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  1. #91
    Incredible Member TheNewFiftyForum's Avatar
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    Honestly, why bother? I like tight continuity as an idea, but writers won't be able to keep up with it and we'll just be back where we started. Things always turn into "anything the writer says happened, happened" anyway.
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  2. #92
    Ultimate Member Lee Stone's Avatar
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    My theory...

    I'm expecting 'Zero Hour Done Right' soon now.

    DC will keep fixing the timeline and then it unravels.
    And each time they do, the number of titles in the DCUniverse drops down a bit.

    So, in about 50 years when DC is down to just Batman and Detective they'll finally have no problem keeping continuity straight.

    Meanwhile, Didio did at least own up to the mistakes of New52. Good for him.
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  3. #93
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    I think the ship sailed as far as having a concrete timeline goes. Honestly at this point the vagueness and contradictions may as well be part of the charm. I say embrace it, and from now on give Donna Troy a new origin in every issue she appears in.

  4. #94
    Incredible Member TheNewFiftyForum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Which is where the Roy Thomases and Julie Schwartz' of the world really had value. Editors insisting that this stuff needed to makes some sense in the wider narrative of both the individual character, and the shared setting made for more consistent brands. That, however, doesn't seem to be the way it's done anymore.

    I suppose I'd be less pessimistic if the managerial cast of characters had changed more significantly since Flashpoint.
    Roy Thomas and Julie Schwartz had about ten years of published material and not even half the number of titles that we have now to keep track of though, it's an unfair comparison.
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  5. #95
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewFiftyForum View Post
    Roy Thomas and Julie Schwartz had about ten years of published material and not even half the number of titles that we have now to keep track of though, it's an unfair comparison.
    Nah, DC did this crap on purpose ever since DCYOU. Part of the conceit of it was that continuity didn't really matter and DC has more or less stuck to that since then. I guess, by now, they must have figured out that a lot of their fans don't really like it that way.

    If they were competent, and wanted to, they could keep much better control of their continuity. I mean, that is a big part of why you have editors.

  6. #96
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    . . . If they were competent, and wanted to, they could keep much better control of their continuity. I mean, that is a big part of why you have editors.
    I still have no idea what an "editor" is suppose to do these days, or why so many books seem need a "group editor", an "editor"-editor, and sometimes even an "associate editor" / "assistant editor" or three.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Here's a starting point for them:

    Of course, it dates back to 1994's Zero Hour, so it would need some retooling . . .
    This.
    Zero Hour got a number of things wrong (geez, the JSA got the rough end of the pineapple), but it was at LEAST done with a plan in place and it's been the timeline I've worked to since it appeared.
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  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by boltmonster View Post
    To make the timeline they have to start with the beginning of the New 52 and show who made their appearance first.

    Example: Batman #1 shows that Bruce is on his fourth Robin. Action Comics #1 shows Superman making his first appearance. Justice League #1 brings together the heroes for the first time.

    Action shows Superman's start. Superman #1 takes place in present day.

    Batman #1 and Superman #1 take place at the same time.

    They said that the present day is five years after the start. For this let's use Action #1 as the start.

    We know that Bruce could not have gone though four Robins in five years. That is too much even for Bruce. So let's apply the established timeline from previous continuity for Bruce and the four Robins.

    So we currently have Batman, Superman, and the Justice League.

    Timeline version one:
    Bruce becomes Batman. Operates in secret in Gotham City and the outside world knows nothing about him.

    Clark Kent arrives in Metropolis and reveals himself as Superman.

    Several months later Superman gets his Kryptonian armor that replaces his boots/jeans/t-shirt.

    Some time passes and Batman meets Green Lantern and Superman. With Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg they form the Justice League.

    Five years later: Batman #1, Superman #1
    ______________________________________

    This is just a starting point. As each title/single issue is applied, there is a better picture/idea of New 52 continuity.

    Timelines are complied from already released material, not beforehand.
    Fine.

    I can buy that.
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Which ones are more likely to be mentioned again in any future stories?
    Neither. Have you any idea how capricious editorial planning is at DC? The entire catastrophe that followed New 52 demonstrates that long term planning is simply beyond DC editorial because of shifting mandate and certain people suffering from collective ADHD jumping from one plan to another.

    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I still have no idea what an "editor" is suppose to do these days, or why so many books seem need a "group editor", an "editor"-editor, and sometimes even an "associate editor" / "assistant editor" or three.
    Group editors manage entire lines of books (superbooks, batbooks etc). They have always been there: Denny O'Neil, Mike Carin, etc.

    It seems like you have only just started reading the editing credits and assume that it's all new.
    Last edited by Bruce Wayne; 07-20-2019 at 06:47 PM.

  10. #100
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    Group editors manage entire lines of books (superbooks, batbooks etc). They have always been there: Denny O'Neil, Mike Carin, etc.

    It seems like you have only just started reading the editing credits and assume that it's all new.
    No, I've been noticing them for a while.

