Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 26 of 26
  1. #16
    Spectacular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    140

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Kelly View Post
    I find it interesting that now people think of Spider-Man as being about a young high school kid who gets super-powers and the conflct between his life as a kid and his life as a super-hero. It always seemed to me that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko brushed past that part of Peter Parker's life and he grew up in a hurry. He might have been in his late teens or early twenties, but he was certainly a man and his powers made him an adult all the time. Now, it's like those few stories about Peter as an awkward high school kid are the feature.
    Peter was certainly a high school kid when he originally debuted, but he graduated high school by the end of the Sixties and was a college graduate by the late Seventies and his popularity only increased from there. Which is why the "Tim Drake has to stay 16-18" argument irritates me because Spidey proved decades ago (as did Dick FWIW) that with good writing this is not the case (and bad writing never helps).

  2. #17
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,243

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrock Holmes View Post
    Peter was certainly a high school kid when he originally debuted, but he graduated high school by the end of the Sixties and was a college graduate by the late Seventies and his popularity only increased from there. Which is why the "Tim Drake has to stay 16-18" argument irritates me because Spidey proved decades ago (as did Dick FWIW) that with good writing this is not the case (and bad writing never helps).
    I definitely agree about Tim. And I'd say all the fab five Titans had some good stories as grown ups. Though Dick and Donna more in the pre-COIE era than the others (who were still allowed to grow up). I think it's even weirder with Tim since he's not in highschool anymore. Why not just keep him 5 years older than Damian of New52 (at least I thought that was the gap) and make him 18? It's not like he's the one aging Bruce.

    I'd like to see what can be done with Billy, and, of course, he was similarly aged to Tim preboot, and Tim should be older, but they compressed all the younger Bats' ages ridiculously.

    The one thing for Billy though, is that his original shtick was the kid/grown-hero bit. Especially later when he was much turns-into-hero instead of hero-replaces-him. Of course, early on, he pretty much functioned as an adult. He did not attend school, held down a job, rented a room, etc. Later, this was less the case. Time change, and maintaining grades was a thing (I remember him discussing with Courtney), as were other kid-like things. Animated versions (at least some) de-aged him a bit (he was originally 12 when he became Captain Marvel and aged similar to real-time for a couple years) to hype that difference. But eventually, if they don't keep rebooting, he has to grow up. And he needs to be developed enough that there's still something interesting about him then.

  3. #18
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,247

    Default

    It doesn't matter.

    Billy Batson has to stay youthful because that is what the whole concept/character hinges on.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

  4. #19
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    43,726

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    It doesn't matter.

    Billy Batson has to stay youthful because that is what the whole concept/character hinges on.
    Yeah, it kind of defeats the point if Billy is getting up to the same age as when he transforms.

  5. #20
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Captain Marvel/Shazam integrated into the DC Universe in 1987 in a miniseries by Roy Thomas. I have not had the luxury to read this miniseries, but I assume that Billy Batson was around 10 to 13 when that occured. Flash forward to the "A Lonely Place of Dying" storyline in the Batman and New Teen Titans books and you see the first appearance of Tim Drake who was also in a similar age range.

    Roughly thirty years later and a lot has changed for the character of Tim Drake. Pre Flashpoint during Fabien Nicieza's Red Robin run Drake was college age. If Tim Drake and Billy Batson are similar ages then shouldn't Pre-Flashpoint Billy Batson also be college age? This kinda defeats the purpose of the character.

    Obviously in New Fifty Two-Rebirth continuity, Tim Drake got slightly de-aged, but Billy Batson being in his late teens still is incredibly awkward considering the entire appeal of the Captain Marvel-Billy Batson dynamic is the contrast between the childishness of Batson and the adult characteristics of the Captain persona.

    What's the explanation for this? What's the solution to this? How can you explain Captain Marvel being around when Wally West started his tenure as the Flash when he's basically been portrayed as a little kid all his history?
    Billy Batson was depicted as being in his early twenties during the "Future's End" series (2014-15), and was depicted as being 19 years old as recent as Young Justice: Outsiders (Season 3). However, with the reboot of the DCU (52, Nu-52, Rebirth, etc), Billy is back at being 16 years old now, as seen in the recent SHAZAM! series. And as some have already commented, the concept of SHAZAM! works better as a "kid power-fantasy", where a boy (teenager or otherwise) can say a magic word and become a "Superman". Personally, such a series featuring such a character would work only as a kid power fantasy, and would end with Billy grown up, and ready to become the new guardian/wizard of the Rock of Eternity while appointing someone else as his "champion" (which happened in "Trials of SHAZAM!", when Billy became the new guardian/wizard, while Freddy Freeman became his champion).

    However, the more hardcore fans wouldn't like such a progression, so Billy must remain a child, and must remain champion of the guardian/wizard of the Rock of Eternity. Go figure.

  6. #21
    Fantastic Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    417

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, it kind of defeats the point if Billy is getting up to the same age as when he transforms.
    Which means that either Billy is "promoted" at some point (see: Trials of SHAZAM!) while anointing another kid to be the new champion, stays forever young and becomes a magical creature (see: New Frontier), or he retires and relinquishes his role to another kid. Those are the choices in order to keep the "kid power fantasy" consistent.

  7. #22
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    1,243

    Default

    Yeah, it kind of defeats the point if Billy is getting up to the same age as when he transforms.
    I wouldn't mind it. Worked for Freddy.

  8. #23
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    17,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, it kind of defeats the point if Billy is getting up to the same age as when he transforms.
    As Mary pretty much is now, considering she's about to turn 18. She's the oldest of the gang though.

    As for the continuity, everything Shazam related pre-New 52 is no longer canon - that's the reason he's still a teenager. Billy is 16, and has actually aged a year since getting his powers. I do wonder though, that father that showed up... could he also be called Billy Batson? Perhaps he's the pre-Flashpoint version, grown up and depowered. That would also explain Billy and Mary no longer being twins, and Freddy's different hair colour.

  9. #24
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    4,599

    Default

    I was under the impression that Ordway explained away Billy's prolonged time as a youth by explaining that Fawcett City had been enchanted by Iblis The Invincible in the Golden Age so that it existed in a kind of perpetual time warp that kept everything and everyone the way it was in the 1940s & 50s.

    That worked better for me than the Bronze Age suspendium explanation in which seemingly everyone connected to the Captain Marvel mythos was stuck in suspended animation for decades until they were freed by DC gaining the rights to publish their Shazam comics.

  10. #25
    Standing Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    12,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    . . . they were freed by DC gaining the rights to publish their Shazam comics.
    As that's the true explanation, it's the one that makes the most sense.
    celebrating 50 years of 4 beatles crossing a zebra

  11. #26
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    7,247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    Which means that either Billy is "promoted" at some point (see: Trials of SHAZAM!) while anointing another kid to be the new champion, stays forever young and becomes a magical creature (see: New Frontier), or he retires and relinquishes his role to another kid. Those are the choices in order to keep the "kid power fantasy" consistent.
    Or, they ignore all that and just tell fun stories for everyone to enjoy.

    Set it all on THUNDERWORLD, if you have to.
    Follow your inner moonlight, do not hide the madness. -Ginsberg

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •