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  1. #1
    Amazing Member Kirika's Avatar
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    Default The Lord Of Nightmares (Slayers) vs Grand Zeno (DBS)

    The Lord Of Nightmares and all her glory vs Grand Zeno and all he has to offer.

  2. #2
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    LoN is a true omnipotent and omniscient. Zeno can erase universes but has shown no control over reality and appears to have no more awareness than an ordinary child. To learn something he has to be told or observe it in person. Zeno rules 12 universes (18 before he destroyed 6 of them) but it's unclear if he created them. LoN contains infinite universes inside herself.

    LoN just operates on a completely different level.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spamotron View Post
    LoN is a true omnipotent and omniscient.
    What is the most impressive show of power done by the Lord of Nightmares?

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    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siriel View Post
    What is the most impressive show of power done by the Lord of Nightmares?
    So, not comparing with Zeno or anything here, but just for information's sake: LoN has created multiple universes and beings who have the power to end those universes (IIRC this has actually happened at least once with Death Fog). A bit of LoN's power (and I say a bit because LoN's power is LoN's non-body and it's pretty verifiable that only the tiniest portion of LoN was actually IN Lina, since she floated away into the Sea of Chaos, which is the rest of her body/mind/power after) is stated by beings who should REALLY know what they're talking about, to be able to pretty easily destroy a universe if allowed to run rampant, but to the best of my knowledge we never actually see this.

    As for my opinion on the fight: Key factors here, *I* think, are that while Zeno has the more visible feat of actually ending a universe, it kind of stops there, and LoN is impossibly vaster than any single universe, as universes are simply things that extend from her "body." Being that her body is effectively the vast empty chasm at the end of all things, where universes sink into when they die, I don't think Zeno actually has what it takes to kill her. Comparatively, Zeno is totally lacking any kind of durability feats (unless I missed something). I'm sure we can at least float him being unkillable by anything up to and including the the strongest fighters who we've actually seen fight, but overall, I think that gives LoN the advantage if we're really going to compare omnipotents here. Either that or neither one of them has actually demonstrated the power to kill the other. Still, the fact that Zeno can be effectively copied by human-achieved time travel, makes me feel like he has the more defined limit to what he is.

    Really, I think we just don't see enough of what either could actually do.

    Edit: I guess I'll add that Lost Universe handily verifies that these are actually complete universes.
    Last edited by BitVyper; 07-20-2019 at 12:41 AM.
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  5. #5
    Astonishing Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Zeno has the durability feat of being completely unharmed from being at ground zero of the blast he released to destroy Future Trunks' local multiverse, for what it's worth.

    For my opinion, while the Lord of Nightmares has better feats and lore for being a cosmic being of unlimited scope and power, the Lord of All Things has better feats of being able to insta-kill entire universe with neglible effort, even while floating around in the void between universes, and have entire baseball team's worth of casual universe busters practically soil themselves just from his looking at them funny, with the implication that he's actually a lot less doofy than he appears to be, considering that the remote Tournament of Power turned out to be a secret test of character rather than just a way to entertain him as it originally seemed to be.

    Still, he explicitly exists within the multiverse, as temporal shenanigans that caused a new timeline to occur also caused a new Zeno to appear and stick around, whereas the LoN is the Golden Sea of Chaos within which multiverse randomly spawn, so she at least seems to be the more abstract being of the two.
    Last edited by The Drunkard Kid; 07-20-2019 at 04:46 PM.

  6. #6
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    Zeno has the durability feat of being completely unarmed from being at ground zero of the blast he replaced to destroy Future Trunks' local multiverse, for what it's worth.
    I'm not sure that's really a durability thing. It's hard to gauge, since it's not like it was an explosion or anything, just a rapidly expanding light and then the universe was gone. But then, I'd expect him to be able to survive universe busting fine anyway, since I doubt any of the GoDs could actually do him harm

    and have entire baseball team's worth of casual universe busters practically soil themselves just from his looking at them funny
    I mean, we're given to understand that two GoDs fighting will destroy a universe, but is there anything to suggest that it's something they can do casually?

    Still, he explicitly exists within the multiverse, as temporal shenanigans that caused a new timeline to occur also caused a new Zeno to appear and stick around, whereas the LoN is the Golden Sea of Chaos within which multiverse randomly spawn, so she at least seems to be the more abstract being of the two.
    Yeah, I'm kind of landing on "I'm not sure they can meaningfully interact" here.
    Last edited by BitVyper; 07-20-2019 at 01:28 AM.
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  7. #7
    Astonishing Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    There was the Goku vs. Beerus fight, where they were risking destroying the universe by just trading blows with one another until Goku figured out how to nullify that effect, and then the later reveal that Beerus was holding himself back massively and was basically just using that as an opportunity to have Goku learn that trick in the first place.

  8. #8
    Legendary God of Pirates Nik Hasta's Avatar
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    There's this clip here.



    As I recall this was vision into a parallel timeline that Lina got to see what happened if she cast Giga Slave incorrectly. When she asked what happened, which annoyingly the clip cuts off, she's told "Yeah, that universe isn't there any more because the Giga Slave obliterated it,"

    And, as noted, this is apparently just a minuscule fraction of the Lord of Nightmares' power.
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    Astonishing Member Lord Falcon's Avatar
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    Universe-busting may be a bit of an exaggeration for the Lord of Nightmares. The Slayersverse is populated by several worlds which rose out of the Sea of Chaos, each of which has it's own inhabitants. Lina Inverse, for example, clearly inhabits a single fantasy planet.

    There may be feats for more based on the Lost Universe sci-fi series, but how connected it is to the Slayersverse seems really unclear to me and apparently varies between anime and light novels.

  10. #10
    Friendship's Shockwave BitVyper's Avatar
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    The animes have an explicit connection, which at the very least, provides some evidence that the stars in Slayers-world's sky aren't just lights-in-the-firmament type stars, which we're given no reason to believe anyway; I only brought it up to head off the "world" thing, because the term "world" is plainly used pretty loosely here and there's things going on where the metaphysics don't match the physics, since the "worlds" are also said to be staves extending from the Sea of Chaos. Disgaea does the same thing.
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    Could they hurt Zeno? As mentioned he was fine after the universe was destroyed

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member The Drunkard Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitVyper View Post
    The animes have an explicit connection, which at the very least, provides some evidence that the stars in Slayers-world's sky aren't just lights-in-the-firmament type stars, which we're given no reason to believe anyway; I only brought it up to head off the "world" thing, because the term "world" is plainly used pretty loosely here and there's things going on where the metaphysics don't match the physics, since the "worlds" are also said to be staves extending from the Sea of Chaos. Disgaea does the same thing.
    Also, the Claire Bible vision that Nik posted showed many galaxies also bring encroached upon by the misfired Giga Slave.

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    IIRC, Zamasu and the protagonist in Dragon Ball Heroes want to take out Zeno, so they think it could be done with appropriate power ups.

  14. #14
    Incredible Member Kuro's Avatar
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    L-sama beats Zeno over the head with a shovel then hands him candy afterwords as an apology

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    IIRC, Zamasu and the protagonist in Dragon Ball Heroes want to take out Zeno, so they think it could be done with appropriate power ups.
    Heroes is just a little too wacky to be considered canon to anything.
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