he's teamed up with supervillains, has? You realize your own logic is not too kind to you on this front, right?

Yes, sam does. If he is this new rebirth sam not the old one.who has proven himself that he is decent guy. Look man! For me i don't see the old version of sam in the current continuity. I can't prove to you this is a new guy. All i can say is that there has not been a confirmation regarding it being old sam when he was introduced during rebirth. Which usually happens when something of preflashpoint is referenced.a small flashback or dialog explaining the thing is added. In case of sam it does not happen. Being a spy is his job,its for the country. It has got nothing to do with his family and daughter. Its his professional life.

But, wally's kid don't exist in the New52. Which is the current reality .timeline changed, not same preflashpoint world anymore.This world is new52(new timeline) trying to fix itself by being in flux. So, not the same universe and therefore not a continuation of preflashpoint. It still more New52 like. Which sucks Especially for someone who didn't like new52 and loved rebirth.

did jor el establish he loves kent family before jon was given to him? No. I didn't see it. Jor el is a brainwashed individual that went through trauma and torture for nearly 20 years. He is not in his right mind and clark knew that. You don't give your kid for someone like that. It doesn't matter if it was just for summer. I wouldn't give him a 1 day. unless, i was present. Even if jor el is blood relative. Who cares about the circle they are irrelevant to what we are discussing.

Really, normally kids can contact family like you said through the counselors. If they need to.i used to,not frequently albeit . There is an option there. Here, there is none. There is an accountability there. Here, there is none. You know were the kid is. Here we don't. You know who to contact in an emergency. Here we don't.There is authority you can trust there. Here there is none. (please, don't say blood related jor el. He hasn't proven he can take care of a kitten. Let alone a kid)

Hello, did you miss the part where jon was not allowed to go back home when he wanted.or how jor el got in between kilowog and jon. Kilowog who said he can send jon home. If he wishes to.
Jor el searched for years? I didn't get that part.but,it doesn't matter anyways. jon is a kid. He is not responsible for his actions yet. Responsibility lies at the hands of the adults. Jon shouldn't have been with jor el in the first place. It is clois responsibility what happens to jon. They are his parents. Good or bad it is their responsibility what happens to jon.it is, for them to handle Jon's identity crisis and powers. Not jor el.

Jor el is dubious, mentally unstable, has an unknown past, brainwashed , tortured man who has an existential crisis. How is that accountable? He might be a victim.i said clark should be sympathetic. But So what?he is unpredictable. Letting your kid with such a person is idiocy.
I didn't call you an idiot. I just said anyone who willingly gives some mentally unstable stranger your own kid is an idiot. And i stand by it. Blood or not.
Me and my wife would do it too. If my kid wasn't missing. And The one responsible for taking care of him, left him without any means of contact. If she did, Then it would be a problem. I might not even forgive her. Safety of the child is more important than the relationship.so, first thing i will do find someone who can help.maybe the police.Leave her and find the kid.
Again, there were people on Bendis's twitter who were dissing him. It might not have been wally west big backlash. But, it was pretty big.i am not endorsing these action btw.
Edit-man!! we are really stubborn,aren't we? We have been at this for 5 pages now. Crazzzzzy!!!

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Yes, sam does. If he is this new rebirth sam not the old one.who has proven himself that he is decent guy. Look man! For me i don't see the old version of sam in the current continuity. I can't prove to you this is a new guy. All i can say is that there has not been a confirmation regarding it being old sam when he was introduced during rebirth. Which usually happens when something of preflashpoint is referenced.a small flashback or dialog explaining the thing is added. In case of sam it does not happen. Being a spy is his job,its for the country. It has got nothing to do with his family and daughter. Its his professional life.

Well, there's at least a good chance I'd say that you are probably wrong. As it has been established with this Superman, he is definitely more Pre-Flashpoint than post-Flashpoint. Anyone who thinks otherwise is likely not being completely truthful with themselves.

And so what if being a spy is his job? I fail to see how that makes Sam less suspect. His job as a spy also doesn't require him to team up with supervillains to take down Superman, now does it?

But, wally's kid don't exist in the New52. Which is the current reality .timeline changed, not same preflashpoint world anymore.This world is new52(new timeline) trying to fix itself by being in flux

Dude. If you think the current timeline is the New 52, I don't know what to tell ya. It's obviously not. Everything that defined the New 52, from the five-year timeline to the janky costumes, has been thrown out the window.

