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  1. #16

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    Like a lot of Slott's work, Red Goblin is an idea that can work if someone other than him is writing it. So I am curious to see how this series will work.

    My one issue with Norman becoming Red Goblin is that in place of two villains (Goblin, Carnage) you now have one. I am against stories and concepts that whittles down and makes unusable one or more of Spidey's rogues at any time. Obviously there are exceptions and so on but I think after Norman's resurrection, you don't have an excuse as a writer/editor to try and do some lasting change and try and sell that as sticking.

    I think the PS4 game and its sequels will feature Red Goblin. The finale of the PS4 game implied that Harry Osborn is being bonded with Venom and that Norman is working on that. If you have Harry Venom, then eventually you are gonna need Norman being a bad guy and you will need Carnage. So Red Goblin makes sense.

  2. #17
    Incredible Member your_name_here's Avatar
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    Agree that Red Goblin would’ve been good if Slott had Spidey well and truly beat him full-powered.

  3. #18
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    I think Red Goblin suffers from symbiote overload of the past few years. They built it up as such a big deal, Norman Osborn bonding with Carnage, now things are really bad, etc. But I guess since we've seen so much symbiote stuff lately, that Norman and Carnage together doesn't seem like such a surprise. I don't think its bad, he's got a really cool design and of course is an extremely dangerous threat, but as the big "WOW" deal they wanted it to be pushed as, it doesn't hit as hard.

    Plus to me its kind of underwhelming as a "final boss" so to speak, because Carnage has never been involved at all in Slott's run, though that is exactly why he wanted to use him in the first place.

    I am curious what this story is going to be, since we know Norman had Carnage for only a relatively short amount of time, so what other hijinx could he have gotten himself into worthy of a one-shot.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen, West Coast Avengers, Ms. Marvel, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers, Sonic The Hedgehog

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inversed View Post
    I think Red Goblin suffers from symbiote overload of the past few years. They built it up as such a big deal, Norman Osborn bonding with Carnage, now things are really bad, etc. But I guess since we've seen so much symbiote stuff lately, that Norman and Carnage together doesn't seem like such a surprise. I don't think its bad, he's got a really cool design and of course is an extremely dangerous threat, but as the big "WOW" deal they wanted it to be pushed as, it doesn't hit as hard.

    Plus to me its kind of underwhelming as a "final boss" so to speak, because Carnage has never been involved at all in Slott's run, though that is exactly why he wanted to use him in the first place.

    I am curious what this story is going to be, since we know Norman had Carnage for only a relatively short amount of time, so what other hijinx could he have gotten himself into worthy of a one-shot.
    Red Goblin is something that needs a bigger scope than a 6 issue finale, not helped by the fact that Go Down Swinging deals with Osborn Family shenanigans that literally nobody cares about and which detracts from the central threat of Norman Carnage.

    I mean Norman becoming a Symbiote should be treated with the same depth that Doom bonding with the Beyonder was in Secret Wars'84 and Secret Wars'2015. Or Doom getting the Silver Surfer's surfboard in FF#57-60. But you didn't get any of that there.

    And Red Goblin's design seemed odd like those whiskers and so on. And why is the Carnage suit fusing with the glider too...that makes no sense.

  5. #20
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I think the PS4 game and its sequels will feature Red Goblin. The finale of the PS4 game implied that Harry Osborn is being bonded with Venom and that Norman is working on that. If you have Harry Venom, then eventually you are gonna need Norman being a bad guy and you will need Carnage. So Red Goblin makes sense.
    I think Red Goblin is more likely to show up in the third season of the cartoon, what with it being so Symbiote centric.

  6. #21
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by your_name_here View Post
    Agree that Red Goblin would’ve been good if Slott had Spidey well and truly beat him full-powered.
    YOSHIKAGE OSBORN: My Red Goblin has no weaknesses!
    PARKER HIGASHIKATA: Imma let you finish, but nah.

  7. #22
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    YOSHIKAGE OSBORN: My Red Goblin has no weaknesses!
    PARKER HIGASHIKATA: Imma let you finish, but nah.
    Don't you mean Parker Hirose and his Spider-Man Act Three powers ?

