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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    i wanna say norman has the lower body count
    any continuity cops on top of that
    Frank Castle killed criminals and never any innocents, while Norman and Carnage have both killed in the hundreds and always innocent people. You can't equate them.

    In World War 2, the Allies killed more Nazi soldiers than Nazi soldiers killed allies...part of the reason why the good guys won. Likewise in the American Civil War, the Union killed more Confederate soldiers than vice versa. Only a moron or a totally evil person would equate or use that as judgement.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Why do we need this? Norman was the red goblin for about 5 minutes, and I can’t imagine a more unlikeable protagonist. Unlike Otto, I feel no sympathy for Norman, especially one that’s even crazier due to the Carnage symbiote.

    Also, is that guy on the cover using his baby as a human shield...? O...kaaay....
    I can think of a couple of worse protagonists then Norm. 1; Mephisto. 2: Red Skull. 3: Cletus Kasady. That said Norm as anything decent, I do not buy it. I think it is intetesting that he will be featured in ASM 30-31 with Kindred. Just another reason I am of the increasing opinion Kindred is Harry. Another one being Spencer referring to Kindred as HE.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Negative Zone View Post
    Pretty disappointed. I was hoping Norman would be gone for a while and not have a major appearance again. I also wanted the Red Goblin to be an isolated one-time thing.

    But hey if we got a rematch where Spidey actually overpowers Red Goblin I'll let that pass.
    Well apparently Norman already recovered and joined a group at some point.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Frank Castle killed criminals and never any innocents, while Norman and Carnage have both killed in the hundreds and always innocent people. You can't equate them.

    In World War 2, the Allies killed more Nazi soldiers than Nazi soldiers killed allies...part of the reason why the good guys won. Likewise in the American Civil War, the Union killed more Confederate soldiers than vice versa. Only a moron or a totally evil person would equate or use that as judgement.
    only in comics can someone like frank castle have never killed any innocents

    dude blows up a boat party for some crims, including the waiters. we get some throwaway line like “they were all bad people” so we can eat that delicious mass murderer cake and have it too
    troo fan or death

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    only in comics can someone like frank castle have never killed any innocents
    "Only in comics" covers stuff like Batman doesn't kill even if his powerful punches to the heads and so on in a lot of instances look fatal, or for that matter Spider-Man always holds back against non-powered people and so on.

    The fact is that narratively Frank hasn't killed innocents, and an argument to equate Punisher's violence to Norman's, i.e. Punisher killed more people and so on is missing the point. It's equating Punisher's victims with Norman's.

  6. #36
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    the punisher has killed tens of thousands of people without trial and um, not during wars, so marvel comics has no issue publishing titles about mass-murdering supervillain sociopaths, is the point

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    "Only in comics" covers stuff like Batman doesn't kill even if his powerful punches to the heads and so on in a lot of instances look fatal, or for that matter Spider-Man always holds back against non-powered people and so on.
    such is my point. comics are dumbtastic

    but it’s a tad easier to hand wave batman’s fists of fury as non lethal than castle murdering 40,000 people and not one innocent

    The fact is that narratively Frank hasn't killed innocents, and an argument to equate Punisher's violence to Norman's, i.e. Punisher killed more people and so on is missing the point. It's equating Punisher's victims with Norman's.
    yes, but did norman ever pumpkin bomb a waiter
    Last edited by boots; 07-21-2019 at 08:10 AM. Reason: then than thun
    troo fan or death

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    the punisher has killed tens of thousands of people without trial and um, not during wars, so marvel comics has no issue publishing titles about mass-murdering supervillain sociopaths, is the point
    weirdly enough kurt busiek was recently having a twitter debate with people on this. his position was that frank was a dangerous criminal serial killer and other dudes were trying to put castle on the same level as wonder woman
    troo fan or death

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    minis on sabretooth and carnage have been put out before, right? this is just more of that wholesomeness
    troo fan or death

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    weirdly enough kurt busiek was recently having a twitter debate with people on this. his position was that frank was a dangerous criminal serial killer and other dudes were trying to put castle on the same level as wonder woman
    I wouldn't argue with that but I doubt Busiek would agree with equating Castle to Norman Osborn or other actual legit villains.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I wouldn't argue with that but I doubt Busiek would agree with equating Castle to Norman Osborn or other actual legit villains.
    i’m not making any calls to authority there, just noting a similar conversation

    on the norm/frank thing...drawing comparisons and pointing out commonality can still be valid , it doesn’t have to be pound for pound equivalence.
    troo fan or death

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Why do we need this? Norman was the red goblin for about 5 minutes, and I can’t imagine a more unlikeable protagonist. Unlike Otto, I feel no sympathy for Norman, especially one that’s even crazier due to the Carnage symbiote.

    Also, is that guy on the cover using his baby as a human shield...? O...kaaay....
    He's facing away from Norman, so I doubt it. It looks like he's trying to keep the baby out of the line of fire.

    Greg Rucka did write a story where Frank accidentally killed an undercover FBI agent. Not something to be ignored, but nowhere on the same level of mayhem that Norman or Cassidy cause for their own amusement.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 07-21-2019 at 08:56 AM.

  13. #43
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    He's facing away from Norman, so I doubt it. It looks like he's trying to keep the baby out of the line of fire.
    ” babyshield” will get his own mini down the line
    troo fan or death

  14. #44
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boots View Post
    ” babyshield” will get his own mini down the line
    nah it's what they'll give steve when samcap returns, hype to see steve make the kid bounce off walls

  15. #45
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Aw... I was hoping this was Menace and not Normie. ;p

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