It still more New52 like. Which sucks Especially for someone who didn't like new52 and loved rebirth.

It is really not though.

did jor el establish he loves kent family before jon was given to him? No. I didn't see it.

Right before he disappeared last time, his last words to Clark were literally "I love you and I always will."

There is an option there. Here, there is none. There is an accountability there. Here, there is none. You know were the kid is. Here we don't. You know who to contact in an emergency. Here we don't.There is authority you can trust there. Here there is none. (please, don't say blood related jor el. He hasn't proven he can take care of a kitten. Let alone a kid)

Except they did have a way to reach each other. It's not the fault of either that Rogol Zaar came along and destroyed the communicator.

And Jor-El did come through for Jon when Jon needed him. For like the 10th time, Jor El was the one who rescued Jon from the Crime Syndicate. You keep ignoring those facts because it contradicts your argument.

Hello, did you miss the part where jon was not allowed to go back home when he wanted.or how jor el got in between kilowog and jon. Kilowog who said he can send jon home. If he wishes to.

Actually, you're misremembering that part. Jor-El actually offers to take Jon home. Jon tells him he'll stay. That's not on Jor-El. That's on Jon. Here's the actual page.



But, you know what, actually I misremembered myself. Jon didn't run away from Jor-El. They ran into a black hole. That's how the Syndicate got a hold of him.

Jor el searched for years? I didn't get that part.but,it doesn't matter anyways. jon is a kid. He is not responsible for his actions yet. Responsibility lies at the hands of the adults.

Here's the page.



I say if you spend years on end searching for your grandson from whom you were separated, that proves that you love your grandson.

Jon shouldn't have been with jor el in the first place. It is clois responsibility what happens to jon. They are his parents. Good or bad it is their responsibility what happens to jon.it is, for them to handle Jon's identity crisis and powers. Not jor el.

Again, for the millionth time, Jor-El is his grandfather. Grandparents tend to have some influence on the growth of a child and are even given a fair amount of responsibility when it comes to raising them. There's nothing wrong with that either. For example, in my family, my sister actually lived with my grandparents while my parents lived overseas for a little while. And, before you ask, it's​ not because they'd abandoned their kid. They needed to do that for their careers. Also, my dad had a very strained relationship with my grandfather who was a pretty volatile individual. BUT, my dad knew that my grandfather loved my sister and would do whatever for her.

Again, there were people on Bendis's twitter who were dissing him. It might not have been wally west big backlash. But, it was pretty big.i am not endorsing these action btw.

Apparently not that big since it happened and I literally heard nothing about it until now. I heard plenty about what happened to King, though. And I follow both Bendis and King on Twitter.

[phonogram12]

I am straight up loving this back and forth, no joke.

[manwhohaseverything]

Well, there's at least a good chance I'd say that you are probably wrong. As it has been established with this Superman, he is definitely more Pre-Flashpoint than post-Flashpoint. Anyone who thinks otherwise is likely not being completely truthful with themselves.

And so what if being a spy is his job? I fail to see how that makes Sam less suspect. His job as a spy also doesn't require him to team up with supervillains to take down Superman, now does it?


Dude. If you think the current timeline is the New 52, I don't know what to tell ya. It's obviously not. Everything that defined the New 52, from the five-year timeline to the janky costumes, has been thrown out the window.



It is really not though.



Right before he disappeared last time, his last words to Clark were literally "I love you and I always will."



Except they did have a way to reach each other. It's not the fault of either that Rogol Zaar came along and destroyed the communicator.

And Jor-El did come through for Jon when Jon needed him. For like the 10th time, Jor El was the one who rescued Jon from the Crime Syndicate. You keep ignoring those facts because it contradicts your argument.



Actually, you're misremembering that part. Jor-El actually offers to take Jon home. Jon tells him he'll stay. That's not on Jor-El. That's on Jon. Here's the actual page.



But, you know what, actually I misremembered myself. Jon didn't run away from Jor-El. They ran into a black hole. That's how the Syndicate got a hold of him.



Here's the page.



I say if you spend years on end searching for your grandson from whom you were separated, that proves that you love your grandson.



Again, for the millionth time, Jor-El is his grandfather. Grandparents tend to have some influence on the growth of a child and are even given a fair amount of responsibility when it comes to raising them. There's nothing wrong with that either. For example, in my family, my sister actually lived with my grandparents while my parents lived overseas for a little while. And, before you ask, it's​ not because they'd abandoned their kid. They needed to do that for their careers. Also, my dad had a very strained relationship with my grandfather who was a pretty volatile individual. BUT, my dad knew that my grandfather loved my sister and would do whatever for her.



