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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Lord Falcon's Avatar
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    Default Kyoukai vs Seta Sojiro

    Kyoukai from Kingdom takes on Sojiro from Rorouni Kenshin in the Shaolin temple. Who takes it?

  2. #2
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Sojiro... Like easily. He's way faster than Kyoukai.
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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Lord Falcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Sojiro... Like easily. He's way faster than Kyoukai.
    My understanding is that, while incredibly fast, most high tier fighters in Rorouni Kenshin are definitely not bullet timers. Kenshin needing a gatling gun to jam before he could rush in being a definitive example. When he and Sojiro had their second fight, they crossed about 20-30 feet in the span of time it took a drop of sweat to hit the ground from an average-sized woman's chin. And Sojiro ramped it up several notches after that.

    It doesn't seem to me really beyond what Kingdom gets up to. If anything Kingdom's high tiers carve through way more people at once.

  4. #4
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    My understanding is that, while incredibly fast, most high tier fighters in Rorouni Kenshin are definitely not bullet timers.
    Kenshin has deflected bullets long before getting his groove back, let alone learning the succession technique. Sanosuke deflected an artillery shell at close range. All of this was established as the movement happening after the shots were fired.

    Kenshin needing a gatling gun to jam before he could rush in being a definitive example.
    Extremely situational, this one, but largely PIS anyway, as he should have been able to move across the room before the guy firing the gun could perceive him anyway. Even so, in the comics at the time, he remarks on being able to deflect bullets IIRC. The idea of the scene is that A. It's a gatling gun, and B. The guy firing it is set up in a perfect position to use it where they have to come through a doorway and make it across an open space.
    Last edited by BitVyper; 07-19-2019 at 06:35 PM.
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  5. #5
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitVyper View Post
    Extremely situational, this one, but largely PIS anyway, as he should have been able to move across the room before the guy firing the gun could perceive him anyway. Even so, in the comics at the time, he remarks on being able to deflect bullets IIRC. The idea of the scene is that A. It's a gatling gun, and B. The guy firing it is set up in a perfect position to use it where they have to come through a doorway and make it across an open space.
    It should also be noted that Kenshin had just gotten done fighting Aoshi and had three bloody cuts on his chest at the time.

    Just saying.
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  6. #6
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    Yeah looking at the scene in the comic again, Kanryuu comes out of nowhere immediately after the fight with Aoshi and starts filling the room with lead while Kenshin is separated from his sword and Aoshi is still trying to get up. Oniwabanshu members jump in to protect Aoshi while the longarm dude gives Kenshin a chance to get his sword. The problem presented is more that Kenshin needs to get across the room to grab his sword while under fire. It's not really got anything to do with their immediate ability to dodge under even terms.

    Of course it's still PIS as Kenshin should be perfectly capable of just smacking Kanryuu with his saya or something, but whatever.
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  7. #7
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Falcon View Post
    My understanding is that, while incredibly fast, most high tier fighters in Rorouni Kenshin are definitely not bullet timers. Kenshin needing a gatling gun to jam before he could rush in being a definitive example. When he and Sojiro had their second fight, they crossed about 20-30 feet in the span of time it took a drop of sweat to hit the ground from an average-sized woman's chin. And Sojiro ramped it up several notches after that.

    It doesn't seem to me really beyond what Kingdom gets up to. If anything Kingdom's high tiers carve through way more people at once.
    You can make the argument that Ruroni Kenshin characters aren't that fast if you want, it doesn't change the fact that Kyoukai doesn't have feats that put her that far beyond comic book peak human.

    Soujiro and his contemporaries are straight metahuman.
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    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Lord Falcon's Avatar
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    I had forgotten about Kenshin deflecting the gatling bullets in that scene after the Aoshi fight. Perhaps I should have acknowledged it immediately to preempt the pile on.

    Strength and skill feats aside, speed alone is enough to determine the winner here.
    Last edited by Lord Falcon; 07-21-2019 at 09:32 PM.

