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  1. #181
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBally View Post
    I want DC and WB Animations to take a chance and adapt Superman stories that were made before the 90s, stories like a Golden Age inspired movie based on the early Siegel and Shuster runs, Maggin stories like Last Son Of Krypton or Miracle Monday, or crossover related stories like the Legion's Great Darkness Saga or even Superman Vs Muhammad Ali.
    Kind of funny how they try to focus on contemporary-ish Superman stories with the exception of "Death of Superman" while they kept going back to 1980's Batman. Then again, I think 1980's Batman was probably Bruce Timm's favorite era so that's why we not only got adaptions of "Batman Year One," "The Dark Knight Returns," and "The Killing Joke," but they went out of their way to be as close as possible to panel-for-panel while everything else gets slight modifications.

  2. #182
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    For people who thought they might tone down Red Son Batman:


  3. #183
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    For people who thought they might tone down Red Son Batman:

    Bruh, that wasn't even 10 seconds.

    I've been joking for years that "Red Son" is one of the good versions of "Injustice." Not backing down from that.

    BTW, does this come out on DC Universe tomorrow? I've been waiting for stuff I wanted to watch to be available en masse, and if this is good it could be a tipping point.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 02-24-2020 at 05:39 PM.

  4. #184
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Bruh, that wasn't even 10 seconds.

    I've been joking for years that "Red Son" is one of the good versions of "Injustice." Not backing down from that.

    BTW, does this come out on DC Universe tomorrow? I've been waiting for stuff I wanted to watch to be available en masse, and if this is good it could be a tipping point.
    No. There is a 90 day waiting period after the physical release until it's on DC Universe now.

  5. #185
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    No. There is a 90 day waiting period after the physical release until it's on DC Universe now.
    Shucks. Oh well, thanks for the info.

  6. #186
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    For people who thought they might tone down Red Son Batman:

    Ayyy Timm didn’t shy away from Batmankov being a glorified terrorist. Pretty happy about that.

  7. #187
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    I read some spoilers/saw a video review.. this is going to be controversial.. I'm waiting until March to get a copy.

  8. #188
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    I read some spoilers/saw a video review.. this is going to be controversial.. I'm waiting until March to get a copy.
    I hope controversial in the same way the original was and not because they made any unnecessary changes...

  9. #189
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I hope controversial in the same way the original was and not because they made any unnecessary changes...
    They definitely changed some stuff, but apparently they kept most of the major beats in place.

    spoilers:
    The biggest change is that they didn’t include the comic book ending where Supes is revealed to be a descendant of Lex and Lois, making him a future human not an alien. I’m conflicted about this change. On one hand it really was a great twist, and I like it because it adds a little more to the premise than making it a straight up “what if Superman landed in X” story. But the change also gives the story a more upbeat and optimistic ending whereas the book ending is very damn cynical. Kal doesn’t just fail to save Earth, he’s the one who put it on the path to becoming Krypton and dying, him and Lex.
    end of spoilers

  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    They definitely changed some stuff, but apparently they kept most of the major beats in place.

    spoilers:
    The biggest change is that they didn’t include the comic book ending where Supes is revealed to be a descendant of Lex and Lois, making him a future human not an alien. I’m conflicted about this change. On one hand it really was a great twist, and I like it because it adds a little more to the premise than making it a straight up “what if Superman landed in X” story. But the change also gives the story a more upbeat and optimistic ending whereas the book ending is very damn cynical. Kal doesn’t just fail to save Earth, he’s the one who put it on the path to becoming Krypton and dying, him and Lex.
    end of spoilers
    Haven’t seen it yet but.....
    spoilers:
    I was actually low key hoping they would leave that out. It was too random a twist that had nothing to do with a story about Soviet Superman. Like you could have made that the plot twist of any other Superman story. But why this one?
    end of spoilers

  11. #191
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Well, I saw it today.

    spoilers:
    I haven't read Red Son in about 15 years, so it's not like the story is fresh in my mind, but the movie feels like a lot of things were changed. It's not to say it wasn't enjoyable, but it was distracting. I guess I'll be forever disappointed that whenever Bruce Timm makes a Batman adaptation, it's close to 1-to-1, but Superman stories aren't subjected to the same level of respect.
    end of spoilers

    Not bad, but the book is better.