Apparently not that big since it happened and I literally heard nothing about it until now. I heard plenty about what happened to King, though. And I follow both Bendis and King on Twitter.

His professional life. Requires him to do what is best for his country. Sam is pretty upfront about it. So far he has shown no signs of being thaddeus ross ripoff. And for the first time an actual character who has conflicts, convictions and a drive. Clark is a vigilante. Clark has worked with villains as well. It would be hypocritical of clark to judge him on that. Besides, unlike jor el all sam wanted was to spend time with lois and jon at their place. He didn't want to take jon away from their supervision. As i said he never overstepped his boundaries.
Dude, "i love you" is just three words doesn't mean anything.A lot people told me i love you. Doesn't mean i will give them my kid.

Yeah!it feels new52 made a comeback after bendis, didio.. Etc took over, doomsday clock took a hiatus, supsons got cancelled,titans got shafted, wally got butchered.. Etc.

That page with lanterns felt like emotional black mail to me. He came in when jon was talking to the guys Interrupted their important convo and they had to fly of.And he said he would but didn't . The kid clearly feels unsafe there and wants to go home.the guy doesn't even talk for an entire summer to him. That is not normal. First of all, his in space without any friends. He is lonely. He instinct would be to run for it. And jon is an expert at running away. He has done that before. That's what kid do. Last time, it was towards Damian's home when they were moving from Hamilton .Clark knew where he will be before jon could even make the decision.

So what? How does that prove jor el can be trusted or accountable? He lost the kid. Some genius, he couldn't even track him. Bruce wayne a human had tracking system and other nonsense just for damian. And clark became convinced that jon needs it as well. Clark had always been able to track jon. Jor el couldn't do that. He made the jon feel unsafe.

What was jor el going to say to Clark, if he didn't search for jon?clark would eventually search for jon. Clark would eventually find and confront jor el. And i believe, clark when gets to know. He wouldn't be too happy. Jor el might get his face punched in (especially, if it was the old over protective dad clark in rebirth). There was no other choice for jor el. He can't take on the wrath of clark kent.

Not unstable one's and the one's who are complete strangers should not and don't . I lived with my grandparents and my aunt(fathers sister) as well.that doesn't mean anything. I never said grandparents don't influence kids nor did i say grandparents can't raise kids. I said, jor el and people like jor el should not be given free rains over your 10 year old kid. Only idiots would allow it. Clark has been behaving like one since the end man of steel series. I can't believe this is the same guy who couldn't even trust bruce with his kid. And bruce wayne is like a brother to him.

I had known my grandparents and aunt ever since i can remember. They hadn't shown any unstable tendencies and shown they can take my responsibility .they had to pass litmus tests by authorities as well before they were allowed to take me in. Doesn't mean i am going to give my kid to my father without supervision. Because i don't know my father. If he had unstable tendencies even more so and especially so.
You don't get to take care of a kid just cause your blood related. You have to prove that you can be responsible with him. Clark used to be like that too. He was pretty harsh with Damian.
There were plenty of people on twitter. Also, there was a reddit ama with bendis where he was basically asked about jon the whole time. But people were respectful there. Which was great to see.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

His professional life. Requires him to do what is best for his country. Sam is pretty upfront about it. So far he has shown no signs of being thaddeus ross ripoff. And for the first time an actual character who has conflicts, convictions and a drive. Clark is a vigilante. Clark has worked with villains as well. It would be hypocritical of clark to judge him on that.

You can't be serious. Sam Lane teamed up with supervillains with the purpose of targeting Superman and all Kryptonians with the intent to kill them. I'm pretty sure Clark's main focus when teaming up with villains was not genocide. Also, that would imply that genocidal acts are excusable if they are "what's best for the country."

Besides, unlike jor el all sam wanted was to spend time with lois and jon at their place. He didn't want to take jon away from their supervision. As i said he never overstepped his boundaries.

Well, I'd say Sam overstepped his boundaries the many times he tried to kill Jon's dad. HOWEVER, once again, Jor-El straight up asked Clark and Lois to have Jon for the summer and was actually right that Jon was going through an identity crisis and needed some guidance. You can call that overstepping, but in the end, Jor-El could sense something in Jon that Lois and Clark couldn't.

