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  1. #46
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Look at all of human history and its mythological endeavors, internal coherence was not a priority. These stories are simply supposed to resonate with us on a human level. Tell great stories and I'm confident no one's going to care if the timeline makes sense.
    I'm someone. So I'm confident someone will care.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    I dislike the Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns and the Killing Joke. Other's think these are the greatest stories ever told.

    These are not the stories I wan to read when I pickup an issue of Batgirl or Batwoman or Tim Drake: Whatever-His-Name-Is-Now.
    Quick question: why? Is it because of personal taste or how you feel about continuity?
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    Quick question: why? Is it because of personal taste or how you feel about continuity?
    personal taste.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    personal taste.
    Completely fair.

    So does this mean you are more in favor of a looser continuity/timeline where writers are allowed to ignore these stories as they see fit?
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  5. #50
    Fantastic Member Ulysses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I'm someone. So I'm confident someone will care.
    This will sound snippy but I mean it sincerely. If you read a story you loved about a character you loved but that story had continuity inconsistent with stories about the same character told 30 years prior would you consider the story to be a bad story?

    What I'm driving at is that story trumps timeline, every time, hands down. There is no amount of internal timeline consistency that will smooth over a bad story. But a good story will make me forget an inconsistent timeline in an instant.

    For Didio to make an announcement about fixing the timeline is barely news to me. The fact that they even are spending resources on this is actually bad news to me. It betrays their messed up priorities. Forget about the timeline and clarify for yourself and your staff what it is about your stories that makes them timeless and important. Make that your priority. Story is king.
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    This will sound snippy but I mean it sincerely. If you read a story you loved about a character you loved but that story had continuity inconsistent with stories about the same character told 30 years prior would you consider the story to be a bad story?

    What I'm driving at is that story trumps timeline, every time, hands down. There is no amount of internal timeline consistency that will smooth over a bad story. But a good story will make me forget an inconsistent timeline in an instant.

    For Didio to make an announcement about fixing the timeline is barely news to me. The fact that they even are spending resources on this is actually bad news to me. It betrays their messed up priorities. Forget about the timeline and clarify for yourself and your staff what it is about your stories that makes them timeless and important. Make that your priority. Story is king.


    I generally try to not tell people how to enjoy their stories, but enjoying a single story for what it is is far easier than expecting every story to make sense or become more enjoyable because of a made up timeline.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  7. #52
    Incredible Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Dude what? Pre-Crisis had no continuity, there were no long running storylines and the writers just did whatever they wanted. Origins changed, characterizations changed, stories were retconned to take place on different Earths, Pre-Crisis was such a mess itís why they did CoIE in the first place.
    That's simply not true, and I say this as a firm post-Crisis era supporter.

    While the period between the Golden Age and the Silver Age was definitely one of confusion and flux, once Barry Allen, Hal Jordan, and the rest of the Silver Age heroes debuted DC had a clear, established history. Further, Green Lantern, Teen Titans, Legion of Superheroes, Batman, and Flash all had long, continuous story arcs prior to Crisis on Infinite Earths.

    The only reason why DC did Crisis was because they didn't want a multiverse and multiple versions of their characters running around. They also wanted a reason to make wholesale changes to Superman and Wonder Woman. As most of that fell by the wayside in the 90's anyway, that excuse doesn't hold water anymore.
    as
    I'm being mostly facetious when I suggest bringing the pre-Crisis universe back, as I know DC would never do it. But there is a lot of truth to my suggestion.

  8. #53
    Incredible Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    I would like to point this out also...

    We're hoping the same regime that has created FOUR separate, in-continuity Superman origins over the past 15 years can somehow come up with a clear and concise timeline for fans?

    Again, I remain very skeptical.

  9. #54
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    . . . Barry has everything at the expense of Wally . . .
    I think Wally gained more at the "expense" of Barry.


  10. #55
    Incredible Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I think Wally gained more at the "expense" of Barry.

    I agree. I like Wally, don't get me wrong. But I love pre-COIE Barry. And then were things that deliberately made Wally superior to Barry, and I'm sure his fans were fine with that. But make Barry better than Wally, and then there's a problem. Instead of, you know, them both being awesome (albeit with differing non-speed skillsets and personalities), the same speed, etc. As they were originally pre-COIE.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 07-19-2019 at 01:09 PM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
    Continuity is established in stories, not via charts and graphs. DC never stops making this mistake. Having a "Bible" for each character can be useful in establishing basic facts about them, but putting together a "history" that bears little or no resemblance to DC's actual publication history is a fool's errand.

    It all "happened". Some of it we talk about; some of it we don't. Some of it is important to what's going on now; some of it isn't. Some of it may flat-out contradict what's going on now - that's only a problem if it impedes the ability to tell a story today. The characters are bigger than any one continuity or timeline. Trying to stuff them into one lessens them.
    I can buy this approach. It's what they should have done in 1986. You don't want Superman hanging out with micro-kryptonians and super-horses, don't tell stories featuring micro-kryptonians and super-horses.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    I would like to point this out also...

    We're hoping the same regime that has created FOUR separate, in-continuity Superman origins over the past 15 years can somehow come up with a clear and concise timeline for fans?

    Again, I remain very skeptical.
    This is why I do my own head canon. As I think I've stated before in this thread, it's clear to me in my 35+ years of reading comics that stories I consider important don't always line up with what TPTB considers important (and vice versa).
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I can buy this approach. It's what they should have done in 1986. You don't want Superman hanging out with micro-kryptonians and super-horses, don't tell stories featuring micro-kryptonians and super-horses.
    And it's really that simple. I'm not sure why a company line reboot is required every five years to establish things like this.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    And it's really that simple. I'm not sure why a company line reboot is required every five years to establish things like this.
    I've also said that Plan B should have been a complete reboot, but in a New Earth (rather than blowing everything up). However, that continuity should have been established the way that Coco Loco describes below. A few facts and rules about each character, then let it accrete. Editorially steer it a bit, to keep it between the lines, but let 'er rip.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Loco View Post
    Continuity is established in stories, not via charts and graphs. DC never stops making this mistake. Having a "Bible" for each character can be useful in establishing basic facts about them, but putting together a "history" that bears little or no resemblance to DC's actual publication history is a fool's errand.

    It all "happened". Some of it we talk about; some of it we don't. Some of it is important to what's going on now; some of it isn't. Some of it may flat-out contradict what's going on now - that's only a problem if it impedes the ability to tell a story today. The characters are bigger than any one continuity or timeline. Trying to stuff them into one lessens them.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I've also said that Plan B should have been a complete reboot, but in a New Earth (rather than blowing everything up).
    Kinda sounds like Marvel's Ultimate line (or DC's Earth One books). Which is fine with me, but it seems as if interest always swings back to the original universe (or at least the universe previous).
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

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