  12. #192
    Incredible Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    I loved it. I thought it was a good adaptation but agree that some of the changes were a bit jarring. I definitely liked the comic ending a lot more. I'm really happy we've got an animated adaptation of this. My one gripe with the original story is that I wish they'd have just kept Batman as an American. It didn't make sense for him to be Russian too.

  13. #193
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    I think one change that was for the worse was that Superman himself offed Stalin, instead of Stalin's assassination by poison. It's like they wanted to accelerate the story in the style of Injustice or the Justice League episode "A Better World." To me, the story has a much different feel when there's a power vacuum created when the leadership is all of a sudden gone compared to when Superman creates it himself. Perhaps my memory of the story is off, but something about "Red Son" made it feel less cliched and tired next to other Evil Superman stories, in part because there wasn't such a sudden rush for power early on.
    end of spoilers

  14. #194
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Just finished watching it. I really loved it, I’d give it an A honestly. It’s definitely one of the best Superman movies.
    spoilers:
    Some things were changed for the better. WW leaving because she’s grown sick of Superman’s abuses instead of being mad he wouldn’t give her some Superdick is a much better change. WW hating all men was kind of stupid but whatever. Hot take: Changing the ending makes the story feel much happier. There’s hope that maybe Supes can find peace now that he’s stepped down from power instead of showing him as responsible for setting the Earth on the path to becoming Krypton. The voice acting was great all around. I though Isaacs did a fantastic job, and the man has now voiced Superman and Lex making him and Troy Baker the only two to voice the hero and their iconic villain. Speaking of Lex they’ve made him an outright hero rather than the book where he’s still the same jackass Lex but Supes is an anti villain so Lex is opposed to him not out of morals but principles. I’m ok with either take, I think both work fine. I loved the back and forth Lois and Supes had at the start of the movie, that was great. Wish we could’ve gotten more scenes between them but I get there’s a time limit. Also Brainiac’s robotic voice was really cool. Batman was great, I loved that Timm or whoever did wuss out, they showed the museum full of children getting blown up and then they included a shot of Superman looking at the bodies just to hammer it home.
    end of spoilers
    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    spoilers:
    I think one change that was for the worse was that Superman himself offed Stalin, instead of Stalin's assassination by poison. It's like they wanted to accelerate the story in the style of Injustice or the Justice League episode "A Better World." To me, the story has a much different feel when there's a power vacuum created when the leadership is all of a sudden gone compared to when Superman creates it himself. Perhaps my memory of the story is off, but something about "Red Son" made it feel less cliched and tired next to other Evil Superman stories, in part because there wasn't such a sudden rush for power early on.
    end of spoilers
    To me it actually worked because in the book Millar completely ignored the gulags existence and didn’t really address that at all, unlike how Morrison did address Overman’s feelings about the Nazi concentration camps. I can totally see Supes reacting like he did if he were to discover gulags and he’s clearly heartbroken over doing it. He still keeps the preference on brainwashing over murder later on so it didn’t really change him too much. Plus it’s Stalin, I was practically cheering when it happened lol.

    Also to address your complaint about Timm: He doesn’t always adapt Batman stories panel for panel. Red Hood is VERY different from the book. Hush obviously is VERY different from the book. And Timm was pretty good at adapting All-Star I thought, even if he cut the GOAT scene with Regan which sucked. But this movie was surprisingly faithful and I think it captured the core well.

    Ugh defending Bruce Timm in regards to Superman makes me feel ill lol.

  15. #195
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Also to address your complaint about Timm: He doesn’t always adapt Batman stories panel for panel. Red Hood is VERY different from the book. Hush obviously is VERY different from the book. And Timm was pretty good at adapting All-Star I thought, even if he cut the GOAT scene with Regan which sucked. But this movie was surprisingly faithful and I think it captured the core well.
    You could tell they regretted leaving that scene out because they did a tribute to it in Justice League: Doom, although it didn't end well for Superman.

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