Dude, "i love you" is just three words doesn't mean anything.A lot people told me i love you. Doesn't mean i will give them my kid.

So you're going from "Jor-El hasn't done anything to establish he loves Clark and his family" to "well that doesn't mean anything"?? Okay. Whatever.

Yeah!it feels new52 made a comeback after bendis, didio.. Etc took over, doomsday clock took a hiatus, supsons got cancelled,titans got shafted, wally got butchered.. Etc.

Uh, Bendis's run has only reiterated how much this Superman is not inspired by the New 52. Bendis is the one who insisted on the trunks being brought back. He's also the one who brought Young Justice back, with Pre-FP Conner and Bart and all. If New 52 was making a comeback with Bendis, then Superman and Lois wouldn't be married, Superman would be dating Wonder Woman, Jimmy Olson and the rest of the world would know his identity, and that hideous armor would be back, just to name a few things.

I think people are jumping the gun in terms of the reasons as to why Doomsday Clock has been delayed. I don't know the reasons. I think it's stupid to try and guess at those reasons without any real evidence.

Also, the Titans and Wally West were getting shafted before the New 52. Unfortunately, that's something that's been happening for way too long. At the very least, Wally is getting a solo series that can hopefully redeem him.

That page with lanterns felt like emotional black mail to me. He came in when jon was talking to the guys Interrupted their important convo and they had to fly of.And he said he would but didn't .

I'd say that's projecting. Kilowog and Arisia flew off because it was a a personal matter to be worked out between Jor-El and Jon. Also, Jor-El didn't take Jon home because Jon told him not to.

The kid clearly feels unsafe there and wants to go home.the guy doesn't even talk for an entire summer to him. That is not normal. First of all, his in space without any friends. He is lonely. He instinct would be to run for it. And jon is an expert at running away. He has done that before. That's what kid do. Last time, it was towards Damian's home when they were moving from Hamilton .Clark knew where he will be before jon could even make the decision.

Yeah, except that would be a shitty thing to do to an old man who has offered to show you the galaxy in an effort to broaden your horizons. In that issue, there's a scene Jon even is about to admit to Jor-El that he's been kind of ungrateful.

So what? How does that prove jor el can be trusted or accountable? He lost the kid. Some genius, he couldn't even track him. Bruce wayne a human had tracking system and other nonsense just for damian.

Okay, you think Bruce could track Damian through a black hole that could transport him to another dimension?

He made the jon feel unsafe.

Yeah, no, I wouldn't say he makes Jon feel unsafe in that scene. I'd say he makes Jon feel guilty, which is something incredibly different, and actually all too common in grandchild-grandparent relationships.

What was jor el going to say to Clark, if he didn't search for jon?clark would eventually search for jon. Clark would eventually find and confront jor el. And i believe, clark when gets to know. He wouldn't be too happy. Jor el might get his face punched in (especially, if it was the old over protective dad clark in rebirth). There was no other choice for jor el. He can't take on the wrath of clark kent.

Again, you just seem adamant to make Jor-El out to be a bad guy. Of course Jor-El had motive to find and care for Jon outside of facing Clark's wrath. Jon is part of Jor-El's family for crying out loud.

Clark has been behaving like one since the end man of steel series. I can't believe this is the same guy who couldn't even trust bruce with his kid. And bruce wayne is like a brother to him.

Yes, because Bruce Wayne is an expert in what it means to be Kryptonian and has the means to show Jon across the galaxy to expand his understanding of his heritage...

You don't get to take care of a kid just cause your blood related. You have to prove that you can be responsible with him. Clark used to be like that too. He was pretty harsh with Damian.

Well, again, Jon was obviously going through something that only Jor-El could help him with. And I could go into way more detail on this. However, I think its important to point out that this is comic books. People make decisions in a state of enhanced circumstances and heightened stakes that don't exist in the real world. So, comparison between the two tends to not be the most informative. Would it be wise to give your child to their estranged grandparent for the summer in a normal situation? Maybe, maybe not. But then again, Jon is not an ordinary child. He's the son of possibly the greatest hero the universe has ever known and a superpowerful character himself.

There were plenty of people on twitter. Also, there was a reddit ama with bendis where he was basically asked about jon the whole time. But people were respectful there. Which was great to see.

Again, wouldn't say that constitutes a huge backlash.

