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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Default When did comic book deaths become meaningless

    Obviously, when they became over used and there were fakeouts and actual resurrections as a consequence of too many deaths of deaths of too-important characters. I know it was 1980s for Jean Grey when she turned out not to be dead, but did she set a trend for non-belief in deaths or did that take longer? I'm not asking why - I'm just looking for a certain year or certain event that changed reader mindset.

    I started reading comics in 1994. Marvel at the time. Reed Richards was either lost or supposedly dead, but I never considered it would last, and neither did anyone I saw post about it online. By time I got into Spider-Man, Mary Jane had miscarried, but there was some discussion on message boards of people who didn't buy it. So when did the day come when no believed death without hard evidence (and even then didn't think it would be permanent)? Certainly, these examples were both after the Death of Superman. And I can't think anyone expected that to be permanent. To be fair, he's an absolutely major character, so did the same rules apply to B-List heroes then? The idea that dead didn't mean dead forever?
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-18-2019 at 04:58 PM.

  2. #2
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Let's keep this thread DC-related, guys.
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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Post Under the Red Hood, I believe, is when dead characters began popping back up. Especially in stories like "Brightest Day".

  4. #4
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Post Under the Red Hood, I believe, is when dead characters began popping back up. Especially in stories like "Brightest Day".
    Ironically dead was meant to be stay dead at the end of Blackest Night...

    But I think the real sign of the revolving door of death was when Barry came back.

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Jason Todd and Barry Allen are way too late, IMO.

    Alfred was much earlier, but he didn't start a trend.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-18-2019 at 05:33 PM.

  6. #6
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Jason Todd and Barry Allen are way too late, IMO.

    Alfred was much earlier, but he didn't start a trend.
    Alfred's return was also due to the television show's utilization of him, rather than the DC managerial whims and/or publicity stunts that we have been immersed in in more recent times.
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  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    A whole event was built on how meaningless Death already was in comics.
    Last edited by Güicho; 07-18-2019 at 05:44 PM.

  8. #8
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Sure. And the Doom Patrol predate Jason Todd on resurrection (I think) with Cliff coming back much sooner than others.

    But really, Jason, Barry, Doom Patrol - those aren't the ones I'm thinking of. I'm thinking of when characters die and are back within 5 years or so. That's when they became meaningless to me. When you knew they'd be back soon and were just waiting out the time in between. When did that become a thing? Or rather, when did everyone realize that was a thing?

    A whole event was built on how meaningless Death already was in comics.
    That was big question for me. Did Death of Superman make death (for big enough characters, at least) meaningless or was it indicative of death already being used as a temporary state?

  9. #9
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Death stopped meaning anything once characters who did die brushed their own death & resurrection off as if it was just an average Tuesday. It That’s what makes truly death meaningless, not the amount of time a character spent being dead.

  10. #10
    Fantastic Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post


    A whole event was built on how meaningless Death already was in comics.
    WHEN? When did Death become meaningless in comics? Okay, it happened before "The Death of Superman" but when specifically?

  11. #11
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    Death stopped meaning anything once characters who did die brushed their own death & resurrection off as if it was just an average Tuesday. It That’s what makes truly death meaningless, not the amount of time a character spent being dead.
    Not for me. For me it's meaningless because instead of sympathizing with the surviving loved ones, I'm just like "hurry up and get done with this so I can get my character back." It's when it's meaningless to me as a reader, rather than to the characters themselves.

    WHEN? When did Death become meaningless in comics? Okay, it happened before "The Death of Superman" but when specifically?
    Great question.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Let's keep this thread DC-related, guys.
    For this specific question I dont think it matters. Whichever company did it first - readers were either going to buy heavy or reject it and whichever way it plays out the other company will be watching like a hawk

  13. #13
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Not for me. For me it's meaningless because instead of sympathizing with the surviving loved ones, I'm just like "hurry up and get done with this so I can get my character back." It's when it's meaningless to me as a reader, rather than to the characters themselves.
    But the lack of meaning to the character should make it meaningless to the reader. Why would you bother sympathizing with the surviving loved ones knowing that when the character comes back, the character who died will be perfectly fine as if nothing ever happened? It’s not like they’ll ever have to deal with the real consequences of it.

  14. #14
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Jason Todd and Barry Allen are way too late, IMO.
    But they were also the "sacred" deaths, Barry specially.

    There was a revolving door already in place, for sure, but I'd say that those 2 were the ones where Dc went "screw it, no death matters"
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  15. #15
    Incredible Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Some parent characters stay dead, but that is when their death is motivation and or trauma for the main characters.

    Batman's parents mostly stay dead, except when elseworlds ones can turn-up, which I wish they didn't do. So far Batwoman's mom has stayed dead, I hope she doesn't randomly turn-up from an elseworld.

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