  10. #10
    Rumbles Moderator Guy1's Avatar
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    Well since she's in the topic anyway, what are some of Kyoukai's feats? Just out of curiosity.
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  11. #11
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    Well since she's in the topic anyway, what are some of Kyoukai's feats? Just out of curiosity.
    Kyoukai is a trained assassin turned military commander in pre-unification China. She's been a master swordsman since the age of about 10 and made a living killing people from that point on.

    In terms of feats, Kyoukai routinely throws herself into situations wherein she holds off entire detachments of armed men alone or changes the course of a battle just by going off like a murder landmine and killing dudes until the opposing army has to back off a bit.

    In stat terms, speed and skill are her primary things. She's a bit above CBPH in terms of speed, people below her in speed have feats of cutting like five men to pieces before any of them can react and Kyoukai at max can kind of blitz them.

    There was an anime adaptation of Kingdom but it's not very good.
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  12. #12
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    Kyoukai is a trained assassin turned military commander in pre-unification China. She's been a master swordsman since the age of about 10 and made a living killing people from that point on.

    In terms of feats, Kyoukai routinely throws herself into situations wherein she holds off entire detachments of armed men alone or changes the course of a battle just by going off like a murder landmine and killing dudes until the opposing army has to back off a bit.

    In stat terms, speed and skill are her primary things. She's a bit above CBPH in terms of speed, people below her in speed have feats of cutting like five men to pieces before any of them can react and Kyoukai at max can kind of blitz them.

    There was an anime adaptation of Kingdom but it's not very good.
    on the flip side, kyoukai has a stamina issue. when she's going all out, she can turn dudes into chunky salsa by the dozens but she can't keep it up for long. she has improved but still a bit behind her man, shin, who is by now an utter wrecking machine.

  13. #13
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    on the flip side, kyoukai has a stamina issue. when she's going all out, she can turn dudes into chunky salsa by the dozens but she can't keep it up for long. she has improved but still a bit behind her man, shin, who is by now an utter wrecking machine.
    This sounds like you're trying to imply Shin has surpassed Kyoukai in combat generally. He's got more stamina than her because he doesn't use a quasi-magic trance technique that massively exerts his body to achieve low level superspeed.

    And, I mean, he's a hell of a fighter but he's not on the level of Kyoukai yet. Not really that close either.

    I just went through the story arc where Kyoukai hunts down Yuuren of the Shiyuu, a master assassin from the same clan as Kyoukai herself and the same abilities as her. Notable feats, Yuuren comes with a squad of like eight other Shiyuu assassins who can likewise use the dance (superspeed technique) and they all go for Kyoukai together.

    Kyoukai then outpaces them without even engaging her dance to do so. Once she engages her dance at like half capacity she is effortlessly taking them to pieces. When she and Yuuren are actually going at it later in the fight, the other assassins can't even see their movements any more and she has a gear above that as well.

    She's fast as hell and could take Shin to pieces in short order.

    Not on the level of Soujiro and his peers, but still really fast.
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  14. #14
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nik Hasta View Post
    This sounds like you're trying to imply Shin has surpassed Kyoukai in combat generally. He's got more stamina than her because he doesn't use a quasi-magic trance technique that massively exerts his body to achieve low level superspeed.

    And, I mean, he's a hell of a fighter but he's not on the level of Kyoukai yet. Not really that close either.

    I just went through the story arc where Kyoukai hunts down Yuuren of the Shiyuu, a master assassin from the same clan as Kyoukai herself and the same abilities as her. Notable feats, Yuuren comes with a squad of like eight other Shiyuu assassins who can likewise use the dance (superspeed technique) and they all go for Kyoukai together.

    Kyoukai then outpaces them without even engaging her dance to do so. Once she engages her dance at like half capacity she is effortlessly taking them to pieces. When she and Yuuren are actually going at it later in the fight, the other assassins can't even see their movements any more and she has a gear above that as well.

    She's fast as hell and could take Shin to pieces in short order.

    Not on the level of Soujiro and his peers, but still really fast.
    i meant stamina. my bad.

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