[dietrich]

They're likely Comicsgate guys. :P

But, here are just some reviews for the most recent issue:
https://www.youdontreadcomics.com/co...10/superman-13
https://www.superpoweredfancast.com/superman-13-review/
https://comicbooklegion.com/index.ph...man-13-review/



The context being that:

a) Jon himself wanted to go and said this is what he needed
b) Jor El is, like it or not, his grandfather and actually did come to Jon's rescue and searched endlessly for Jon when he went missing. I don't care if Clark had Damian go through a litmus test. Damian was also raised by a supervillain and is not blood-related to Jon.
c) Lois was pretty useless up in space due to her not having powers and likely being a liability to Jon and Jor El
d) Jon had literally just saved an entire race from slavery
e) The title is dealing with the consequences of Lois's decision. You're acting as if Bendis is saying that everything ended up hunky dorey. He's not.

I mean, I keep telling you these things and you keep ignoring them.

Okay I have to object. what does raised by a supervillain have to do with it? Are we also forgetting that Damian was also raised by heroes. Is currently a hero and has given his life twice to protect others. Damian is a hero.

He has put his life on the line to protect Jon when heroes who weren't raised by supervillain would not.
Because being blood related means what? Cass, Damian, Emiko, jason Todd etc are all proof that being blood doesn't mean anything. Some of those were killed by their blood relations.

On the thread topic, the Batfamily are pretty much in a similar situation to other legacy characters I will say that batman fans have a lot more choice. He is in a lot of stuff but things might be looking up. With the success of characters like WW and Aquaman in outside media this could prompt DC to take more risk and stop betting everything on Batman.

The superman heavy upcoming animated movies slate and the various non batman related TV shows are already reflecting this

[manwhohaseverything]

You can't be serious. Sam Lane teamed up with supervillains with the purpose of targeting Superman and all Kryptonians with the intent to kill them. I'm pretty sure Clark's main focus when teaming up with villains was not genocide. Also, that would imply that genocidal acts are excusable if they are "what's best for the country."



Well, I'd say Sam overstepped his boundaries the many times he tried to kill Jon's dad. HOWEVER, once again, Jor-El straight up asked Clark and Lois to have Jon for the summer and was actually right that Jon was going through an identity crisis and needed some guidance. You can call that overstepping, but in the end, Jor-El could sense something in Jon that Lois and Clark couldn't.



So you're going from "Jor-El hasn't done anything to establish he loves Clark and his family" to "well that doesn't mean anything"?? Okay. Whatever.



Uh, Bendis's run has only reiterated how much this Superman is not inspired by the New 52. Bendis is the one who insisted on the trunks being brought back. He's also the one who brought Young Justice back, with Pre-FP Conner and Bart and all. If New 52 was making a comeback with Bendis, then Superman and Lois wouldn't be married, Superman would be dating Wonder Woman, Jimmy Olson and the rest of the world would know his identity, and that hideous armor would be back, just to name a few things.

I think people are jumping the gun in terms of the reasons as to why Doomsday Clock has been delayed. I don't know the reasons. I think it's stupid to try and guess at those reasons without any real evidence.

Also, the Titans and Wally West were getting shafted before the New 52. Unfortunately, that's something that's been happening for way too long. At the very least, Wally is getting a solo series that can hopefully redeem him.



I'd say that's projecting. Kilowog and Arisia flew off because it was a a personal matter to be worked out between Jor-El and Jon. Also, Jor-El didn't take Jon home because Jon told him not to.



Yeah, except that would be a shitty thing to do to an old man who has offered to show you the galaxy in an effort to broaden your horizons. In that issue, there's a scene Jon even is about to admit to Jor-El that he's been kind of ungrateful.



Okay, you think Bruce could track Damian through a black hole that could transport him to another dimension?



Yeah, no, I wouldn't say he makes Jon feel unsafe in that scene. I'd say he makes Jon feel guilty, which is something incredibly different, and actually all too common in grandchild-grandparent relationships.



Again, you just seem adamant to make Jor-El out to be a bad guy. Of course Jor-El had motive to find and care for Jon outside of facing Clark's wrath. Jon is part of Jor-El's family for crying out loud.



Yes, because Bruce Wayne is an expert in what it means to be Kryptonian and has the means to show Jon across the galaxy to expand his understanding of his heritage...