  8. #23

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    Uh. I really hope this isn't about him menacing and trying to kill a bunch of kids. seriously. full stop.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    https://www.marvel.com/amp/articles/...in-red-death-1



    "Publishing announcements are coming fast and furious out of San Diego Comic-Con 2019, and the retailer panel introduced several sensational stories that are coming to Marvel Comics! Just one of these stories is a look back at the reign of one of Spider-Man's most terrifying foes -- the Red Goblin AKA Norman Osborn, in possession of the Carnage Symbiote and the Goblin formula! The rowdy, raging Red Goblin will be revisited in RED GOBLIN: RED DEATH #1 by writers Pat Gleason, Rob Fee, and Sean Ryan with art by Pete Woods, coming in October!"


    Will this be cool? I'm pretty sure this is a one-shot. RED DEATH sounds pretty damn cool.
    Why do we need this? Norman was the red goblin for about 5 minutes, and I canít imagine a more unlikeable protagonist. Unlike Otto, I feel no sympathy for Norman, especially one thatís even crazier due to the Carnage symbiote.

    Also, is that guy on the cover using his baby as a human shield...? O...kaaay....

  10. #25
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Why do we need this? Norman was the red goblin for about 5 minutes, and I can’t imagine a more unlikeable protagonist. Unlike Otto, I feel no sympathy for Norman, especially one that’s even crazier due to the Carnage symbiote.

    Also, is that guy on the cover using his baby as a human shield...? O...kaaay....
    this company has had comics about the punisher every month for decades

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    this company has had comics about the punisher every month for decades
    Are you really comparing CarNorman to Frank Castle?

  12. #27
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Are you really comparing CarNorman to Frank Castle?
    i wanna say norman has the lower body count
    any continuity cops on top of that

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    i wanna say norman has the lower body count
    any continuity cops on top of that
    Red Goblin does indeed have the lower body count, however, Frank is the more original character (he isn't a warp of two other characters) just sayin'.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  14. #29
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    I think to expand on that would be that Red Goblin was derided as a concept even at the time, existed for essentially a hot second, and it's all done in service as acting as a final boss to a story as the big "final act" rather than being something that explored Norman as a character (also when you think about it a little it's Peter's Goblin Nation so been there done that). I'm not saying you can't have narrative junk food, but Red Goblin existed for only one reason and that was to be Slott's final boss. While I'm personally against a great deal of modern Norman "we have to top Gwen Stacy" Osborn and having hit his peak long ago as well as successor concepts and Goblins since, there is potential in Red Goblin.

    It's pretty much why I'm hesitant but will pick it up as opposed to being completely uninterested. There is an interesting development to be had here even it is retroactive.
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  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    I think to expand on that would be that Red Goblin was derided as a concept even at the time, existed for essentially a hot second, and it's all done in service as acting as a final boss to a story as the big "final act" rather than being something that explored Norman as a character (also when you think about it a little it's Peter's Goblin Nation so been there done that). I'm not saying you can't have narrative junk food, but Red Goblin existed for only one reason and that was to be Slott's final boss. While I'm personally against a great deal of modern Norman "we have to top Gwen Stacy" Osborn and having hit his peak long ago as well as successor concepts and Goblins since, there is potential in Red Goblin.

    It's pretty much why I'm hesitant but will pick it up as opposed to being completely uninterested. There is an interesting development to be had here even it is retroactive.
    Red Goblin and his "final boss" status in Slott's run reminds me of the Giant Space Flea From Nowhere video game trope -

    https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...leaFromNowhere

    "A Giant Space Flea from Nowhere is a boss with no relevance whatsoever to the actual plot, and who comes out of nowhere. They are frequently mindless creatures or beasts as opposed to actual characters and tend to appear at the end of unimportant plot threads, such as Fetch Quests.

    Compare the non-video game boss equivalent, the Big-Lipped Alligator Moment, which applies mostly to scripted scenes that came out of nowhere and have little or no mention of it afterward. If the boss and/or the battle is really weird and nonsensical even in the context of the game, there may be some overlap between the two tropes...."
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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