    Considering how many things aren't done correctly in comic book stories I've read, I really have to question what these people do that counts as "editing".

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Wayne View Post
    Neither. Have you any idea how capricious editorial planning is at DC? The entire catastrophe that followed New 52 demonstrates that long term planning is simply beyond DC editorial because of shifting mandate and certain people suffering from collective ADHD jumping from one plan to another.



    Group editors manage entire lines of books (superbooks, batbooks etc). They have always been there: Denny O'Neil, Mike Carin, etc.

    It seems like you have only just started reading the editing credits and assume that it's all new.
    It’s actually probably a good point to make that management’s critical weakness that killed the New 52 was less the idea in concept, or even the initial line-up of books and creators.

    It was how editorial handled the actual production of the New 52, especially as time went on. A lot of book and properties had good starts, or showed promise, or seemed to be mostly okay save for one or two things. The Superman editorial office, for instance, seems to have largely collapsed as a safe place to work and ran off just about every non-Morrison writer, with some of those fallen creators having issues released after they were fired that showed their potential as long term writers almost as though just to tease the audience.

    Teen Titans, as much as it became a giant black mark that forever sullied Scott Lobdell’s name for some fans, started off pretty strong with its companion book Superboy, and only became the bloated, insane monstrosity it’s reputation suggests after editorial demanded the Culling get overhauled into a major event and began making demands for more crossovers and story demands (not to mention torching Superboy seemingly just through sheer attrition of bad story ideas that several skilled writers tried their best to make work of not for the self-sabotaging nature of the demands.)

    Some books had great or good creative teams leave... only to reveal that DC’s staff had no good plan for replacing them, or just selected inferior replacements and failed any quality control over them, like what eventually happened to Flash, Wonder Woman, and Deathstroke. And of course, one of the most high profile failures of the New 52 was interrupting a successful run on Batwoman because editorial was terrified of a marriage - walking themselves into a seeming,y regressive message on an extremely progressive book.

    On top of that, some properties and books got off on a bad foot because of editorial seemingly nodding along with extremely leery decisions - like Catwoman and RHATO both having their first issues end in cheap, sleazy sex scenes that permanently marked both books (though RHATO managed to recover for its own fanbase.)

    And eventually, stuff like What the Fifty-Two and DC You ultimately killed off what good will the New 52 had.

    It’s more that DC Editors need an overhaul than the timeline does.
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  12. #102
    Astonishing Member HandofPrometheus's Avatar
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    The biggest news to come out of DC this week was that obvious New 52 statement. They literally accomplished nothing this week.

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Here's a starting point for them:

    Of course, it dates back to 1994's Zero Hour, so it would need some retooling . . .
    I always felt that timeline was too compressed. A mere four years for Dick Grayson as Robin and five years for Wally West as Kid Flash just didn't cut it for me. In my opinion, both Dick and Wally served their sidekick roles for at least six years before moving on to their adult identities.

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  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I always felt that timeline was too compressed. A mere four years for Dick Grayson as Robin and five years for Wally West as Kid Flash just didn't cut it for me. In my opinion, both Dick and Wally served their sidekick roles for at least six years before moving on to their adult identities.
    Some things about the time line seem also very odd. Like:
    - Speedy, Kid Flash and Aqua lad starting before Robin
    - Jason becoming Robin a Year after Dick became Nightwing (and after COIE), and dying directly in the same year
    - Tim becoming Robin Two Years after Jasons Death (instead of in the same Year)
    - and if you Stick with Dick turning 20 in COIE he would have started as robin at the age of 16, according to this timeline

    I think they would have probably had to add roughly 2-3 years to this timeline and had Dick start as Robin one year earlier to make it work.

    I tin in General the time line for Batman should roughly look like that:

    1-2 Years of him being solo
    6 Year with Dick as Robin
    2 Year with Jason
    4 Years with Tim
    x Years with Damian

  15. #105
    Incredible Member TheNewFiftyForum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampire Savior View Post
    Nah, DC did this crap on purpose ever since DCYOU. Part of the conceit of it was that continuity didn't really matter and DC has more or less stuck to that since then. I guess, by now, they must have figured out that a lot of their fans don't really like it that way.

    If they were competent, and wanted to, they could keep much better control of their continuity. I mean, that is a big part of why you have editors.
    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I still have no idea what an "editor" is suppose to do these days, or why so many books seem need a "group editor", an "editor"-editor, and sometimes even an "associate editor" / "assistant editor" or three.
    Editors haven't been keepers of continuity for a long time, that's a vestige from when new and old stories weren't readily available for a writer to look through when they wanted to check something. Editors today work as sounding boards with the writers and artists (some of your favorite things from any comic probably came from an editor rather than an artist or writer), coordinate writers, artists, inkers, colorists and letterers, tries to make sure issues are released on time every month, coordinate with other titles and various mandates from corporate, and lots of other things.
    As of now:
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