Well, again, Jon was obviously going through something that only Jor-El could help him with. And I could go into way more detail on this. However, I think its important to point out that this is comic books. People make decisions in a state of enhanced circumstances and heightened stakes that don't exist in the real world. So, comparison between the two tends to not be the most informative. Would it be wise to give your child to their estranged grandparent for the summer in a normal situation? Maybe, maybe not. But then again, Jon is not an ordinary child. He's the son of possibly the greatest hero the universe has ever known and a superpowerful character himself.



Again, wouldn't say that constitutes a huge backlash.

I was talking about current rebirth sam with out any prior continuity history.You know the one that was almost executed in another country for doing the right thing.

If you ask me,They should not have dropped reborn suit so soon. If they really wanted something classic for the 80th anniversary. They should have gone for atleast the original golden age costume or Fleischer design.This one with the cuffs suck. No, offence to trunks but clark needs to change his costumes once in a while. Clois are married. But, they don't feel like family or Jon's parents anymore. It feels like goku took a vacation from dragon ball and became Jon's replacement "family".

Saying "i love you" is like saying anything. It doesn't mean much. I said doing something to show he cares and loves. Like, you kniw spending time to with jon and clark without overstepping, being nice and honest, earning trust, being there for them.. Etc. You know things you do when you love your family.like damian did with jon(except for being nice lol. But hey! He was honest) . this Jor el hasn't done any of these. He is a stranger. He is not the starfather.so, saving baby clark doesn't count. This guy has spent last thirty years being brainwashed and shady. He has become a different person (an *******. If you ask me)


Maybe bruce can. He did go to apocalypse for his son. But that isn't the point. Jor el didn't. He should be.so much for being whatever-th level intellect, genius.. Etc


No, it wouldn't. Especially, if you are feeling lonely, afraid, unsafe and uncomfortable. Jor el didn't talk to jon for a summer. That is not normal. That is neglect. Neglect can have different reaction especially when you are alone. Feeling unsafe is one of them. Besides, jor el would have been able to see it coming if he had known jon or spend time with him before. He didn't. Had he? Damian would have seen it coming.clois(old one) would have. heck! Even kathy would have. He is a kid. That's what kids do when they feel uncomfortable . This entire trip is just jon running away from rejection from the titans and feeling of burden of "the superman"'s legacy and expectation. He had been in similar situations before. The difference is the people i mentioned (clois, damian, kathy.. Etc) didn't let jon run away. But, made him face his fear, anxiety and the world. This time it didn't happen from the beginning. Bendis's Clois sent him away. Jor el didn't do anything in space.

Exactly, Jor el made jon feel guilty. That is playing mind games. He got in between glc and jon. So, they had to leave. Because glc thought they had no authority.he didn't relieve Jon's anxiety and or heck! Send him back, if his feelings were strong.

Because i don't like this jor el. I think clark wouldn't as well. He has been nothing but douchebag and a jerk. He made fun of Clark's philosophy and his never ending battle. He trivialised what the kents gave clark and his upbringing. Worst of all thinks nothing of what clark has built with his family, his career, for city and world at large. He does these without really knowing clark too. As if the douchebag-el can do better. Yeah! I know blood. Sorry but, I don't feel the love jor el has for jon. Heck! I felt the twisted love Ultraman had for jon. But, no i don't see it with jor el. besides, i don't blame jor el for jon. I blame irresponsible and idiot parents of jon aka Bendis's clois.


Bruce wayne or Clark kent didn't have to. Was the kents expert on krypton? No. Could they give clark a galaxy trip? No. Clark was ok. wasn't he? Jon isn't even full kryptonIan,like clark

What would that be? So far bendis hasn't shown it yet. Jon's powers and emotional problems are not something that could not be handled by clois. If they couldn't they aren't fit to be parents. The kent sr had tougher time with clark.they didn't even know what clark was. And as i said. Superman is "super" filtered through "man"s lense. So, clark has to adhere to the man's desires, logic and common sense.. Etc on fantastical scale. He can't just rid of it. If he takes his dog to a walk. He may take it past mars,but he has to follow and do what dog owners adhere's to. He has to know when to let the dog go off his leesh and when to tighten it. Otherwise, it would brake suspension of disbelief. That is the reason clark has a job, a family, a house and a dog(not an alien Creature. But a superpowered dog).So,some of the normal common sense applies.He might be that. But he is also a kid. Who has now lost his childhood because of his idiotic parents and douchebag biological grandfather.

But, it was a backlash none the less. Keep in mind, bendis has beend defending this with same vigour as king has his wally west. And size doesn't matter. Most people would love it if a portion of this arc is retconned.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

I was talking about current rebirth sam with out any prior continuity history.You know the one that was almost executed in another country for doing the right thing.

Again, it does not erase his past actions. I'm sorry, but with Superman Reborn, there's nothing to suggest that Sam isn't the same guy who tried to kill Superman multiple times.

Saying "i love you" is like saying anything. It doesn't mean much.

Really? I suggest you walk up to a random person and tell them you love them, then, and see if it means something to them.

Jor el didn't. He should be.so much for being whateverth level intellect, genius.. Etc

Again, you keep forgetting that Jor-El saved Jon from Superwoman. So, apparently, he was able to track Jon, even if it took him a long time.

No, it wouldn't. Especially, if you are feeling lonely, afraid, unsafe and uncomfortable.

Even Jon said it would have been. I'm sorry, but you're just wrong on this.

Exactly, Jor el made jon feel guilty. That is playing mind games. He got in between glc and jon. So, they had to leave. Because glc thought they had no authority.he didn't relieve Jon's anxiety and or heck! Send him back, if his feelings were strong.

There's nothing to suggest that Jor-El intentionally made Jon feel guilty. Jon was just able to sense that Jor-El would have been saddened by Jon leaving. That's actually a very common thing in families. And Jor-El didn't "get in between" the GLC and Jon. He just walked up. He didn't shoe them away.

Because i don't like this jor el. I think clark wouldn't as well.

Yeah, and that's obviously coloring your perception of everything he does and says, even when there's not much evidence to back up your assertions.

He made fun of Clark's philosophy and his never ending battle. He trivialised what the kents gave clark and his upbringing.

Uh, no, not really. He said raising Jon on Earth might be limiting for someone like him. Maybe he has a point. Maybe Jon does need a stronger connection to jis Kryptonian roots than either of his parents can give him. Clark never really got to know Krypton as well as he wanted to, even though he strived to do so.

Worst of all think nothing of clark has built with his family, his career, for city and world at large. He does these without really knowing clark too. As if douchebag el can do better. Yeah! I know blood. Sorry but, I don't feel the love jor el has for jon. Heck! I felt the twisted love Ultraman had for jon. But, no i don't see it with jor el. besides, i don't blame jor el for jon. I blame irresponsible and idiot parents of jon aka Bendis's clois.

Okay, I think you're going a bit into your own personal perceptions here. Again, none of this is necessarily supported by what's actually on the page. It's mostly just about how much you apparently hate him.

Bruce wayne or Clark kent didn't have to. Was the kents expert on krypton? No. Could they give clark a galaxy trip? No. Clark was ok. wasn't he? Jon isn't even full kryptonIan,like clark

Except a lot of comics, even from back in the day, actually show Clark longing to know Krypton better than what he does know about it. I mean, that would suck for Clark to rob Jon of that chance.

What would that be? So far bendis hasn't shown it yet.

Uh, a major identity crisis? I thought we already covered this.

And as i said. Superman is "super" filtered through "man"s lense. So, clark has to adhere to the man's desires, logic and common sense.. Etc on fantastical scale. He can't just rid of it. If he takes his dog to a walk. He may take it past mars,but he has to follow and do what dog owners adhere's to. He has to know when to let the dog go off his leesh and when to tighten it. Otherwise, it would brake suspension of disbelief. That is the reason clark has a job, a family, a house and a dog(not an alien Creature. But a superpowered dog).So,some of the normal common sense applies.He might be that. But he is also a kid. Who has now lost his childhood because of his idiotic parents and douchebag biological grandfather.

Except when the dog is Krypto, who he routinely brings into battle with him. And, taking this a bit farther, Clark was already what you'd consider a bad parent by simply allowing Jon to become Superboy in the first place. After all, didn't we see Jon go to Apokolips, fight Bizarro, go up against Manchester Black, etc. all under Clark's watch? In every one of those scenarios, Jon could have been maimed, killed, disintegrated, or any number of things. So, I fail to see how him going with his grandfather is apparently a unacceptable all of a sudden.

See? Real world logic doesn't necessarily apply in a case like this. This is comic books.

But, it was a backlash none the less. Keep in mind, bendis has beend defending this with same vigour as king has his wally west. And size doesn't matter. Most people would love it if a portion of this arc is retconned.

By what could be considered very few as compared to the vast majority.